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Life after Wenger | Ornstein: Arsenal set to appoint Unai Emery

Do you think Emery will get the club back on an upwards trajectory?


  • Total voters
    170
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Jury

A-M's drunk uncle
That's two in two days. First @bingobob and now you. I'm ticking them off slowly on my AM posters spreadsheet entitled 'Crush the hype'. :lol:

@Jury 'll crack one day. When the new manager is 6th for the 3rd running and he's started drinking that bottle of Antigua rum at lunchtime, he'll look back and think @Makingtrax, @Tir Na Nog , @GDeep, @bingobob, @Trilly, @hydrofluoric acid were right all long, Wenger wasn't that bad, f*** me, who would have guessed it. :lol:
You're already on the turn! We've seen little signs of you finally realising it's over. It's been gradual, but it's definitely happening. I'm just waiting for the 'Wenger needs to go for his own good--he's too good for us' end game statement. Shouldn't be long now. :lol:
 

bagel70

Member
Funnily enough, you say 'sugar daddy' . . I read an article about Lt Col Sir Henry Norris who said he was just like Lord Sugar but without the humour and self deprecation.

In some respects he was very like our current owners because in 1910 he kept George Morrell, the manager, in a job because he was good at looking after money, even though the fans wanted him out. :lol:

I don't think Sir Henry Norris is anything like our Kroenke board. Maybe Usmanov.

As I mentioned earlier, keeping managers past their sell-by date is an Arsenal tradition. We've had two managers die as our manager and before Wenger, Graham, Terry Neill and arguably even Bertie Mee were all kept a few years too long so thats just an Arsenal tradition irrespective of who is on our board.

But Kroenke, is really a new breed of owner that simply didn't exist before the 1980s or so in the US. For US sports clubs with no relegation some owners realized they didn't really have to put in time and money into winning the league in order to make money. Famous here is that racist owner Sterling from the LA Clippers NBA team. He bought the LA Clippers for 12 million in 1981. Sold them for 2 BILLION! And that whole time the Clippers were one of the worst, if not the single worst, NBA team. They never focused on winning, were a complete joke competitively for long periods yet because they were always in the NBA, they simply appreciated in value. That profit the slumlord owner made was insane if you think about it. Plus the investment is far, far safer than the stock market or investing in tech start ups.

So thats the model Kroenke is following not the Norris model. In 2012, Kroenke's on-paper profit was already about 300M! That was five years ago and every club has appreciated quite a bit. Some estimates have Kroenke's asset profit already over 600M! And that is probably on the low side. Kroenke is the most risk-averse type of sports owner that exists. He has no love for the Arsenal. He is very different than previous versions of our board because our family owners and shareholders like Dein loved our club with all their heart. Kroenke doesn't love Arsenal at all. We are just another asset in his portfolio and that is very different than not just Norris but even owners like the Glazers that care more about success on the pitch.
 

bingobob

A-M’s Resident Hunskelper
Trusted ⭐

Country: Scotland
Just quoted what you said, no dilution. It's just banter.

Shame you felt you had to justify your position, it just highlights the peer pressure on this forum.

Wenger won't be lingering outside the top 4. He'll be gone.
Was more I felt for @Jury didn't want the poor lad thinking he was fighting the good fight by himself. More often than not me him and @Trilly are on the same page.

@teamsoutheast I've said he has done reasonably well. He has and he has had his chance to take us forward but @Trilly got it right with the glass ceiling. I don't want our stagnation to turn to regression but if we do regress then I'd rather it be because we tried to progress rather than staying as we are and watching teams over take us.

I do think a change in management will see us kick on but I am prepared for the worst and prepared to accept it if it happens. Whoever takes over has a huge job on their hands not because we are a poor team but because Wenger's hands are in every pie. There is no manager in the game the will ever have had the responsibility Wenger has. It doesn't matter if you're as experienced as Mourinho or as green as Henry. It is an enormous void to fill
 

Jury

A-M's drunk uncle
I didn't think whether Wenger has been good for the club was being debated... Of course he has been. He could have done even better for the club if he retired in 2014 though.

The greatest and hardest thing any manager can do after achieving as much with one club as Wenger has, is to accept you've no longer got what it takes and know when it's time to go.
 

Country: Iceland
I always wonder how much it hurt for Wenger when Fabregas joined Chelsea... Still remember Fabregas comments about Wenger not answering his calls or messages.
 

Hunter Zolomon

Well-Known Member
I don't understand this logic. You are willing to have another manager come in, drop out of the top 6 (not even top 4), and give him years to rebuild his squad but yet, not allow Wenger 2 more years to build upon what has arguably been a pretty successful 5 years domestically?
erm, if that means a title then yeah, as you wenger in guys have said, wenger is consistent, so we know for the next 5 years he will consistently not challenge for the title, so unless you are happy with that please keep hoping he stays as manager.
 

teamsoutheast

Well-Known Member
Was more I felt for @Jury didn't want the poor lad thinking he was fighting the good fight by himself. More often than not me him and @Trilly are on the same page.

@teamsoutheast I've said he has done reasonably well. He has and he has had his chance to take us forward but @Trilly got it right with the glass ceiling. I don't want our stagnation to turn to regression but if we do regress then I'd rather it be because we tried to progress rather than staying as we are and watching teams over take us.

I do think a change in management will see us kick on but I am prepared for the worst and prepared to accept it if it happens. Whoever takes over has a huge job on their hands not because we are a poor team but because Wenger's hands are in every pie. There is no manager in the game the will ever have had the responsibility Wenger has. It doesn't matter if you're as experienced as Mourinho or as green as Henry. It is an enormous void to fill

I'm not sure how you can regard coming 4th, 3rd and 2nd respectively in the last 3 seasons while picking up back to back FA Cups on the way and becoming the most successful club in the history of the prestigious FA Cup as staganation to be honest.
 

