Theo Walcott: Sold to Everton

[Jasard]

Both Giroud and Walcott have been having shockers, might as well give Walcott a go though I fear he is capable of being more invisible than Giroud.

 

[Bearded Toaster]

How on earth can you compare Giroud to crouch??? What a horrible comparison lol I'm not saying we should play route one football as that isn't our play style. Yes stoke are playing better football than us at the moment but due to injuries and poor back-ups thats the main reason I think.

Plus this season has been an open yet weird one, chelski crumbling, manure doing nothing at all, Leicester top of the league and even the sp*ds are on top of us in the league albeit on goal difference. Overall, Giroud has done more/better than walcott has since they've both been here and I don't see walcott improving or "developing" into anything more than a speedy english version of Bendtner - 1 good game then 10+ sh!t games.

 

[Balance is key]

Add Theo's to that list .... 1 goal every 317 minutes played (there are CB's with a better strike rate) ... now you can argue that he's been recovering from injured for half of those games, but so what, that is still the sum of his contribution, and no it hasn't got any better as he's got older ...

Ok - but lets be fair - Lets add his games from when he was 20, not 17 - so from the 2010 season - 9204 minutes of PL play 44 PL goals - thats 209 minutes of play for every PL goal on top of that he got 39 PL assist to his name = a goal or assist for every 110 minutes of play

Giroud in his 4 years with us has 8974 minutes of PL play - 53 goals and 20 assist = a goal for every 169,32 minutes of play and a goal + assist for every 123 minutes of play

So yes walcott provides more than Giroud, even when played as a winger.

 

[Penn_]

The only person on that list I'd take over Giroud is Aguero and possibly Lukaku and Kane at a push. Costa, Sturridge, Remy and Bony I don't rate at all. Yes they are strikers but Giroud is a different striker/player to those mentioned. Walcott hasn't developed at all since he's been here. The only development I can see is his wages going up for doing very little.

You don't rate Costa and Sturridge

Bony aside, all the above strikers would suit our team more than Giroud does.

 

[US_Gooner]

Ok - but lets be fair - Lets add his games from when he was 20, not 17 - so from the 2010 season - 9204 minutes of PL play 44 PL goals - thats 209 minutes of play for every PL goal on top of that he got 39 PL assist to his name = a goal or assist for every 110 minutes of play

Giroud in his 4 years with us has 8974 minutes of PL play - 53 goals and 20 assist = a goal for every 169,32 minutes of play and a goal + assist for every 123 minutes of play

So yes walcott provides more than Giroud, even when played as a winger.

Some pretty bad math and reasoning here.

1. Walcott turned 20 on Mar 16, 2009, so even accounting for your unfounded and bizarre sample range, you must included the 2009-2010 season. Unless maybe you want to only count from when Theo was 21 instead?
2. On what basis do you discard Theo's earlier seasons from the analysis? Age? That's pretty odd, given that one of Arsenal's best players in the last decade posted awesome numbers here well before he was 20.
3. As long as you're not using Arsenal career stats, why not just compare for only this season then? Looks pretty bleak then, doesn't it.
4. Statistically speaking, Theo's 2012-13 season is the outlier. Discarding 2012-13 season as anomalous, Theo's min/g+a is truly dire.

For a much better statistical analysis, you would compute their min/g+a for each season and compare those side-by-side. Then Theo's 2012-13 season would stick out like a sore thumb, and everyone would realize that every Theo stat is dependent on his one golden season, and we could go back to arguing about if he'll ever reproduce that form. Because if he doesn't, then he's worse than every forward/wing we have.

And source your stats.

 

[tap-in]

He was made to look like a fool with the cameo vs Bournemouth.

He knows it, and will want to prove a point vs Leicester. For sure he's starting, and I foresee maximum effort from him. I don't see much of a reason not to start him.

You could be right about his cameo. I did wonder at the time, why even bother. He must have got less than 60 secs, maybe Wenger was making a point like you suggest. Lets hope he takes it on board and turns it into a positive.

