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$tan Kroenke Becomes Soul Owner

Ceballinhos

Cheating on Santi
What would you suggest as a better alternative for trying to remove Kroenke ?

You can't.
He doesn't care.
It's too late there's nothing else to do.

That's interesting to know. I suspected as much but I hadn't looked at the accounts to see the exact figures. Your right, there's no footballing reason to need to hold that much cash. It doesn't seem too farfetched to speculate as we have done that the cash is being used to leverage other investments.

Just having a quick look online to see some of Kroenke's commitments:

It looks like the LA Rams are undertaking an expansion costing approx $4bn. Kroenke only recently brought out Usmanov's shares for £500+
The $800m ranch that Kroenke brought not too long ago. There's probably even more.

Combine these and I think we have cracked the "mystery" of why we are in austerity mode despite being probably the most cash rich club in the country?

Those are not related at all.

The main issue with Kroenke is that he doesn't care at all. And those who are running the club right now are donkeys. And Kroenke doesn't want to get involved at all.
 

Maybe

You're wrong, no?
Those are not related at all.

The main issue with Kroenke is that he doesn't care at all. And those who are running the club right now are donkeys. And Kroenke doesn't want to get involved at all.
What exactly do you expect from Kroenke? He can't just give his money to buy players as it's against FFP so hopefully we can stop writing this crap over and over again.
He invested his money in this business probably not knowing much about football before that, but he did make the decision to buy the club because it's value is much bigger 15 years later. With a clear lack of football knowledge and interest in it, his best decision was to give control to people who know something about the game. It was Wenger + Dein when he came here, later Wenger + Gazidis and now it's Raul. For me, it's reasonable to do something like that and it's how things work in the business world.
I it's your opinion that Raul is a donkey, I'm OK with it, but he was brought in here because of his success elsewhere, not because he was the cutest donkey around.
Lot's of bad calls were made in the last 10 years and none of them were his, and people who did them are out of the club now.
 

TheEconomist

Established Member
You can't remove Kroenke. To think you could is folly. You're just going to have to live with it until he decides he doesn't want to own the club anymore. You would only be making things hard on the players, the coaches and the rest of the fan base, while embarrassing the Arsenal fan base in the eyes of everyone else. We've already been through that nonsense once.

My advice would be to just chill out and see what happens for awhile. There's a chance the club will start moving forward again, especially if they can win the Europa League final and get back into the Champions League. Even without Kroenke acting like a Middle Eastern oil sheik, there should be more money available with significant increases in sponsorship revenue (a £40 million per year increase starting July 1). With the presumed hiring of Edu they're just putting the finishing touches on the new front office team that has succeeded Gazidis. They seem interested in making a lot of player changes. It also seems that Josh Kroenke is taking a much more personal interest in the club than his father. So given the fact that there is absolutely nothing that you can do to change the ownership, why not give the new program a chance rather than trying to sabotage it before it even gets started?
You've made some fair and articulate points, I obviously disagree with a few of them though.

What we've already been through was a relentless campaign which disrespected the greatest manager we've ever had. A campaign against Kroenke would unite the fan base rather than divide them. I've never met a single Arsenal fan in favour of Kroenke. I would also say that the last 10 years of steady decline have been more embarrassing to the fans than some Kroenke protests would be.

I agree with you that we are putting a better structure in place , and like you I hope that this brings success to us as a football team. The problem with this though is that under Kroenke the football results will always be an afterthought and that won't change no matter who sits on our management committee.
The other point i would make is that for the last 10 years we've been fed this dream that change is just around the corner. First we were in a period of transition, then we had to sell our best players, then we had to pay down our stadium debt, then we just needed to wait for our kit deal to expire. Then we just need to wait to get back into the champions League, now we just need this extra sponsorship money which starts on 1st July. Here's the thing. We already have enough money. We've had enough money for several years. We have more of it available then some our rivals do. We aren't spending it though. I won't discuss why but there's as there's a few earlier posts around this. Even if we get into the CL, and with our new sponsorship money, our transfer budget is rumoured to be around 70m. It's not unlikely that all our main rivals will spend that sum on a single player