Jury

A-M's drunk uncle
I'm not sure how you can regard coming 4th, 3rd and 2nd respectively in the last 3 seasons while picking up back to back FA Cups on the way and becoming the most successful club in the history of the prestigious FA Cup as staganation to be honest.
Domestic cup competitions are not really a measure of progress. In our case, it most certainly is not. League positions at the end of the season, unless you've made huge strides each time, aren't either, particularly if you haven't won the thing--never mind the absence of context. You're reaching mate.

At best, we've stagnated. Some might call it 'consistency' :rolleyes:
 
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Tir Na Nog

Changes Opinion Every 5 Minutes

Country: Ireland
Thats not a lot...

One 96000 pounds/week for 4 years contract costs around 20 millions...

And we are yet to make new contracts to lot of players...

AST couldn't be bothered explaining this though, they know what educating the masses will do, they must instead keep them dumb and ignorant so that all they'll see is 120 million and assume that's all just transfer fees.
 

Preacher

Always Crying
I think, by saying 'contract renewals', they meant various signing bonus and fees. Wages and transfers budgets should be separated from each other.
 

Gooner Zig

AM's Resident Accountant
Trusted ⭐

Country: Canada
I'm not sure how you can regard coming 4th, 3rd and 2nd respectively in the last 3 seasons while picking up back to back FA Cups on the way and becoming the most successful club in the history of the prestigious FA Cup as staganation to be honest.

Okay mate :lol:
 

Kingslayer

Forza Milan
I think, by saying 'contract renewals', they meant various signing bonus and fees. Wages and transfers budgets should be separated from each other.

One year's wages are (apparently) factored into the transfer budget, with subsequent years being added to the overall expenses with every new financial year. That's for new players, though. Not sure how it works for renewals.
 

Makingtrax

Worships in the house of Wenger 🙏
Trusted ⭐

Country: England

Player:Saliba
I don't think Sir Henry Norris is anything like our Kroenke board. Maybe Usmanov.

As I mentioned earlier, keeping managers past their sell-by date is an Arsenal tradition. We've had two managers die as our manager and before Wenger, Graham, Terry Neill and arguably even Bertie Mee were all kept a few years too long so thats just an Arsenal tradition irrespective of who is on our board.

But Kroenke, is really a new breed of owner that simply didn't exist before the 1980s or so in the US. For US sports clubs with no relegation some owners realized they didn't really have to put in time and money into winning the league in order to make money. Famous here is that racist owner Sterling from the LA Clippers NBA team. He bought the LA Clippers for 12 million in 1981. Sold them for 2 BILLION! And that whole time the Clippers were one of the worst, if not the single worst, NBA team. They never focused on winning, were a complete joke competitively for long periods yet because they were always in the NBA, they simply appreciated in value. That profit the slumlord owner made was insane if you think about it. Plus the investment is far, far safer than the stock market or investing in tech start ups.

So thats the model Kroenke is following not the Norris model. In 2012, Kroenke's on-paper profit was already about 300M! That was five years ago and every club has appreciated quite a bit. Some estimates have Kroenke's asset profit already over 600M! And that is probably on the low side. Kroenke is the most risk-averse type of sports owner that exists. He has no love for the Arsenal. He is very different than previous versions of our board because our family owners and shareholders like Dein loved our club with all their heart. Kroenke doesn't love Arsenal at all. We are just another asset in his portfolio and that is very different than not just Norris but even owners like the Glazers that care more about success on the pitch.
That was interesting. Didn't know about the Clippers.

Of course if Kroenke were to sell his shares and pull out to realise his asset profit he'd take a huge hit with the exchange rate at the mo, thanks to Brexit. So I guess he'll hang on for a while longer in the hope the shares will rise further.
 

VancouverCanuck

Well-Known Member

Country: Canada
I'm not sure how you can regard coming 4th, 3rd and 2nd respectively in the last 3 seasons while picking up back to back FA Cups on the way and becoming the most successful club in the history of the prestigious FA Cup as staganation to be honest.
Do you actually watch our matches mate? And do you seriously claim that our performances on the pitch has improved in the last 3 seasons?
 

DanDare

Emoji Merchant and Believer-In-Chief
Trusted ⭐

Player:Saliba
Thats not a lot...

One 96000 pounds/week for 4 years contract costs around 20 millions...

And we are yet to make new contracts to lot of players...

Yes but that's only £5m next year which is how it's accounted. So a new contract on that weekly salary would subtract £5m from £120m not £20m.

£120m plus sales of players is decent enough. If we added 2 x £50m starters on £200k a week and then sold squad options and replaced with 0 net spend we'd be in a good position to be honest. Lots to work with.
 

bagel70

Member
That was interesting. Didn't know about the Clippers.

Of course if Kroenke were to sell his shares and pull out to realise his asset profit he'd take a huge hit with the exchange rate at the mo, thanks to Brexit. So I guess he'll hang on for a while longer in the hope the shares will rise further.

The problem with Kroenke is that I don't think he'd ever want to cash out. He has that collector mentality where he collects sports clubs like some rich people collect art. They don't give a f*** about what the painting actually is and just throw it into some temperature/moisture controlled storage letting it appreciate in value without ever caring about looking at the art or displaying it. They care only about the investment process in procuring art for 'safe' value more than actually enjoying the art for what it is.

Kroenke is like that with Arsenal. Its purely portfolio investment to him. He doesn't care about our team on the pitch as long as the club in his portfolio increases in value every year.
 
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