 

[General]

I have a lot of time for Giroud but how could you not pick Costa over him? He's a c*nt but his dynamism is on a different level. Replace Costa with Giroud against Chelsea and Per doesn't get sent off as Giroud would've almost certainly had back to goal or running like he's on ice skates.

 

[Furious]

So the brilliant knock down to Özil which broke the deadlock and was ultimately the most important incident in the match ... that was 'poverty' ... some people just have no feckin' idea ...

Yes you dumb ****, one ****ing knock doesn't excuse him being poverty for 90 minutes, especially not later in the game, where it would've been a good idea to put on Theo.

 

[Furious]

A lot of recent games have been screaming for him but he rarely delivers.He's been asking for a kick up the backside ,I'm glad Wenger kindly obliged.

A lot of recent games have screamed for Giroud as well, what has he done? **** all.

Theo is a rubbish footballer, but at least he gives us movement and speed up front, which we needed late in the game yesterday where Giroud was strolling around like a lazy *****.

 

[Balance is key]

Some pretty bad math and reasoning here.

1. Walcott turned 20 on Mar 16, 2009, so even accounting for your unfounded and bizarre sample range, you must included the 2009-2010 season. Unless maybe you want to only count from when Theo was 21 instead?
2. On what basis do you discard Theo's earlier seasons from the analysis? Age? That's pretty odd, given that one of Arsenal's best players in the last decade posted awesome numbers here well before he was 20.
3. As long as you're not using Arsenal career stats, why not just compare for only this season then? Looks pretty bleak then, doesn't it.
4. Statistically speaking, Theo's 2012-13 season is the outlier. Discarding 2012-13 season as anomalous, Theo's min/g+a is truly dire.

For a much better statistical analysis, you would compute their min/g+a for each season and compare those side-by-side. Then Theo's 2012-13 season would stick out like a sore thumb, and everyone would realize that every Theo stat is dependent on his one golden season, and we could go back to arguing about if he'll ever reproduce that form. Because if he doesn't, then he's worse than every forward/wing we have.

And source your stats.

My stats are there for all to see on any tracking site you want - I have used transfermarkt since they are the most accurate.

how is it fair to compare a player of 17 and one who came here in his prime? should we compare Giroud at 17? that would get ugly for Giroud real fast.

we can take the last 4 years where they have played in the same team - and Walcott wasnt a 16 year old kid - sounds fair? I am sure you wont like the result though.

Last 4 years for the entire term Giroud has been here - since the 2012/13 season

That would be 4766 minutes of play for walcott with 27 goals and 21 assist - mostly as a winger = a goal and an assist pr 99,23 minutes of play (this is including this years **** run of form being played as LW)

Giroud is at 8974 minutes of PL play got 53 goals and 20 assist = a goal or assist for every 122.93 minutes of PL play

So for the entire four years Giroud has been here Walcott has had the higher output - and this is while being played mostly as RW

Please tell me how this is unfair - the same team - the same games - the same seasons, the same league - only Walcott has been played almost entirely as a winger.

Regarding this season - true walcott has been pretty **** as LW, being played out of position - nobody is arguing otherwise.

You are saying this season looks bleak? I am obviously not counting Theo being played out of position as LW - but head to head minutes played as CF with Giroud - since nobody wants Theo to play LW and he only covered the spot because Sanchez was Injured.

This season Giroud is at a goal and assist for every 113,27 minutes of PL play - slightly better than his last few years - but still far behind what we need from a striker - and we all know that his yearly slump has just started

Walcott is at 118 minutes of PL play as CF for every goal and assist this season - But Özil and Sanchez performed way above anything else we have seen from them in those 6 games walcott got as CF. (obviously this stat is useless based on the small amount of minutes Walcott has gotten to play as CF, but you asked for it)

Giroud dosnt stack up to anyone .- his output is pretty much worse than any decent striker in the league. - 12 current premier league strikers with better goal to minute ratio - all with better goal+assist ratio and all with better passing success - if we also starts to add wingers who outscores and out-assist Giroud - the list is going to be long.

