Mesut Özil: Time to Move Ön?

[Football Manager]

this thread is non-stop Groundhog Day with all this exagerrated pro and anti Özil stuff

can't we all just agree that he is very inconsistent, and leave it at that?

I’m not anti Özil, I’m just not bias.
Every thing I’ve said are back with prove, evidence and explanation.

 

[Tir Na Nog]

this thread is non-stop Groundhog Day with all this exagerrated pro and anti Özil stuff

can't we all just agree that he is very inconsistent, and leave it at that?

That's the issue tho, should a guy who's as inconsistent as he is or certainly has been for a while now, be getting 350k a week? Between 2009 and 2015/16 he was absolutely world class, since then his world class performance have gradually declined until we get to the point where it's a rarity that we get a performance like what he produced vs Newcastle or in the first half of the season vs Leicester. I think part of the frustration is when you see performances like those two but there's such a gap between the performances. Meanwhile you have someone like Ramsey who was almost as out of favour as Özil was, come back into the side and put in so many big game performances and produce a lot of big moments. Was excellent vs Chelsea, scored away to Sp**s, was MOTM vs Man United and produced a stunning display in the Europa game vs Rennes when we needed a big performance.

I'm not particularly interesting in rewriting history or pretending that Özil wasn't world class a few years ago because he was, but the decline is there for all to see. We all want him to be the player he was a few years ago but it just isn't there anymore, certainly not a consistent enough basis.

 

[Football Manager]

He is really not, only Arsenal fans consider him as a top class player. Mostly, people think of him as something between very good player and occasionally world class (on his day) and that's what he is, so not overrated if you exclude our fans.

I never considered him a top class player.
Ask any Madrid fans, they will tell you Özil was very inconsistent.
He need to be feed to create chances. If he doesn’t assist, he is invisible.
A top class midfielders will still provide some good dribble, good combination play when they are not getting the numbers.
As I have said before, he is not lazy in defening, he is lazy in attacking.

 

[Jury]

I agree with you. I would have worded it a bit differently.

The team lost because of a (forced) pathetic selection by Emery. Özil and Mkhi were pants but Özil was subbed because reasons.

Our defense lost us the match, our wide open left flank would have cost us three goals in any other game.

To be honest, I was initially raging with Emery when I saw that midfield, but when the reasons came out, it made tragic sense. The only decision he may have got wrong with the benefit of hindsight, was whether to play Ramsey from the start or not. I would have packed the midfield with a rigid 4-5-1 or 3-6-1. No one player gets the blame anyway. Would have made a nice change for Mesut to show his best but Everton are tough at home these days. Hardest league defeat to stomach for a very long time. I havent felt as bad since the last time we were in a title race and lost with a few games to go. The stakes are very high.

 

[Vinci]

this thread is non-stop Groundhog Day with all this exagerrated pro and anti Özil stuff

can't we all just agree that he is very inconsistent, and leave it at that?

But I don't agree that he is inconsistent.

 

[BigPoppaPump]

there's still some people who think sanchez was a player here, while all he ever did after a good start was playing tennis on the pitch, on his own.
disgusting player who couldn't care less for Arsenal in his last 2 years...yet people call that class...

Alexis was our best player after RVP. He was a real attacker full of intensity, if some of our current players had the same drive we'd actually win more away games.

A lot of Arsenal fans hated him cos he was frustrated all the time here but I would be too if I was playing with a bunch of incompetent softies. You guys prefer players like Koscielny who get put in headlocks in European finals and cry when things go badly.

 

[SuperGoon]

I don't think anyone hated Sanchez's drive. He had a winners mentality.

The problem with him was he wasn't a team player. He'd demand the ball and then lose it 9/10. That and he never knew how to rest.

 

[Toby]

I don't think anyone hated Sanchez's drive. He had a winners mentality.

The problem with him was he wasn't a team player. He'd demand the ball and then lose it 9/10. That and he never knew how to rest.

That's the thing exactly. Towards the end Alexis was nothing but an inflated ego. He thought he was Ronaldo/Messi level but he just wasn't. And it wasn't just that maybe his teammates at Arsenal weren't up for his drive, he was just a cvnt. He disrupted the team on and off the field. It's really no surprise he's gone to absolute **** at United. At Arsenal he thought he was carrying the team, but the team was carrying him and his style as much in giving him the ball and creating space for him and so on. Once he let that thought get to his head and thought he could do it all on his own, that's when his downfall began.

 

[pigge]

But I don't agree that he is inconsistent.