We also had a team at the top which included Sven , someone with a real track record at top level. He's now been replaced with Edu. We also have the other two, none of us really have any idea how adept and capable they are. The only thing we can say with certainty is that they won't hesitate to play company politics because that was a factor in Sven leaving. If you feel hopeful with these 3 in charge of our club that's fine. Maybe you are right and they may be able to make some good value signings. But the thing is we'll never be competing to the best of our ability. We'll always he competing "with the handbrake on" because of the budget constraints enforced by Kroenke.
My fear is that, yes we might make some good value signings, we might punch above our weight we may even win the league or the CL once or twice in the next 20 years. But it will always just be an exception to the norm. The days of us competing regularly for the best hours won't return.

We're the biggest club in the richest and most prestigious city in Europe yet we will continue to play the poor and the austerity card for the foreseeable future. I'm sorry but I don't see that as a good outcome.

I agree that trying to remove Kroenke would be extremely difficult, and I agree that it will damage the club in the process. I just don't think it's completely impossible the way that you think it is. I also don't think Josh will be better than Stan Kroenke. Yes , he might have completed his little internship here, but one day when he takes over his family empire we will be an even smaller, more insignificant part of it then we already are.
 

TheEconomist

Established Member
You can't.



Those are not related at all.

The main issue with Kroenke is that he doesn't care at all. And those who are running the club right now are donkeys. And Kroenke doesn't want to get involved at all.

What's your basis for saying that they aren't related ? Do you have some insight into this that you can share ?
 

TheEconomist

Established Member
What exactly do you expect from Kroenke? He can't just give his money to buy players as it's against FFP so hopefully we can stop writing this crap over and over again.
He invested his money in this business probably not knowing much about football before that, but he did make the decision to buy the club because it's value is much bigger 15 years later. With a clear lack of football knowledge and interest in it, his best decision was to give control to people who know something about the game. It was Wenger + Dein when he came here, later Wenger + Gazidis and now it's Raul. For me, it's reasonable to do something like that and it's how things work in the business world.
I it's your opinion that Raul is a donkey, I'm OK with it, but he was brought in here because of his success elsewhere, not because he was the cutest donkey around.
Lot's of bad calls were made in the last 10 years and none of them were his, and people who did them are out of the club now.
Forgive me if I'm wrong but you seem to making two points .

1) That Stan Kroenke shouldn't be expected to put his own money into the club
2) That the management of the club rather than Kroenke have personally made the bad decisions in the last 10 years. .

I think you are correct on both counts but I won't think anyone here was arguing to the contrary ?

No one is asking Kroenke to put his own money into the club. I would be happy if he just let us use the money we already have.
 

Mo Britain

Doom Monger
If kronke doesn't leave we will be at best a mid-table team. So however impossible it might seem either the fans start agitating for him to go or we reconcile ourselves to mediocrity.

Some of us will always be Arsenal fans and some of you will start supporting other clubs when this becomes clear.
 

Mo Britain

Doom Monger
Forgive me if I'm wrong but you seem to making two points .

1) That Stan Kroenke shouldn't be expected to put his own money into the club
2) That the management of the club rather than Kroenke have personally made the bad decisions in the last 10 years. .

I think you are correct on both counts but I won't think anyone here was arguing to the contrary ?

No one is asking Kroenke to put his own money into the club. I would be happy if he just let us use the money we already have.
I don't want Kronke to put in his own money. I want him to leave so we have an owner who is prepared to invest in the club like the owners of most successful teams in the premier league have done.
 

Maybe

You're wrong, no?
No one is asking Kroenke to put his own money into the club. I would be happy if he just let us use the money we already have.
But we are using that money, the questions should be made how we use it/ waste it. In the past we did stock a lot of cash, but from my understanding there was some requirement for that when we took the loan for the stadium.
In the last couple of years we did spend a lot, but is it Kroenke's fault that we spend 100m on garbage players? I don't think that Kroenke or his son had any decision in bringing in Mustafi, Xhaka, Elneny and Perez, probably not even with new contract for Özil and deal for Mkhi. They have people employed to deal with this level of stuff, and when they've realised that it's wrong, they made changes. It's how the business works.
I would like to see more passionate owner, maybe these changes would've happened on time, but can't blame him for everything that's wrong with this club. I think it's a dream job for every manager and coach to work with that level of independence
 

Maybe

You're wrong, no?
I don't want Kronke to put in his own money. I want him to leave so we have an owner who is prepared to invest in the club like the owners of most successful teams in the premier league have done.
Are you referring to Man City owners? What's an investment for you if not putting money in?
 