 

[Coolin]

The current Theo situation puzzles me. Theo's meant to be a CF. He considers himself as such, and he started the season there, which means Wenger considers him as such. But it's been 2 or 3 months since he was last used up front. Fair enough Giroud's our preferred option but Theo doesn't even get minutes there off the bench.

I thought the cup tie with Burnley would've been the perfect game to stick him up top. Or even yesterday for the last 20 minutes. But instead we're putting all our eggs in Giroud's basket even when it's so blatant that our play has become stale and boring.

 

[US_Gooner]

My stats are there for all to see on any tracking site you want - I have used transfermarkt since they are the most accurate.

how is it fair to compare a player of 17 and one who came here in his prime? should we compare Giroud at 17? that would get ugly for Giroud real fast.

we can take the last 4 years where they have played in the same team - and Walcott wasnt a 16 year old kid - sounds fair? I am sure you wont like the result though.

Last 4 years for the entire term Giroud has been here - since the 2012/13 season

That would be 4766 minutes of play for walcott with 27 goals and 21 assist - mostly as a winger = a goal and an assist pr 99,23 minutes of play (this is including this years **** run of form being played as LW)

Giroud is at 8974 minutes of PL play got 53 goals and 20 assist = a goal or assist for every 122.93 minutes of PL play

So for the entire four years Giroud has been here Walcott has had the higher output - and this is while being played mostly as RW

Please tell me how this is unfair - the same team - the same games - the same seasons, the same league - only Walcott has been played almost entirely as a winger.

Regarding this season - true walcott has been pretty **** as LW, being played out of position - nobody is arguing otherwise.

You are saying this season looks bleak? I am obviously not counting Theo being played out of position as LW - but head to head minutes played as CF with Giroud - since nobody wants Theo to play LW

This season Giroud is at a goal and assist for every 113,27 minutes of PL play - slightly better than his last few years - but still far behind what we need from a striker - and we all know that his yearly slump has just started

Walcott is at 118 minutes of PL play as CF for every goal and assist this season - But Özil and Sanchez performed way above anything else we have seen from them in those 6 games walcott got as CF. (obviously this stat is useless based on the small amount of minutes Walcott has gotten to play, but you asked for it)

Giroud dosnt stack up to anyone .- his output is pretty much worse than any decent striker in the league. - 12 current premier league strikers with better goal to minute ratio - all with better goal+assist ratio and all with better passing success

Completely ignored everything I wrote.
Again backed up your whole premise with Walcott's 2012-13 season.
Again, Walcott's stats _totally_ reliant on 2012-2013.
Drop that season and bring your stats back then.

And this is the Walcott thread, not the Giroud thread; the question isn't how Giroud stacks up against other EPL strikers. That's over in the Giroud thread if you care. Here were talking about Theo Walcott. Feel free to compare Theo Walcott to anyone. Good deflection though.

 

[Balance is key]

Completely ignored everything I wrote.
Again backed up your whole premise with Walcott's 2012-13 season.
Again, Walcott's stats _totally_ reliant on 2012-2013.
Drop that season and bring your stats back then.

And this is the Walcott thread, not the Giroud thread; the question isn't how Giroud stacks up against other EPL strikers. That's over in the Giroud thread if you care. Here were talking about Theo Walcott. Feel free to compare Theo Walcott to anyone. Good deflection though.

But I did this year for you, guess you still didnt like the result- you only want the games he was forced to play out of position to count?

but fine - lets for some reason remove his best ever season and still include all of the games he has played as LW this season.