Two games ago, would you agree he played well? Last game did he play ****?.

 

[Garrincha]

I miss Alexis.

Give the last few months a pass as deadline move collapse can **** with a players head. Sure the guy was a maverick lone ranger but averaged 30+ goal/assist contributions a season & in his way a leader.

 

[arsenefc]

Özil’s fan girls have preconceptions that he is a great player and is very good in attacking.
So whenever he doesn’t perform, they think the problem must lies in him not committing enough in defending.
But I‘ve never heard any other AM being criticised on that. Not enough defending for iniesta/modric? You don’t have to be a makelele in an AM position, don’t you?

So why is he the most inconsistent/overrated AM on different search engine, forums and video comments?
The truth is, his involvement in attack is lacking. Other AM actively help to open up space with dribbling skills, one-two passes and intelligent movement.
Özil on the other hand, like to stay away from plays, let his teammates to open up space for him, and just want to get involve the final pass, making the assist, although in some rare cases, space don’t need to be open up and he find a good pass.

Basically, he WAIT for the opportunity to come to create for the striker, who are waiting for the opportunity that he created. Whereas I want my team to be 2012 Spain, which every players are heavily involved in play.

its okay if you dont get it. Many dont. I just hope you dont hate him.

 

[Big Poppa]

He's a final third player who plays well only when those around him play well, fight for the ball for him and create space for him to do his thing.

He’s a server that needs service. Giving him the armband while Sokratis and Leno are on the pitch is laughable.

 

[BigPoppaPump]

I don't think anyone hated Sanchez's drive. He had a winners mentality.

The problem with him was he wasn't a team player. He'd demand the ball and then lose it 9/10. That and he never knew how to rest.

I agree he wasn't a team player and he was very selfish, but he'd only ever pass to Özil or Monreal which in my opinion is cos he didn't rate the other guys like Walcott or Giroud (can't blame him).

That's the thing exactly. Towards the end Alexis was nothing but an inflated ego. He thought he was Ronaldo/Messi level but he just wasn't. And it wasn't just that maybe his teammates at Arsenal weren't up for his drive, he was just a cvnt. He disrupted the team on and off the field. It's really no surprise he's gone to absolute **** at United. At Arsenal he thought he was carrying the team, but the team was carrying him and his style as much in giving him the ball and creating space for him and so on. Once he let that thought get to his head and thought he could do it all on his own, that's when his downfall began.

I agree he declined towards the end but that's because he was exhausted and his best years were behind him.

He was definitely carrying the team man come on. Look at our away record with him and without him and look how many away goals he scored in that time.

It's funny the 2 best Arsenal players of the 2010's are 2 of the most hated also.

 

[UpTheGunnerz]

Özil + 20 mil + subsidized wages for Havertz should do it

 

[krackpot]

I miss Alexis.

Give the last few months a pass as deadline move collapse can **** with a players head. Sure the guy was a maverick lone ranger but averaged 30+ goal/assist contributions a season & in his way a leader.

In a way, Özil and Alexis made each other the players they were. They are both lost now.

Although Özil is faring much better.

 

[blaze_of_glory]

Dutch study determines that Özil is the most impactful passer in the game (based on last season). Also found Leno to be the top rated keeper for distribution.

https://www.degruyter.com/downloadpdf/j/jqas.ahead-of-print/jqas-2018-0020/jqas-2018-0020.pdf

Abstract: Scouting departments at soccer clubs aim to discover players having a positive influence on the outcomes of matches. Since passes are the most frequently occurring on-the-ball actions on the pitch, a natural way to achieve this objective is by identifying players who are effective in setting up chances. Unfortunately, traditional statistics such as number of assists fail to reveal players excelling in this area. To overcome this limitation, this paper introduces a novel metric that measures the players’ involvement in setting up chances by valuing the effectiveness of their passes. Our proposed metric identifies Arsenal player Mesut Özil as the most impactful player in terms of passes during the 2017/2018 season and proposes Ajax player Frenkie de Jong as a suitable replacement for Andrés Iniesta at FC Barcelona.

Disagreement means denying science. #Factsandlogic.

