Jack Attack

OK - we're beyond "Jack's back" now, and past the first screams of amazement and pleasure. We also had/have some running threads regarding his leadership, importance to the club, etc.

Time to focus on some aspects we've yet to discuss separately, particularly the ones concerning his role in attack/higher up compared to his initial CM role.

Normally I aim to narrow a topic down and define the boundaries very clearly, as it otherwise seems to drift, and hamper the discussion. I'll be less of a tyrant here, not because I don't want it to drift, but because I think there are quite a few areas included in "Jack attack", all of which are interesting, rather new and up for debate.

Obviously he's No. 10-ness is one. Everything: how good is he for it, is it his role, should he be the only one (Caz), how deep/help D should he be/do, comparisons - whatever: it's all good (yes, I'm really saying that ).

Scoring: should he/will he go for more, how much more, what stopped him till now (yesterday I was scratching my head about it till that strike - I felt he needed to take them much more freely), what type of strikes he should look for/develop, comparisons, again: whatever, it's all good.

Also talk about what it does to formations, how it affects other players/specific pairings, what it might do to us as a team (not to forget ), and probably other stuff I can't think of now. In short: if it has to do with Jack's moving forward/playing in/running the attack, it is kosher.

I was drooling since he first got back in training. I'm so enjoying this.
Jack

Jack's best trait right now is that he offers penetration from the middle and that is something that is going to add a new dimension to the attack especially when teams sit deep. Too often this Arsenal team seem clueless what to do with the ball when teams sit deep and just make it easy for the opponent by playing in front of them. Jack's ability to commit defenders will naturally draw players out of position opening gaps for others to exploit.

If the no. 10 role is indeed going to be his new position then he is going to need to improve his final ball as it can at times let him down and he is going to need to take on the initiative in terms of scoring. He is young though and these things should improve with time and I liked what I saw from him yesterday.

Think as a #10 in behind the attackers is where he will be best, Arsène has said the same.

But I think he is similar to an Iniesta who can play as a #10, or a bit deeper more of a CM (as Jack has been most of the season), or even on the wing.

Think if we have an Arteta and a Diaby (or similar) double pivot with Jack ahead of them really frees him up to be more of an attacker.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=edQz9SyT5Kk
If he keeps scoring he will be a better no.10 than Cazorla

Think if we have an Arteta and a Diaby (or similar) double pivot with Jack ahead of them really frees him up to be more of an attacker.

- - Diaby - Arteta - -
- - - - Jack - - - -
Theo - Giroud - Cazorla


- - Diaby - Arteta - -
- - - - Jack - - - -
Cazorla - Theo - Poldi

With Ox, Ramsey in support.

If only Diaby didn't have to leave.

He's class as number 10 because he is so direct with his dribbling. The goals will come the more he plays in that position aswell so I won't be worried about that (like Cesc). He had a eye for a killer pass in 10/11 but I believe it is off because of playing in basically a new attacking unit. As the understanding develops and quality improves he will be perfect in that position. Arsène considers him the perfect midfielder and I'm inclined to agree, get Cazorla as LAM and stick Wilshere at CAM to have them both as close to each other and the goal as possible.



_________Walcott_________
_Podolski_Wilshere_Cazorla_
_______Arteta_Diaby_______


That is a fantastic unit, if we upgrade in the ST position and possibly upgrade Diaby (fitness concerns) and our attack will start purring once more.

(like Cesc).

Yeah, let's talk dirty a bit:

I say he'll never have cesc's eye for a pass; quality pass; and view of the game as a whole (think cesc is just one of the very best in all of the above).

But I think he is already better in dribbling, tight spaces, tackling, burst forward (how about this after-burner he seems to have added?), and I think he'll surpass him in shooting ability in the end. Not to mention the fire he puts into the game/team.

Interestingly, it was Cesc himself who said we don't need to worry about him gone, as we have Jack.