That would have him at 2368 minutes of PL play for the last 2,5 season - 21 goals and assist = 112,77 minutes of play for every goal and assist

funny how his output is still better than Girouds if we exclude his best ever season while Giroud has been here and Include his worst ever season.

people should stop hating on Walcott - he is doing great (just not as a LW player - he is utter **** there : O)

be it over the last 6-5-4-3 or even last season, together or alone: the output from walcott is still better than Girouds - given how productive he has been on our RW it is bloody weird for wenger to drop him for Ox and Campbell

 

[skip spence]

The current Theo situation puzzles me. Theo's meant to be a CF. He considers himself as such, and he started the season there, which means Wenger considers him as such. But it's been 2 or 3 months since he was last used up front. Fair enough Giroud's our preferred option but Theo doesn't even get minutes there off the bench.

I thought the cup tie with Burnley would've been the perfect game to stick him up top. Or even yesterday for the last 20 minutes. But instead we're putting all our eggs in Giroud's basket even when it's so blatant that our play has become stale and boring.

Agree that it's very odd to say the least that Theo hasn't started any games up front or even gotten minutes as sub in January. Especially since Giroud has looked like he could use a rest since December. Walcott must be fuming and frankly he has some right too although he's not helping his cause with his poor recent form.

 

[fabo]

The only person on that list I'd take over Giroud is Aguero and possibly Lukaku and Kane at a push. Costa, Sturridge, Remy and Bony I don't rate at all. Yes they are strikers but Giroud is a different striker/player to those mentioned. Walcott hasn't developed at all since he's been here. The only development I can see is his wages going up for doing very little.

Kane is a level above Giroud tbh.

 

[fabo]

The current Theo situation puzzles me. Theo's meant to be a CF. He considers himself as such, and he started the season there, which means Wenger considers him as such. But it's been 2 or 3 months since he was last used up front. Fair enough Giroud's our preferred option but Theo doesn't even get minutes there off the bench.

I thought the cup tie with Burnley would've been the perfect game to stick him up top. Or even yesterday for the last 20 minutes. But instead we're putting all our eggs in Giroud's basket even when it's so blatant that our play has become stale and boring.

Wenger doesn't rate Theo as a ST, or at least doesn't think he offers what he wants in the role. Hence rarely ever playing him there.

Funny then that he justifies not buying a ST because he had 'Giroud, Theo, Welbeck, Sanchez'. Classic Wenger spin. We have one ST and a bunch of options who he doesn't actually trust to play the role week in, week out. Because they are not ST's.

 

[SuperGoon]

Kane is a level above Giroud tbh.

And still young enough to improve considerably.

 

[TheSage]

My stats are there for all to see on any tracking site you want - I have used transfermarkt since they are the most accurate.

how is it fair to compare a player of 17 and one who came here in his prime? should we compare Giroud at 17? that would get ugly for Giroud real fast.

we can take the last 4 years where they have played in the same team - and Walcott wasnt a 16 year old kid - sounds fair? I am sure you wont like the result though.

Last 4 years for the entire term Giroud has been here - since the 2012/13 season

That would be 4766 minutes of play for walcott with 27 goals and 21 assist - mostly as a winger = a goal and an assist pr 99,23 minutes of play (this is including this years **** run of form being played as LW)

Giroud is at 8974 minutes of PL play got 53 goals and 20 assist = a goal or assist for every 122.93 minutes of PL play

So for the entire four years Giroud has been here Walcott has had the higher output - and this is while being played mostly as RW

Please tell me how this is unfair - the same team - the same games - the same seasons, the same league - only Walcott has been played almost entirely as a winger.

Regarding this season - true walcott has been pretty **** as LW, being played out of position - nobody is arguing otherwise.

You are saying this season looks bleak? I am obviously not counting Theo being played out of position as LW - but head to head minutes played as CF with Giroud - since nobody wants Theo to play LW and he only covered the spot because Sanchez was Injured.