RacingPhoton

Established Member
But we are using that money, the questions should be made how we use it/ waste it. In the past we did stock a lot of cash, but from my understanding there was some requirement for that when we took the loan for the stadium.
In the last couple of years we did spend a lot, but is it Kroenke's fault that we spend 100m on garbage players? I don't think that Kroenke or his son had any decision in bringing in Mustafi, Xhaka, Elneny and Perez, probably not even with new contract for Özil and deal for Mkhi. They have people employed to deal with this level of stuff, and when they've realised that it's wrong, they made changes. It's how the business works.
I would like to see more passionate owner, maybe these changes would've happened on time, but can't blame him for everything that's wrong with this club. I think it's a dream job for every manager and coach to work with that level of independence
Forget buying players. Look at the way we handled contracts of existing players. Gazidis should have been fired for this alone? The management has been making such mistakes for so many years. Everyone from Gazidis to head-scout should have been fired. That is what we expect from Kroenke as owner. He doesn't even do that.

Any organization's culture seeps in from the top. If Gazidis is left without being fired even after such pathetic management, he will do the same thing to people reporting to him and so on. Because Kroenke doesn't give a ****, no one else gives a ****.
 

Maybe

You're wrong, no?
Forget buying players. Look at the way we handled contracts of existing players. Gazidis should have been fired for this alone? The management has been making such mistakes for so many years. Everyone from Gazidis to head-scout should have been fired. That is what we expect from Kroenke as owner. He doesn't even do that.

Any organization's culture seeps in from the top. If Gazidis is left without being fired even after such pathetic management, he will do the same thing to people reporting to him and so on. Because Kroenke doesn't give a ****, no one else gives a ****.
I agree, that's why I've said I would like to see more passionate owner. The downside of that is, owner's can have stupid ideas leading to same mistakes. The winning combination would be with the owner far away from dealing with player management / recruitment and having talented management to deal with this stuff, which Gazidis was not. Having healthy separation of player recruitment, contract negotiations, financial business(sponsors) and coaching is priority here. If we look at the last 5 years when we actually started to invest money that we earn, we've failed in most of it, especially contract negotiations. Some of the contracts on our books are really amateur stuff which I didn't expect from Wenger and Gazidis who were dealing with that to great effect from 2000-2010. We are paying the price of that and it will hurt us for the next 3 years.
 

Ceballinhos

Cheating on Santi
What exactly do you expect from Kroenke? He can't just give his money to buy players as it's against FFP so hopefully we can stop writing this crap over and over again.
He invested his money in this business probably not knowing much about football before that, but he did make the decision to buy the club because it's value is much bigger 15 years later. With a clear lack of football knowledge and interest in it, his best decision was to give control to people who know something about the game. It was Wenger + Dein when he came here, later Wenger + Gazidis and now it's Raul. For me, it's reasonable to do something like that and it's how things work in the business world.
I it's your opinion that Raul is a donkey, I'm OK with it, but he was brought in here because of his success elsewhere, not because he was the cutest donkey around.
Lot's of bad calls were made in the last 10 years and none of them were his, and people who did them are out of the club now.

I want an ambitious owner who cares for the club. Not by putting his money in the club but at least giving a clear direction.
I want him to set a target and make the people who run this club accountable as they should be.

He's let Gazidis, Wenger and whoever is/was in charge making bad calls after bad calls and he was ok to see us regress season after season.
 

Rain Dance

Established Member
Trusted ⭐
You guys are naive if you think we only need to use the money we have from perpetual self sustain model and we will be successful like other self sustain examples Bayern Munchen or Juventus.