I said it at the start of the season, I think our best line-up if everybody is fit would include Wilshere at CAM, Diaby B2B, Arteta DM and Cazorla on a wing. However, for regular PL games against mid/lower table opposition, I'd rather see one of them rested and ready to come on to keep our strategic options open.

(like Cesc).

Yeah, let's talk dirty a bit:

I say he'll never have cesc's eye for a pass; quality pass; and view of the game as a whole (think cesc is just one of the very best in all of the above).

But I think he is already better in dribbling, tight spaces, tackling, burst forward (how about this after-burner he seems to have added?), and I think he'll surpass him in shooting ability in the end. Not to mention the fire he puts into the game/team.

Interestingly, it was Cesc himself who said we don't need to worry about him gone, as we have Jack.

I agree that he won't be as good a passing playmaker as Cesc but some of Jack's passing is phenomenal, some of the best I've seen on such a young player. His assist for Theo in the CL 2010/2011, the assist for Arshavin, the Assist for Bendtner etc and he racked up a lot of pre assists for playing the key pass. If we had RVP fit a whole season and the more reliable version of Walcott we have now he would've racked up 15-20 assists that season imo. Not to mention the likes of Bendtner, Vela and Chamakh who were wasting great chances.

Fabregas wasn't anywhere near prolific when he first broke into the first team and he turned out alright eh?

I remember Wenger once saying that a player doesn't just forget how to score when they move into the first team. Once they settle, adapt and gain confidence, their goal scoring ability will always come back. Jack's shown in the youth teams that he knows how to finish so it's only a matter of time before the flood gates open in my opinion.

Without wanting this to turn into a Jack v Cesc thread, I'd have to say I'm yet to see a midfielder as good as Cesc was when he first come through, at times I used to think we had a future WPOTY on our hands.

some other potential thread titles:
jack to the future
jacking off
wenger knows jack (get it?)
jack of all trades
jack in the box

Not bad .

Keep them, we're sure to have other threads for this boy.
Wenger knows Jack

I believe #10 will be his best future position but wouldn't want him playing there regularly for us until he improves his final pass. With the positions he gets into he should be creating more, although he'll never reach Cesc-like figures in terms of assists. We should be focusing on bringing in more creativity from the other forwards if we're going to utilize Jack in that position moving forward.

He's seemed more confident in his shooting these last few games, loved how he took yesterday's goal instincively. Should grow in confidence in scoring more of those and I expect him to be the type of midfielder who bangs it in reguiarly in the future.

Part of me wondered if we should switch Jack out wide and Santi in the middle, because Santi would do a better job at creating chances. But then Jack's a lot busier and you'd want him on the ball as much as possible to drive through the middle.

Also how much ground did he cover there yesterday? We definitely need to find a way to rest him before he burns out, especially if we continue playing him further up.

I see Jack being closer to Gerrard than Cesc imo.

I would like to see Jack further up more often but not with Cazrola on the wings. I know he has played there and yada yada but I find his off the ball movement or just movement in general lacking.

A midfield like yesterday though is ideal.

I don't want to turn this into a Jack v Cesc thread, but Cesc was clearly the better player in ALL aspects of the game and at all ages. That is in no way a slant on Jack, as we're talking about one of the best modern day midfielders the world has seen in Cesc. There are a fair few levels of 'fantastic' under Cesc, and Jack is one of them right now. He'll go up a few notches too before he's done - no question. That's more than good enough for me and Arsenal. No need to over do it IMO.

Jacks good enough to currently do any job down the middle, from DMF to AMF. His assets, though, will complement the more attacking role as he progresses.

As for the thread title (we like discussing yuvkens,so why not? ) I'd have gone for 'JACK SH1T' for pure shock value. No, as it happens, I quite like a_fourteens 'Jack to the future'. Sublime effort, that.

