Cobra Kai Havertz: No Mercy

[PrinzPoldi]

Technically Havertz is very good, and if this was FIFA or Football Manager he would be great in that role in midfield...but there are some intangibles in real life that make him a much better forward than a midfielder.

Being more comfortable with you back to goal upfront, as opposed to having to deal with turning and passing forwards constantly which he seems to struggle with (he doesn't spin his head to scan enough when playing deeper, you need that as a midfielder)

Positional he's very poor in midfield, as outside of winning duels he has no idea where to stand to either help us defensively really or link play in our attack, he's the main reason Martinelli has been poor this season and why our midfield looked so poor compared to last season in the first half of the year.

Rice is just better at all these things than Kai as a midfielder, even though Kai is more skillful...our improvement as a tram since Kai moved up top and aey from the middle shows this, we are just controlling games better offensively and defensively.

And I just think you waste his natural talents by forcing him in that 8 role, tbh...his hold up play and aerial threat is top class, both are made more redundant the deeper you play him.

We have something that works very well now, don't change it and just keep letting to develop.

You are still judging his performance in August to November 2023.

Well, agree to disagree.
I am not saying he will flourish as a left 8 for sure, I am just saying he deserves another chance, after getting his form and confidence back; and now showing more of his abilities on the ball.

 

[Blankety Blank]

So what happens now this summer, he was brought in as a midfielder but that has failed and not good enough to be a 25+ goal season striker?

Who is good enough to be a 25+ goal a season striker & not diminish output too much in other areas
Ok last top striker at this club was Auba. 50m back in the day when that was big big money
If you put peak Auba in this team I'm not sure it makes us good enough to win the league. Sure he may get 25+ He is quick scores great goals but does he have the allround game needed.
You may need a freak like Haaland or a worldie/someone with the allround game of TH14 to guarantee both.

Not too many out there.

 

[fute]

The chance at 8 isn't necessary when he is flourishing at the 9. It just isn't worth it to explore. Not for him nor for the team. The team matters most.

His skills match well for the 9. They don't for the 8.

In retrospect, Arteta didn't need to remake him. Just surround him with better talent and having a better club atmosphere and structure was all he needed.

Through Jesus' injuries and lack of finishing, and Eddie not really solidfiying his spot in the rotation, Kai's emergence has been a breath of fresh air and has played a big part in the way we are finishing this PL title race.

 

[El Duderino]

Technically Havertz is very good, and if this was FIFA or Football Manager he would be great in that role in midfield...but there are some intangibles in real life that make him a much better forward than a midfielder.

Being more comfortable with you back to goal upfront, as opposed to having to deal with turning and passing forwards constantly which he seems to struggle with (he doesn't spin his head to scan enough when playing deeper, you need that as a midfielder)

Positional he's very poor in midfield, as outside of winning duels he has no idea where to stand to either help us defensively really or link play in our attack, he's the main reason Martinelli has been poor this season and why our midfield looked so poor compared to last season in the first half of the year.

Rice is just better at all these things than Kai as a midfielder, even though Kai is more skillful...our improvement as a tram since Kai moved up top and aey from the middle shows this, we are just controlling games better offensively and defensively.

And I just think you waste his natural talents by forcing him in that 8 role, tbh...his hold up play and aerial threat is top class, both are made more redundant the deeper you play him.

We have something that works very well now, don't change it and just keep letting to develop.

I'm surprised you took the time to write this all this and not respond with a Simpsons meme, given the difference between the two is so obvious.

 

[El Duderino]

In retrospect, Arteta didn't need to remake him. Just surround him with better talent and having a better club atmosphere and structure was all he needed.

Telling how he didn't want none of his old mates from Chelsea at Arsenal when asked recently.

You'd figure he would name at least someone given Arsenals perchant for signing Chelsea players.

 

[El Duderino]

Telling how he didn't want none of his old mates from Chelsea at Arsenal when asked recently.

You'd figure he would name at least someone given Arsenals perchant for signing Chelsea players.

How long until Edu highjacks Thiago Silva to Fluminense?

 

[Blankety Blank]

I think Kai deserves one more shout to be our LCM next season.
He definitely shows more technical skills than Rice to take this job.

Harsh think Rice is improving & showing better tekkers. Looking like a top box to box midfielder. Tbh I can see why it may be tried again to see if a confident Kai can do the job. On paper it would be great if it worked. However was it not last done against Villa and that was the last league game we lost?

I'm not saying it could never work but so far it has to be said he has looked
far better as a false 9 than in the LCM role.