This season Giroud is at a goal and assist for every 113,27 minutes of PL play - slightly better than his last few years - but still far behind what we need from a striker - and we all know that his yearly slump has just started

Walcott is at 118 minutes of PL play as CF for every goal and assist this season - But Özil and Sanchez performed way above anything else we have seen from them in those 6 games walcott got as CF. (obviously this stat is useless based on the small amount of minutes Walcott has gotten to play as CF, but you asked for it)

Giroud dosnt stack up to anyone .- his output is pretty much worse than any decent striker in the league. - 12 current premier league strikers with better goal to minute ratio - all with better goal+assist ratio and all with better passing success - if we also starts to add wingers who outscores and out-assist Giroud - the list is going to be long.

Complete and utter bollocks .... Walcott has the highest output? what the feck' are you smoking .... 2015/16 Giroud 18 goals, Walcott 5 goals

Walcott and Giroud and every other feckin' player are paid EVERY FECKIN' WEEK to play for Arsenal football club ... to pick the guy who plays just 50% of matches, or comes on for 5 minutes and gets a tap in, and then compare that with the numbers for a guy who plays 90 minutes nearly every week? .. it's feckin' laughable ...

Walcott 10 seasons 53 EPL goals ... that's one goal every 7.1 games
Giroud 4 seasons 53 EPL goals ... that's one goal every 2.8 games

Forget feckin' injuries, if you're not available or you've been benched then you're not feckin' contributing, the actual goal scoring numbers represent what each player has actually contributed to the club on the pitch in terms of goals ... I'm feckin' sure I know which one looks better to me .....

Under your stupid logic, playing just one game in 10 years and scoring 2 goals would give you a 10 year average of a goal every 45 minutes ... thus making you the best striker in the world, do you see how feckin' daft that thinking is?

FYI: Why do you think The Golden Boot and every other goal scoring award are made on goals scored over the length of a competition? or over goals scored in an entire season? never based on against minutes played? Because you don't win feck' all on minutes played, it's what you contribute for the entire game/season that matters ...

Do you think Walcott's 5 goals are a more useful contribution to Arsenal football club than Giroud's 18 goals this season? ... seriously do you? ... because that's the point you're trying to argue .....

 

[Rain Dance]

My stats are there for all to see on any tracking site you want - I have used transfermarkt since they are the most accurate.

how is it fair to compare a player of 17 and one who came here in his prime? should we compare Giroud at 17? that would get ugly for Giroud real fast.

we can take the last 4 years where they have played in the same team - and Walcott wasnt a 16 year old kid - sounds fair? I am sure you wont like the result though.

Last 4 years for the entire term Giroud has been here - since the 2012/13 season

That would be 4766 minutes of play for walcott with 27 goals and 21 assist - mostly as a winger = a goal and an assist pr 99,23 minutes of play (this is including this years **** run of form being played as LW)

Giroud is at 8974 minutes of PL play got 53 goals and 20 assist = a goal or assist for every 122.93 minutes of PL play

So for the entire four years Giroud has been here Walcott has had the higher output - and this is while being played mostly as RW

Please tell me how this is unfair - the same team - the same games - the same seasons, the same league - only Walcott has been played almost entirely as a winger.

LOL I like how people twists stats like this...

Walcott has very little playing time, during the last 4 years of course his output is going to be higher.

Do you want to see how majestic Kelechi Inaecho stats? 1 goal in every 86 minutes while Aguero is 1 goal in 101 minutes
Using your stick I can prove that Aguero is a lower quality player than Kelechi

 

[Gooner_girl14]

Wow Walcott has only scored 5 goals this season? That's lower than I thought, and he's played more this season than probably the last two. Such a poor output for our longest serving player, especially one Wenger himself has developed as a younster.

 

[Santi's Left Foot]

Complete and utter bollocks .... Walcott has the highest output? what the feck' are you smoking .... 2015/16 Giroud 18 goals, Walcott 5 goals

Walcott and Giroud and every other feckin' player are paid EVERY FECKIN' WEEK to play for Arsenal football club ... to pick the guy who plays just 50% of matches, or comes on for 5 minutes and gets a tap in, and then compare that with the numbers for a guy who plays 90 minutes nearly every week? .. it's feckin' laughable ...

