Who among Ramsey/Özil/Cazorla should be dropped?

Discussion in 'Arsenal Talk' started by sammy89, Aug 9, 2015.

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Who among Ramsey/Özil/Cazorla should be dropped?

  1. Özil

  2. Ramsey

  3. Cazorla

Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. Rex Banter

    Rex Banter YNWA Trusted

    I think Ramsey gets a lot of stick for going forward yet people underrate how good his engine is. He has no problem getting back and covering without the ball, his stamina is phenomenal.

    For Chelsea you often see Cesc get ahead of the ball when he's partnering Matic.
     
  2. RandyMarsh

    RandyMarsh Established Member

    Yeah agree with this. Trust me, come December time when our inevitable injuries force Wenger into playing a team like you suggest, we will start seeing us pick up results regularly and play our best and most balanced football; both in attack and defence.

    The team you suggest is sensible and practical, but Wenger doesn't do that i'm afraid. Unless he is forced to.
     
  3. Big Poppa

    Big Poppa Well-Known Member Trusted

    What the **** have we achieved in over 10 years of possession football? Wenger's most successful sides were at their most dangerous when defending an opposition corner because of lightning quick counter attacks and potent finishing. I couldn't give a **** if we have 60% of the ball or 40% of the ball. If with that 40% we create better chances and score more goals. Wenger, play every player in their best position and stop trying to be a smarty pants.
     
    SteveEvets, Coolin and James Bond like this.
  4. Gooner n Proud

    Gooner n Proud a.k.a. nasri_8 and Voice of Flamini

    I'm not necessarily talking about possession football as a primary style but more in terms of our inability to hold possession in the final third when we are progressing an attack if we were going to use that front 3 permanently.

    Controversial and some shocks but I think our most balanced front 3 would be Campbell-Sanchez-Chamberlain.
    In a few years time they could come close to Neymar-Suarez-Messi as all 3 are great footballers who work hard, possess pace, have the footballing intelligence and athleticism to interchange.

     
  5. Emibury

    Emibury Well-Known Member

    Don't drop, rotate. Different players may suit different games. Reduce injury chance by not allowing a player to play 2 or 3 games a week for a prolonged period of time.
     
  6. GabeGooner

    GabeGooner Well-Known Member

    We'll have to wait more than three games to see how it pans out this season, but they both controlled the middle all last season. Cazorla is fantastic in possession, and it's that attribute which allows Coquelin to excel in a more restricted role. Ramsey is entirely different; he's box-to-box and much more attacking than Cazorla.
     
  7. RandyMarsh

    RandyMarsh Established Member

    I wouldn't go as far as to say they controlled the middle all last season. Tottenham away, Burnley away, United away all spring to mind. Our midfield can get dominated quite easily actually.

    At home, we seem to control the midfield better but have struggled to create chances/score for a while now.

    I personally think we should be giving Ramsey-Coq another shot sooner rather than later. Before Ramsey literally think's he's Ronaldo. He'll be past the point of return by that point.
     
  8. GabeGooner

    GabeGooner Well-Known Member

    I wanted Cazorla gone in 2014/15 because I felt we had the players to replace him and we could better use the money we got for him. Now, though, he's proven to be a key player; there is no-one else to do what he does.

    There's only really Rosicky and Özil who can keep possession as well as Cazorla, and only one of them can play deep (Rosicky). Cazorla is younger than Rosicky, so it makes no sense to let him go until we get a replacement (someone like Verratti – ha!).

    I think Ramsey, on the other hand, alters the way we play – he's up and down, not close to Coquelin, and that influences how we control the midfield. We need Ramsey to develop his game more before he can do what Cazorla does. That'll take time, IMO.
     
  9. clockwork orange

    clockwork orange Blind faith in "LVG filoshophy" Elite

    [​IMG]
    I think tomorrow's Vuelta stage depicts Cazorla's shape this season.
     
  10. RandyMarsh

    RandyMarsh Established Member

    Yeah fair points. I just can't remember any bad games we've had when Ramsey-Coq have been paired together. It all seems a bit exaggerated to me. I think it's more to do with Wenger trying to fit Ramsey, Cazorla and Özil into the same team and Ramsey is a lot better on the wing than Cazorla so he sets them up like that.

