• ! ! ! IMPORTANT MESSAGE ! ! !

    Discussions about police investigations

    In light of recent developments about a player from Premier League being arrested and until there is an official announcement, ALL users should refrain from discussing or speculating about situations around personal off-pitch matters related to any Arsenal player. This is to protect you and the forum.

    Users who disregard this reminder will be issued warnings and their posts will get deleted from public.

Alexis Sanchez: Off to the Old Toilet

Status
Not open for further replies.

Johnny_Blaze

Established Member
I don't think Alexis has been playing as a traditional CF for us - I liken his role to that of Messi's at Barca.

I'm not buying that. It's a convenient thing to say because we don't see Sanchez running behind defences or stretching central defenders out of position.

The Argie clunge has Neymar and Suarez alongside him. You're not telling me Wenger sees Özil and Walcott (two players who have never been consistent goalscorers season after season) as his Neymar and Suarez?? Bartha play a completely different formation. We've been playing 4-4-2, whereas they're a 4-3-3. Sanchez is supposed to be a CF.

The setup is closer to Atletico's front two, and Sanchez is meant to be our Griezmann...except Griezmann is a far better and more natural central striker, and a better all-round footballer as well.

I'm not really seeing what tangible difference the "Sanchez as a central striker" experiment has made. Giroud's biggest criticism was he didn't score in the big league games. Sanchez has scored one goal in our matches against Chelsea, Man City, Liverpool, Sp**s and Man Utd. He's been lauded for his effort and closing down in some of these games, yet rarely had a chance, and as if running around and closing players down made up for not scoring, or doing other striker-y things.

The only tangible difference, really, has been we've beaten the likes of Hull, Sunderland and West Ham by 4-1 or 5-1 instead of 2-1 in the Giroud years.

This is more of a criticism of Wenger rather than Sanchez. He moved his best wide forward out of position and bottled out of buying a top striker.
 

Johnny_Blaze

Established Member
1. Ferguson's Man Utd. The only silky generation he had was in the Ronaldo/Tevez/Rooney days. The rest of his teams were grafters above everything else. This accounts for most of the 90s, 00s and half of this decade so far.

2. Simeone's Atletico

3. Leicester last season

4. Chelsea this season has been mostly about a warrior-like tendency from Costa, Moses and Kante. I'm willing to bet that Chelsea will win the league without scoring even one goal of the season contender.

5. The Milan teams in their hey day.

When you mentioned Barca, Real and Bayern, those are the only teams in the world with both aggression and technique in spades. This is the Holy Grail, but players like this are super rare and expensive. If circumstances force you to choose one, we should be choosing with a bias towards aggression.

You're overcompensating for Wenger's tactical ineptitude - you've just listed teams that are well coached. Everyone agrees having a strong shape and tackling hard are some of the most important aspects of the game, but having a team of ten workhorses won't get you anywhere.

The languid and lethargic Arsenal we see too often every season has been a theme of this club for over ten years, and there's one man responsible for it.
 

Sykes

Active Member
I'm not buying that. It's a convenient thing to say because we don't see Sanchez running behind defences or stretching central defenders out of position.

The Argie clunge has Neymar and Suarez alongside him. You're not telling me Wenger sees Özil and Walcott (two players who have never been consistent goalscorers season after season) as his Neymar and Suarez?? Bartha play a completely different formation. We've been playing 4-4-2, whereas they're a 4-3-3. Sanchez is supposed to be a CF.

The setup is closer to Atletico's front two, and Sanchez is meant to be our Griezmann...except Griezmann is a far better and more natural central striker, and a better all-round footballer as well.

I'm not really seeing what tangible difference the "Sanchez as a central striker" experiment has made. Giroud's biggest criticism was he didn't score in the big league games. Sanchez has scored one goal in our matches against Chelsea, Man City, Liverpool, Sp**s and Man Utd. He's been lauded for his effort and closing down in some of these games, yet rarely had a chance, and as if running around and closing players down made up for not scoring, or doing other striker-y things.

The only tangible difference, really, has been we've beaten the likes of Hull, Sunderland and West Ham by 4-1 or 5-1 instead of 2-1 in the Giroud years.

This is more of a criticism of Wenger rather than Sanchez. He moved his best wide forward out of position and bottled out of buying a top striker.
No way is Griezmann a better allround player than Alexis...I think Alexis is more creative and skillful than Griezmann. Griezmann scores more.
 