 

[PrinzPoldi]

Harsh think Rice is improving & showing better tekkers. Looking like a top box to box midfielder. Tbh I can see why it may be tried again to see if a confident Kai can do the job. On paper it would be great if it worked. However was it not last done against Villa and that was the last league game we lost?

I'm not saying it could never work but so far it has to be said he has looked
far better as a false 9 than in the LCM role.

can't disagree.

 

[Sanchez11]

Just seen this on fb

 

[Buhry]

He is not good at progressing or driving the ball forwards in a meaningful way.

The whole system would have to change for him to work at 8 and from what we're seeing it points to getting a Partey replacement as better use of funds.

Like Martinelli, you need to use his pace and positioning to your advantage.

Agreed. But he is good at holding up the ball and somehow seems to have good vision when in that role with his back more to the goal. At lcm I think his passing has been really crap but as cf it's often been very good. He isn't suited at all to the midfield role but he plays well in the CF role.

 

[Blankety Blank]

Havertz getting his flowers on MNF.

Hardest working striker in the league, most distance covered & Carragher highlighting how massive his contribution is off the ball

 

[El Duderino]

Agreed. But he is good at holding up the ball and somehow seems to have good vision when in that role with his back more to the goal. At lcm I think his passing has been really crap but as cf it's often been very good. He isn't suited at all to the midfield role but he plays well in the CF role.

Which is my point, his skill set if fine up top or when he drops back for a bit. Anything more than that, at least with the midfield and fullback options at hand, and it's a no go.

 

[Hleb's Sirush]

Now his confidence is back I think he would be better at lcm than earlier in the season. But there is absolutely no reason to change him from cf. Firstly because he is playing extremely well up front, where his attributes are more suited.

Secondly because it is easier to recruit a midfielder than a cf. The market is dead in that position. Toney for £80m? He wouldn't even provide more than Havertz, in fact in several areas Havertz is better. Someone like Osimhen who could cost up to £120m and again I'm not sure he would even be an upgrade on Havertz. Heck a project like Hojlund cost £72m. Easier to find a no6/no8 and that's where our priorities should be along with a winger(s).

 

[RandomHero84]

I'd personally at this point keep him as our first choose CF and be looking for the profile of a wide forward with a bit of "x factor" as you'd call it, who brings some guaranteed goals.

He just adds so much to us both in attack and defence, the stats and the eye test don't lie. I don't want to see him in 8 and we've talked to death on why that is. We look borderline unbearable with him at CF and both Partey and Rice with Ødegaard.

Trossard has been great but he clearly should be utilised the way he already has been going forward. I want an explosive, unpredictable left sided player who can guarantee goals, and a more solutions for it we don't have Ødegaard. That's where I want the budget spent. Drop off in quality from a couple of first teamers Is too severe.

My main exception to this in terms of a new CF is if it's someone like Isak, who to my eyes can do it all. Seems a stretch to think we'd get him though.

I never thought I'd end up saying this but the best Arsenal right now is Kai up front, and the only way i can see that being someone different is if we bring in genuine world class talent.

I don't think names like Gyokeres etc are gonna do that.

 

[Maybe]

For a 100M, we would get a marginally better CF, but that same money would give us massive improvements over Jorginho and Martinelli so it's a no brainer to keep Havertz where he is now

 

[RunTheTrap]

I think Kai deserves one more shout to be our LCM next season.
He definitely shows more technical skills than Rice to take this job.

God! Free my people from stupidity.

 

[RunTheTrap]

Now his confidence is back I think he would be better at lcm than earlier in the season. But there is absolutely no reason to change him from cf. Firstly because he is playing extremely well up front, where his attributes are more suited.

That’s not how confidence works. Havertz is not a midfielder. No amount of a confidence boost will turn him into a quality midfielder.

 

[PrinzPoldi]

God! Free my people from stupidity.

he WAS a midfielder, in case you don't know.
he started as a MIDFIELDER.

Yes, he played mostly as striker for Chelsea, and now doing good for us as CF/Striker/false 9, BUT HE STARTED AS A MIDFIELDER.

He does not play like Ode or Rice or whoever, does not mean he was not and will not be a good midfielder.

 

[fute]

he WAS a midfielder, in case you don't know.
he started as a MIDFIELDER.

Yes, he played mostly as striker for Chelsea, and now doing good for us as CF/Striker/false 9, BUT HE STARTED AS A MIDFIELDER.

He does not play like Ode or Rice or whoever, does not mean he was not and will not be a good midfielder.

Kai started from the bottom now he's here.

 

[DJ_Markstar]