Frankly without owners willing to inject money we will end up like Ajax or Southampton.
 

Debre-Zeyit

Active Member
You guys are naive if you think we only need to use the money we have from perpetual self sustain model and we will be successful like other self sustain examples Bayern Munchen or Juventus.

Frankly without owners willing to inject money we will end up like Ajax or Southampton.


Ajax actually reached the cl semi and are very good side, be like ajax please.
 

Rain Dance

Established Member
Trusted ⭐
Ajax actually reached the cl semi and are very good side, be like ajax please.
And next year, they will sell their star players like they do every season since they last won CL.

Don't be like Ajax, unless you like trading, then yeah be like Ajax, be a feeder club
 

Tony's nose

Active Member
What always makes me chortle is Kroenke referal to bringing our wage bill down.

If we sell 5 players we have that would be bang avergae on over inflated wages , then bring in 3 youngsters but 2 world class players then these worldies would want sky high wages so where would we save ??

Thats why i think we will never ever by the best that as Arsenal football club we should be doing.

Look at his past comments of not im it to win leagues and refering to alexis sanchez looking good in the blue kit ffs cringeworthy.

Kroenke doesnt have the stomach for it nor the ambition and doesnt folow The Arsenal
 

Maybe

You're wrong, no?
And next year, they will sell their star players like they do every season since they last won CL.

Don't be like Ajax, unless you like trading, then yeah be like Ajax, be a feeder club
Having a hybrid of talented young players who are sellable for money that Ajax is getting for their players, and senior player like Laca and Auba is the best model we can have here, every half-competent manager should know that. Having a hybrid of players like Laca and Auba, combined with Elneny, Xhaka and Mustafi have proved to be very wrong business for us for the last decade. Low resale value of experienced, average and overpaid players is hurting us more than anything else.
If this club want's to spend money, it should first learn how to earn money and cut costs, that is down to management, not Kroenke.
Just by looking at our team wage bill is enough to fire every person in this club that had any decisions in those contract, and hopefully they are all gone by now.
 

Rain Dance

Established Member
Trusted ⭐
Having a hybrid of talented young players who are sellable for money that Ajax is getting for their players, and senior player like Laca and Auba is the best model we can have here, every half-competent manager should know that. Having a hybrid of players like Laca and Auba, combined with Elneny, Xhaka and Mustafi have proved to be very wrong business for us for the last decade. Low resale value of experienced, average and overpaid players is hurting us more than anything else.
1st of all, we don't have the same freedom to pick young players like Ajax, our scouting pool is more limited. Their competition to get young talents in Dutch league is only a few.
Ajax's freedom is similar to Juventus, Bayern Munchen or Manchester United. They are incredibly famous in Netherland, we aren't as famous as them in England.
Hard to swallow pill, but our brand today aren't as interesting to young talents compared to the 2000's
2nd. British young talents cost more than other leagues' young talents. Making them having low resell value.
furthermore, they can just walk away by refusing a new contract for a better pay.
3rd. We have been in a position where you suggested, our squad was one of the youngest averaged squad during Wenger era, I think it was during Cesc era, ended with players wanting to leave as soon as a good offer came in. We were never settle as a team cause we constantly need to replace a talent
4th. - Low resale value of experienced, average and overpaid players is hurting us more than anything else. -
Are we an economic trading company? or are we a football club aiming for champion? If we are an economic trading company, emphasizing on low resale value is correct but if we are aiming to be champions, then we cut our loses and move them away even without getting even.

5th. What's hurting us is the lack of desire to be a champion, to measure everything in profit, to forget tactical approach worth more than value of a player, to forget clubs with less capital capable to perform cause they have desire to win.
We are one of the TOP 10 RICHEST club in the world ffs.

If this club want's to spend money, it should first learn how to earn money and cut costs, that is down to management, not Kroenke.
Just by looking at our team wage bill is enough to fire every person in this club that had any decisions in those contract, and hopefully they are all gone by now.
That's BULSHIT, Kroenke is a part of the management, his son(s) are the head of management team. He doesn't get a free pass cause he doesn't know how football works.
 

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