@HectorBellerin: Jack is the meaning of giving everything u have on the football pitch. You can see how much he loves the club in every single game #topclass

kylebartley22: Thought Wilshere was the difference tonight. Unbelievable performance from him.. Big thankyou to all the arsenal fans appreciate the support

I remember Wenger once saying that a player doesn't just forget how to score when they move into the first team. Once they settle, adapt and gain confidence, their goal scoring ability will always come back. Jack's shown in the youth teams that he knows how to finish so it's only a matter of time before the flood gates open in my opinion.

Good point. Did jack score anywhere near as often as Cesc did in their early years, though? Cesc always had that in his game, not that Jack wont develop it IMO.

Jack created 6 goal scoring chances in one game double that of any player on the pitch against Swansea
He also had 3 shots on goal and scored 1 in his first game as a CAM
I think he should be the new no.10 but we need to strengthen the midfield first before doing that

He scored a lot for the u18s when he was just 15.

Edit: 13 goals in 18 games.

I don't want to turn this into a Jack v Cesc thread, but Cesc was clearly the better player in ALL aspects of the game and at all ages. That is in no way a slant on Jack, as we're talking about one of the best modern day midfielders the world has seen in Cesc.

I wouldn't say in all aspects.

Jack has a better change of pace, has the ability to turn a man, suits a counter attacking style with his ability to drive, is a better dribbler and has more bite just to name a few.

They are very different midfielders, but I honestly think Jack will reach a level as good as Cesc, all be it with a different style.

I don't want to turn this into a Jack v Cesc thread, but Cesc was clearly the better player in ALL aspects of the game and at all ages. That is in no way a slant on Jack, as we're talking about one of the best modern day midfielders the world has seen in Cesc. There are a fair few levels of 'fantastic' under Cesc, and Jack is one of them right now. He'll go up a few notches too before he's done - no question. That's more than good enough for me and Arsenal. No need to over do it IMO.

Jacks good enough to currently do any job down the middle, from DMF to AMF. His assets, though, will complement the more attacking role as he progresses.

As for the thread title (we like discussing yuvkens,so why not? ) I'd have gone for 'JACK SH1T' for pure shock value. No, as it happens, I quite like a_fourteens 'Jack to the future'. Sublime effort, that.

with every passing year cesc became a bigger pussy. i dont think we'll have to ever worry about jack in that department.

Not for me, Cuda. Cesc had all that in his locker, and a chip roll! We've seen more than a few examples of all those things over the years. I'm all for the Jack love, but have you bumped your head?!

He scored a lot for the u18s when he was just 15.

Edit: 13 goals in 18 games.

Cheers. That's more than a handy return.

I always thought he was best 10 even though others saw him as a deeper CM. Like some have alluded to, we haven't seen anything in terms of goalscoring ability from him yet. He will improve in that respect.

In the final third he can afford us possession like Fabregas did, make defense split passes like Bergkamp, and score like Brady ( )

Playing Wilshere higher up the pitch yesterday in the CAM/number ten role worked. Maybe his final ball in the final third needs a bit of improvement. Always for the Reserves and U18's Wilshere used to play in that position. E.g. the FA Youth double winning team in 2009. Wilshere played in the CAM role with Coquelin and Frimpong behind him in midfield.

What is it with this board and underrating players playing in Arsenal colors and overrating them when they are not...

Cesc was clearly the better player in ALL aspects of the game and at all ages.

Too strong. I agree with you on Cesc being a very special player, but he was not perfect, and some aspects of his game were not particularly impressive (dribbling? seriously compare to Jack?). But that Jack has a lot to do to equal him is true. Wouldn't exclude it altogether, though.
Edit: sorry, guys, I didn't see you were already on it (Cuda +. Actually agree with every word there). Carry on.

What is it with this board and underrating players playing in Arsenal colors and overrating them when they are not...

Why is the grass around Dzagoev greener?

What is it with this board and underrating players playing in Arsenal colors and overrating them when they are not...

Why is the grass around Dzagoev greener?