Walcott 10 seasons 53 EPL goals ... that's one goal every 7.1 games
Giroud 4 seasons 53 EPL goals ... that's one goal every 2.8 games

Forget feckin' injuries, if you're not available or you've been benched then you're not feckin' contributing, the actual goal scoring numbers represent what each player has actually contributed to the club on the pitch in terms of goals ... I'm feckin' sure I know which one looks better to me .....

Under your stupid logic, playing just one game in 10 years and scoring 2 goals would give you a 10 year average of a goal every 45 minutes ... thus making you the best striker in the world, do you see how feckin' daft that thinking is?

FYI: Why do you think The Golden Boot and every other goal scoring award are made on goals scored over the length of a competition? or over goals scored in an entire season? never based on against minutes played? Because you don't win feck' all on minutes played, it's what you contribute for the entire game/season that matters ...

Do you think Walcott's 5 goals are a more useful contribution to Arsenal football club than Giroud's 18 goals this season? ... seriously do you? ... because that's the point you're trying to argue .....

Injuries aside Walcott has been played out of position. That's the point. With Özil and Ramsey often roaming it means that a significant defensive shift has to be put in that area. Theo's strength is running in behind playing on the shoulder of the last man, we've seen it time and time again when he's played up top and that's without a doubt where he should be now.

 

[Gael Clea-show]

Complete and utter bollocks .... Walcott has the highest output? what the feck' are you smoking .... 2015/16 Giroud 18 goals, Walcott 5 goals

Walcott and Giroud and every other feckin' player are paid EVERY FECKIN' WEEK to play for Arsenal football club ... to pick the guy who plays just 50% of matches, or comes on for 5 minutes and gets a tap in, and then compare that with the numbers for a guy who plays 90 minutes nearly every week? .. it's feckin' laughable ...

Walcott 10 seasons 53 EPL goals ... that's one goal every 7.1 games
Giroud 4 seasons 53 EPL goals ... that's one goal every 2.8 games

Forget feckin' injuries, if you're not available or you've been benched then you're not feckin' contributing, the actual goal scoring numbers represent what each player has actually contributed to the club on the pitch in terms of goals ... I'm feckin' sure I know which one looks better to me .....

Under your stupid logic, playing just one game in 10 years and scoring 2 goals would give you a 10 year average of a goal every 45 minutes ... thus making you the best striker in the world, do you see how feckin' daft that thinking is?

FYI: Why do you think The Golden Boot and every other goal scoring award are made on goals scored over the length of a competition? or over goals scored in an entire season? never based on against minutes played? Because you don't win feck' all on minutes played, it's what you contribute for the entire game/season that matters ...

Do you think Walcott's 5 goals are a more useful contribution to Arsenal football club than Giroud's 18 goals this season? ... seriously do you? ... because that's the point you're trying to argue .....

I'm usually with you and agree with most of ehat you post, but this is utter rubbish!

Wenger likes playmakers and he plays Giroud as he contributes as a playmaker, involving in the midfield and increasing the number of bodies.

Theo is not his ideal CF and hence does not play there.

About his early career affecting his stats, he was played as a suber sub winger for about 5-6 years, injured for about 2 years and first teamer for a bit.

He makes our midfielders look more threeatening and our game more attacking.

Giroud is the french Andy Caroll, who acts as a lump for 9/10 games as he isn't motivated and hungry enough.

When he goes into lamp post mode, I'd rather we just play with 10.

Couple of games with Theo as CF this season,
Leicester, Stoke, United

Sanchez scored 5 goals in those 3 games

With Giroud and Sanchez becomes our worst player.

With Theo at CF for those games, he scored just 2 goals but we as a team looked better.

With Giroud at CF, how many games have we been convincing?