N

NotAUserName

Guest
There was a thread in a different forum (Redcafe I think) about which player swap would improve both sides. The more I think I about it, the more I realize than an Alexis-Aguero swap would really work. Alexis would fit Pep's false-9 system to a T, not to mention that he is also hardworking and likes to be involved in the play. Aguero on the other hand in front of Özil would also get the best out of both. A striker with exceptional movement but also doesn't like to get involved much giving Özil all the creative freedom in the final third.
 

El Duderino

That's, like, your opinion, man.
Moderator
There was a thread in a different forum (Redcafe I think) about which player swap would improve both sides. The more I think I about it, the more I realize than an Alexis-Aguero swap would really work. Alexis would fit Pep's false-9 system to a T, not to mention that he is also hardworking and likes to be involved in the play. Aguero on the other hand in front of Özil would also get the best out of both. A striker with exceptional movement but also doesn't like to get involved much giving Özil all the creative freedom in the final third.

Sadly, once Aguero set foot at Colney he'd pull that hamstring of his every other second.
 

kopzilla

Always Negative
If its money that he wants, why can't we give it?

Is it his fear of not winning the title?

Whatever, his reason to stall, I can't see him signing with a sulking expression.

I think the boy is gone...:(

In any case, if we are going to be perennial top 4 finishers without titles, it will matter little who we replace him with.

This loss would be unbearable because he is a gem of a player.
 

Optimistic

Active Member
The Argie clunge has Neymar and Suarez alongside him.
Except when people are comparing Sanchez to Messi, they are more likely referring to when Messi played as a false 9 under Pep Guardiola. At that time Messi didn't have Neymar and Suarez alongside him, but Villa and Pedro. Iniesta played as an AM, Xavi played a little further back from him as a CM, and Busquets was right at the back of midfield as a CDM/deep-lying playmaker. Sound familiar?

We've been playing 4-4-2, whereas they're a 4-3-3.
We only really fall back into a 4-4-2 when we're defending. I guess Wenger thinks two banks of 4, with the wingers coming back to aid the midfielders, is a solid enough way of defending. On paper I'd agree. It hasn't worked out so well recently though.

I'm not really seeing what tangible difference the "Sanchez as a central striker" experiment has made. Giroud's biggest criticism was he didn't score in the big league games. Sanchez has scored one goal in our matches against Chelsea, Man City, Liverpool, Sp**s and Man Utd.
Actually Sanchez only scored in one of those matches. He closed down Cahill for a solo goal against Chelsea, then later assisted Özil; he assisted Walcott's goal against City; he played no part in any of our 3 goals against Liverpool; our only goal against Sp**s was an own goal; and Giroud converted Ox's cross the get the draw against Utd. He did score our only goal against Everton though.

The only tangible difference, really, has been we've beaten the likes of Hull, Sunderland and West Ham by 4-1 or 5-1 instead of 2-1 in the Giroud years.
Which is nothing to shake a stick at, even if the net result at the end of the season is unaffected.

I don't know. I liked Sanchez as CF, although it wasn't perfect. I know everyone loves the excuse, "we played a different Chelsea," but regardless of the subsequent tactical changes they've made, Chelsea are a top side and when we played them with Sanchez up front, we humiliated them.

Our worst games with Alexis leading the line were the games where we lost the midfield battle. I remember against Utd our midfield was so ineffective Sanchez was sometimes the player in front of the back four, just because it was the only way of getting the ball forward. He didn't play well in these games but that's because we weren't getting the ball up to him in the CF position.

If Giroud continues to score goals and win us games, I'll have no complaints. But personally, I hope we haven't seen the last of Alexis up front.
 

blaise

Well-Known Member
Things could have been done, but this doesnt look good, other clubs will see us haggling, they ll approach Alexis, City and Juve probably already did.

If we lose him and Wenger stays I d say we will maybe be able to buy suitable replacement, but just maybe, without Wenger I highly doubt it. If we lose Alexis we ll lose more than a player. Our reputation will take a big, big hit. We will be seen again more as a stepping stone than a contender in the eyes of a world, and it will be very hard to attain another close to world class player. Ask Liverpool and Tottenham how their search for these players is going?