 

[Football Manager]

Dutch study determines that Özil is the most impactful passer in the game (based on last season). Also found Leno to be the top rated keeper for distribution.

https://www.degruyter.com/downloadpdf/j/jqas.ahead-of-print/jqas-2018-0020/jqas-2018-0020.pdf

Abstract: Scouting departments at soccer clubs aim to discover players having a positive influence on the outcomes of matches. Since passes are the most frequently occurring on-the-ball actions on the pitch, a natural way to achieve this objective is by identifying players who are effective in setting up chances. Unfortunately, traditional statistics such as number of assists fail to reveal players excelling in this area. To overcome this limitation, this paper introduces a novel metric that measures the players’ involvement in setting up chances by valuing the effectiveness of their passes. Our proposed metric identifies Arsenal player Mesut Özil as the most impactful player in terms of passes during the 2017/2018 season and proposes Ajax player Frenkie de Jong as a suitable replacement for Andrés Iniesta at FC Barcelona.

Disagreement means denying science. #Factsandlogic.

Do you even have a degree? I have got my masters in economics and I can tell you social science is all about perspective. They are backed with facts, but facts that are selected so it look nice to support the perspective you have.

That study measures the “effectiveness” of a pass, of course Özil is going to look good. He is a player that being criticised on the lack of involvement in attacking play.
He let his teammates to open up space for him, stay away from buildups, waiting to be served, until he have the ball to execute the final pass.
So when he have the ball, space are already opened up, he doesn’t have to do all the dribbling, one-two, good movement to get pass opponent’s players, then of course his pass will be “effective”.

The bold text is what he was being critised for, and the underline text was what he is good at.
The study is valid in claiming on what he is good at. I agree with that.
But it doesn’t change the fact on what he is bad for.

If auba, Özil and messi all play in the same team. And every time auba and Özil would just wait for the ball.
Messi dribble pass 10 players and make a perfect pass to Özil, and Özil pass to auba and scored (2 v 1 with the keeper).
I ould write 3 different studies, 1 would have auba as the best player based on goal scored (fact), 1 would have Özil as the best player based on the assist (fact), and 1 would have messi as the best player based on the number of dribble (fact). So based on the different facts you choose, you will have different outcome.
But who actually deserves the credit?
Without looking at the data, I would say messi.

 

[hydrofluoric acid]

Dutch study determines that Özil is the most impactful passer in the game (based on last season). Also found Leno to be the top rated keeper for distribution.

https://www.degruyter.com/downloadpdf/j/jqas.ahead-of-print/jqas-2018-0020/jqas-2018-0020.pdf

Abstract: Scouting departments at soccer clubs aim to discover players having a positive influence on the outcomes of matches. Since passes are the most frequently occurring on-the-ball actions on the pitch, a natural way to achieve this objective is by identifying players who are effective in setting up chances. Unfortunately, traditional statistics such as number of assists fail to reveal players excelling in this area. To overcome this limitation, this paper introduces a novel metric that measures the players’ involvement in setting up chances by valuing the effectiveness of their passes. Our proposed metric identifies Arsenal player Mesut Özil as the most impactful player in terms of passes during the 2017/2018 season and proposes Ajax player Frenkie de Jong as a suitable replacement for Andrés Iniesta at FC Barcelona.

Disagreement means denying science. #Factsandlogic.

Ban everyone who disagree.

 

[Oh_Snap]

Dutch study determines that Özil is the most impactful passer in the game (based on last season). Also found Leno to be the top rated keeper for distribution.

https://www.degruyter.com/downloadpdf/j/jqas.ahead-of-print/jqas-2018-0020/jqas-2018-0020.pdf

Abstract: Scouting departments at soccer clubs aim to discover players having a positive influence on the outcomes of matches. Since passes are the most frequently occurring on-the-ball actions on the pitch, a natural way to achieve this objective is by identifying players who are effective in setting up chances. Unfortunately, traditional statistics such as number of assists fail to reveal players excelling in this area. To overcome this limitation, this paper introduces a novel metric that measures the players’ involvement in setting up chances by valuing the effectiveness of their passes. Our proposed metric identifies Arsenal player Mesut Özil as the most impactful player in terms of passes during the 2017/2018 season and proposes Ajax player Frenkie de Jong as a suitable replacement for Andrés Iniesta at FC Barcelona.

Disagreement means denying science. #Factsandlogic.

F*cking Ultras.

 

[blaze_of_glory]

Do you even have a degree? I have got my masters in economics and I can tell you social science is all about perspective. They are backed with facts, but facts that are selected so it look nice to support the perspective you have.

That study measures the effectiveness of a pass, of course Özil is going to look good. He is a player that being criticised .....

Yes I also have a social science degree They aren't impressive, anyone can get one if they can afford to go to school.

I would have thought the hashtag would indicate I wasn't being serious, but I guess not. My fault I suppose.