    Ramsey's not as good of a controller as Cazorla but i don't think the difference in quality between Cazorla and Ramsey in CM is so great that we have to disrupt the balance of our team further up the pitch because of it.

    Imo Ramsey was fine until he started being played further forward in that 4-1-4-1 formation last season and then later on on the wing. Think we just have to start developing the Ramsey-Coq partnership further so we can get back to playing a bloody winger on the wing again.
     
  11. Big Poppa

    Big Poppa Well-Known Member Trusted

    Sorry if I misunderstood your post. I just can't make sense of the logic that playing a midfielder on the wing makes us better balanced. You don't need to overload the middle of the pitch if you have an adequate balance of passing, strength and technique in midfield. We don't, and try to overcompensate by putting an extra midfielder on the pitch.

    What looks like adding more balance is actually weakening ourselves in one area to make up for a weakness in another. How about we address the initial weakness in the first place? It's a massive bugbear of mine with AW.
     
  12. Lilwizzle

    Lilwizzle Well-Known Member

    Literally 2 games ago.
     
  13. RandyMarsh

    RandyMarsh Established Member

    Oh my bad. Forgot we had Santi on the wing in the West Ham game. Can't say we didn't completely control the game in the midfield though. Everyone was just off form in general.
     
  14. GabeGooner

    GabeGooner Well-Known Member

    It's more about movement, really.

    Cazorla stays close to Coquelin and is therefore always available for a pass. He also rarely loses the ball, so is a better candidate to play at CM.

    Ramsey is box-to-box, so he's not always around for Coquelin to lay the ball off to. He's also less reliable in possession, which exposes Coquelin and the defence on the counter-attack.

    Depending on who you play, you get something different in that role. Ramsey gives you movement, energy and more of an attacking threat, but he lowers your defensive protection. Cazorla is more balanced, and subsequently, he helps Coquelin have more of an impact.
     
  15. Lilwizzle

    Lilwizzle Well-Known Member

    Id argue the same for the same half against Liverpool, no one can really hold their head high from that bar Cech. We controlled the game and the midfield in the second half.
     
  16. Lilwizzle

    Lilwizzle Well-Known Member

    Caz-Coq, Rambo-Coq, both have their strengths and weaknesses. I don't think picking examples prove much, we've beaten some of the best teams around with the first partnership.

    I think we were criminally exposed in the middle because of Özil. It was 2 v 4 at times, any pairing would struggle against Milner, Can, Lucas and Coutinho(sometimes). He was visibly deeper in the second probably due to Wengers instructions, and that's why we managed to get a foothold of the game
     
  17. MrBump

    MrBump Active Member

    Ramsey is the problem in our first team. Until Wenger and all the British boy next door lovers get this, nothing will change.
    He needs to sit on the bench until he can show that he can shift Cazorla.
    Cazorla showed last year consistently how good he plays at CM next to Coquelin.
    He has better discipline and awareness
    He has better distribution
    He has better ball control
    He has better vision
    He has both feet

    The only thing he doesn't have is running around over Ramsey. But a brain beats that all day long.

    Ox showed what he can bring to the team in pre season. Many say he doesn't score enough.....
    He hasn't scored enough because he hasn't played enough !
    Go watch charity shield again.

    The Wenger/Ramsey love affair is the problem.
     
  18. Gooner Zig

    Gooner Zig AM's Resident Accountant Trusted

    Cazorla is a midget and lacks physicality which doesn't cut the mustard in this league - also he can't tackle for ****.
     
  19. law90026

    law90026 Well-Known Member

    No one underrates his engine. However, even if he can run all day, unless he can freaking teleport, he's not going to be able to get back to cover his position if he's already further upfield than Giroud. That's the tactical ill-discipline that is a problem, nothing to do with his engine.
     
  20. Rain Dance

    Rain Dance Well-Known Member Trusted

    Replace Gervinho with Cazorla, I mistakenly remembered the wrong name.

    it was mostly Podolski-Giroud-Gervinho or Podolski/Cazorla-Gervinho-Theo.

    And here is a thread from 2012, on A-M reminding you how woeful Ramsey in RW was
    https://arsenal-mania.com/forum/threads/aaron-ramsey-on-the-right-track.26644/page-9
     

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