Lots of people are deluded that we are in Chelsea, United, City category when it is about attracting genuine talent, we neither overpay or offer some security that we will do everything in transfers to assure we will compete.
 

Gooner Zig

AM's Resident Accountant
Trusted ⭐

Country: Canada
Lots of people are deluded that we are in Chelsea, United, City category when it is about attracting genuine talent, we neither overpay or offer some security that we will do everything in transfers to assure we will compete.

It seems as though you're the deluded one.

Here are the big signings we've made since 13/14

Özil
Alexis
Cech
Xhaka
Mustafi

United have spent hundreds of millions of pounds and they still haven't found a player of Alexis' or Özil's stature (RE: performances on the pitch). City have spunked like 150m on Otamendi/Mongala/Stones yet Mustafi is clearly a better player/prospect than all three.

Which "big star" have Chelsea bought recently? They bought Kante from Leicester who had a RC of roughly 20-25m.

There are plenty of top, top players out there, we don't compete exclusively against City/United/Chelsea for every player on the planet ffs.
 

blaise

Well-Known Member
It seems as though you're the deluded one.

Here are the big signings we've made since 13/14

Özil
Alexis
Cech
Xhaka
Mustafi

United have spent hundreds of millions of pounds and they still haven't found a player of Alexis' or Özil's stature (RE: performances on the pitch). City have spunked like 150m on Otamendi/Mongala/Stones yet Mustafi is clearly a better player/prospect than all three.

Which "big star" have Chelsea bought recently? They bought Kante from Leicester who had a RC of roughly 20-25m.

There are plenty of top, top players out there, we don't compete exclusively against City/United/Chelsea for every player on the planet ffs.

You completely missed my point, you are talking about value for money which is Wenger master of, not the club or Gazidis.,Out of those you mentioned only Alexis is in this bracket near to world class.

We wont be able to sign another Alexis or players like de Bruyne, Hazard, Costa, Reus, they ll swoop in, we ll sign players hoping to become first class like Xhaka, Mustafi and wait for them to develop, same as years before, just now players with higher profile, and if they develop in near world class, they ll leave.

It could be another Fabregas, RVP thing, precedent is a dangerous thing, why would a team let go its best player? (he is not even crying usual things about his desire to play for Barca, Real)

I like Mustafi, but people tend to overreact over short period of time for good or for bad ( yet with Rmasey there is always time), we have yet to see who ll be the better player.

And with overpaying I meant salaries mainly
 
Last edited:

Gooner Zig

AM's Resident Accountant
Trusted ⭐

Country: Canada
You completely missed my point, you are talking about value for money which is Wenger master of, not the club or Gazidis.,Out of those you mentioned only Alexis is in this bracket near to world class.

We wont be able to sign another Alexis or players like de Bruyne, Hazard, Costa, Reus, they ll swoop in, we ll sign players hoping to become first class like Xhaka, Mustafi and wait for them to develop, same as years before, just now players with higher profile, and if they develop in near world class, they ll leave.

I didn't miss your point at all.

Did you read where I said we don't compete with City/Chelsea/United for every player that exists? I understand the aforementioned can go into territories we can't financially but, we don't compete in a market where the only players are the ones that exclusively get bought by those financial powerhouses.

United with their vast resources haven't been able to sign any truly world class players.
 

blaise

Well-Known Member
It is not just those clubs, Barca, Real, Bayern, Psg, even Atletico already blow us out of water. At the moment we can beat Pool, Tottenham, maybe Dortmund, but they are not far away.

They beat us signing Mikhi easily if you believe insiders, we wouldnt have a chance with Ibra (think almost everybody here wanted him).
 

Iddi

Active Member
Please give Sanchez the £200,000 a week he is asking for. The guy deserves it just on his endeavour. What a fighter. Pay the man.. :)
 

Gooner Zig

AM's Resident Accountant
Trusted ⭐

Country: Canada
It is not just those clubs, Barca, Real, Bayern, Psg, even Atletico already blow us out of water. At the moment we can beat Pool, Tottenham, maybe Dortmund, but they are not far away.

They beat us signing Mikhi easily if you believe insiders, we wouldnt have a chance with Ibra (think almost everybody here wanted him).

Just stop :lol:
 

blaise

Well-Known Member
290,000k, I believe we were offering these 200k, at least Guardian said something like that before end of last season
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom