Premier league 2011: The race for ......?

We have a squad consisting of 25 players and blaming two players for a string of poor results is too simple, there are no two ways about that.
It's basically the same theory as opposition fans apply on us, with the usual "you wouldn't be where you are without RVP" bollocks.
It just isn't true, not entirely.

I haven't said Fabregas or Nasri are winners, I basically said even if they were, I doubt both would have had that big an influence on the rest of the squad regarding "never say die attitude" and etc.
Fabs was no good skipper, that's a point where I agree with you, and Nasri was no player others around him would look up to either, when push comes to shove.
So to put it simple, you demand something from two players which they would've never been capable of doing, and you pretty much admitted that above.

You can't blame a Vauxhall for not looking like an Audi.


Wenger was to blame for that mess too, I wholeheartedly agree.

I really hope you'll get 3rd, mostly because it'll put £200 in my pocket

Too bad, we'll win the league with 82 points.

Entropy's stats pretty much confirm Wenger's latest comments.
We've had two weak periods this season and paid the price for them.

A third one will definitely kill our CL ambitions I fear, so we better keep our current record.

And who was responsible for those 2 weak periods = AW.
Why should he get credit for the season result when he has scuttled our season TWICE in each of the transfer windows???
If we finish within 12 points of the title then this is yet another season we could/should have won the title.

Entropy's stats pretty much confirm Wenger's latest comments.
We've had two weak periods this season and paid the price for them.

A third one will definitely kill our CL ambitions I fear, so we better keep our current record.

And who was responsible for those 2 weak periods = AW.
Why should he get credit for the season result when he has scuttled our season TWICE in each of the transfer windows???
If we finish within 12 points of the title then this is yet another season we could/should have won the title.

Well although it's true the manager should be responsible for all this but achievement are still achievement
I admit I thought we would battle for 4/5th place this time for year as I think we would collapse in February just like every other year... and yet here we are at 3rd

Let just see how things ends up Anzac,

kudos for our team for making progress

but stay vigilant for how our lack of ambition and skint board members gonna do

I have a feeling that AW will tell us again at the end of the season how retaining top4 after the changes in players & the struggles during the season IS a success, just as he did in '08/09(???).

And who was responsible for those 2 weak periods = AW.
Why should he get credit for the season result when he has scuttled our season TWICE in each of the transfer windows???
If we finish within 12 points of the title then this is yet another season we could/should have won the title.

What a ridiculous comment/observation. On the one hand, it's weirdly high praise for the initial squad Wenger put together (though I suspect it's mixed with some kind of theory about the rest of the league being so weak and that this was the time to strike), while on the other hand it's plain gibberish and I don't care if some ad hoc calculator work somehow 'backs' it up.

And I wish people would stop bleating about the fullback situation and the lack of movement in the Jan. window for a fullback. As if a Wayne Bridge would have rescued us. We were decimated at that position and I'm not convinced the answer would have been to have 6+ fbs on our books. I think we could do with strengthening rb, but only in the summer window not haphazardly in Jan.

Also, this angst ridden 'lost opportunity' attitude is ironic, since it's only because we have pulled it together and climbed the table that it can even be entertained. Not long ago, there was vociferous criticism that everything was wrong and f-ed up, now it's just, oh well, nice that we've got some results and all but coming first was what I always reckoned we were capable of and I knew our squad was great ... bull fecking crap. Unbelievable, really.

And who was responsible for those 2 weak periods = AW.
Why should he get credit for the season result when he has scuttled our season TWICE in each of the transfer windows???
If we finish within 12 points of the title then this is yet another season we could/should have won the title.

What a ridiculous comment/observation. On the one hand, it's weirdly high praise for the initial squad Wenger put together (though I suspect it's mixed with some kind of theory about the rest of the league being so weak and that this was the time to strike), while on the other hand it's plain gibberish and I don't care if some ad hoc calculator work somehow 'backs' it up.

And I wish people would stop bleating about the fullback situation and the lack of movement in the Jan. window for a fullback. As if a Wayne Bridge would have rescued us. We were decimated at that position and I'm not convinced the answer would have been to have 6+ fbs on our books. I think we could do with strengthening rb, but only in the summer window not haphazardly in Jan.

Also, this angst ridden 'lost opportunity' attitude is ironic, since it's only because we have pulled it together and climbed the table that it can even be entertained. Not long ago, there was vociferous criticism that everything was wrong and f-ed up, now it's just, oh well, nice that we've got some results and all but coming first was what I always reckoned we were capable of and I knew our squad was great ... bull fecking crap. Unbelievable, really.

It just further reinforces how reliant Anzac is on hindsight.

And who was responsible for those 2 weak periods = AW.
Why should he get credit for the season result when he has scuttled our season TWICE in each of the transfer windows???
If we finish within 12 points of the title then this is yet another season we could/should have won the title.

What a ridiculous comment/observation. On the one hand, it's weirdly high praise for the initial squad Wenger put together (though I suspect it's mixed with some kind of theory about the rest of the league being so weak and that this was the time to strike), while on the other hand it's plain gibberish and I don't care if some ad hoc calculator work somehow 'backs' it up.

And I wish people would stop bleating about the fullback situation and the lack of movement in the Jan. window for a fullback. As if a Wayne Bridge would have rescued us. We were decimated at that position and I'm not convinced the answer would have been to have 6+ fbs on our books. I think we could do with strengthening rb, but only in the summer window not haphazardly in Jan.

Also, this angst ridden 'lost opportunity' attitude is ironic, since it's only because we have pulled it together and climbed the table that it can even be entertained. Not long ago, there was vociferous criticism that everything was wrong and f-ed up, now it's just, oh well, nice that we've got some results and all but coming first was what I always reckoned we were capable of and I knew our squad was great ... bull fecking crap. Unbelievable, really.

With no FBs available the options are to provide cover - sign/loan;
Or to change our patterns to compensate.

IMO it was arrogant & foolhardy to continue to play the same patterns for 10 weeks when we are so reliant upon the FBs to provide width & overlap when going forward = it was never going to work & the points dropped reflects this.

As for the squad = I've long called for experienced players to balance the squad,
but it could/should have been done sooner rather than later.

Both of these periods of weakness were avoidable.

It just further reinforces how reliant Anzac is on hindsight.

Really???

I didn't think it was rocket science that having no FBs was likely to hurt us, and there were a number of posters who said so at the time.
What no one anticipated was that AW would do NOTHING,
and that can only be observed as hindsight.

Yes, we could have played (or adjusted) better, we could have picked up more points than we did, and Wenger could have done more (clearly, since he didn't go bin-dipping for a FB in Jan.), but, to return to my main issue, it's both pointless and unfair to claim that if we were to finish within 12 points of the leaders that somehow a golden opportunity to win the league was missed bearing in mind it's taken a quite brilliant run of form to get us where we are currently. A run that should be seen as a positive moving forward, not as a negative looking back.

Indeed, it's the kind of argument you'd expect from a 12 year old who really doesn't understand football, sports, or life in general. And I know that's not you.

If we finish 13 points behind, does that excuse any perceived wrongdoings on the basis that it wouldn't have made any difference anyway?

I don't know about winning the league, but if Wenger hadn't played Santos in Greece, we'd be a damn sight closer to the pace. I'd put my gonads on that.

It's not after every failed campaign that you can pick out one specific mistake that definitely cost us in hindsight, and you can call it conjecture if you like, but that one certainly is for me.

Yes, we could have played (or adjusted) better, we could have picked up more points than we did, and Wenger could have done more (clearly, since he didn't go bin-dipping for a FB in Jan.), but, to return to my main issue, it's both pointless and unfair to claim that if we were to finish within 12 points of the leaders that somehow a golden opportunity to win the league was missed bearing in mind it's taken a quite brilliant run of form to get us where we are currently. A run that should be seen as a positive moving forward, not as a negative looking back.

Indeed, it's the kind of argument you'd expect from a 12 year old who really doesn't understand football, sports, or life in general. And I know that's not you.

If we finish 13 points behind, does that excuse any perceived wrongdoings on the basis that it wouldn't have made any difference anyway?

Yeah I get what you're saying re the 12 points & run of form.
I see it as much the same as like when we bemoaned ManU winning the title with the worst title winning team in the history of the PL & how the title was there for the taking etc.

In a round about way I just want to provide some alternative context to the notion that AW is a genius for turning things around,
when IMO he's often been that root cause to the issues in the first instance.
Hence I concentrate more on the 'negative' as no one else seems to want to acknowledge their existance or AW's complicity in the first place.

Well, I for one, don't label Wenger a genius per se for this run, but I do think he deserves his fair share of credit for putting together this squad, under duress, and for sticking to his guns (whether we agree with them or not).

Our run more than likely will come to an end before the season finishes and even if it didn't I still think most everyone is aware of some shortcomings in our squad. We've turned it around to the extent that we should get top-4, while, naturally, we all want more. The key will be holding on to what we've got, avoiding another turbulent summer exodus, and adding some pieces. In that respect, our 'turnaround' could prove vital.

Entropy's stats pretty much confirm Wenger's latest comments.
We've had two weak periods this season and paid the price for them.

A third one will definitely kill our CL ambitions I fear, so we better keep our current record.

And who was responsible for those 2 weak periods = AW.
Why should he get credit for the season result when he has scuttled our season TWICE in each of the transfer windows???
If we finish within 12 points of the title then this is yet another season we could/should have won the title.

Simples, because he gets the flack when things aren't going well, hence he deserves the plaudits when things do go well.

And never have I said he deserves credit for the whole season. We're still eight games short of completing this campaign, many things can still happen, twists and turns, winning and losing runs, everything.

If we finish 12 points off the title winners in the end, it will be one hell of an achievement, given how badly last summer went for us (Wenger is not solely to blame for that) and in how bad a shape we started this campaign.

Well, I for one, don't label Wenger a genius per se for this run, but I do think he deserves his fair share of credit for putting together this squad, under duress, and for sticking to his guns (whether we agree with them or not).

Our run more than likely will come to an end before the season finishes and even if it didn't I still think most everyone is aware of some shortcomings in our squad. We've turned it around to the extent that we should get top-4, while, naturally, we all want more. The key will be holding on to what we've got, avoiding another turbulent summer exodus, and adding some pieces. In that respect, our 'turnaround' could prove vital.

Agreed - I have no issues giving him credit re the squad = it's along the lines of what I've been wanting to see since '08,
and agreed that this should be the start as opposed to the sum of the changes required.
Having said that I never 'settle' for top4 & want the 1st team/senior squad status to be based upon merit & not the 'need' to provide playing time etc - hence my comments re titles lost etc.

And despite all my comments etc I AM well aware that this current run of form is unmatched since 07/08 = kudos to all.

Well we are now in good position with 5 games left, 5 points ahead spuds and newcastle and 7 ahead of chelsea. Our next games are Wigan (H) Chelsea (H) Stoke (A) Norwich (H) and Westbrom (A).

well i hope win it all but its football. if we can took 10 points from the last 5 games i think we will be at CL next season.

i hope we win all the games still in our stadium. i feel stoke away will be very hard with their boring style of play.

Our lads need to stay focus its in our hand now.

3 homes games out of 5 left. Glorious. Absolutely glorious.

If we win those three homes games, and given our home form its something we could very possibly do, it wont matter the results at Stoke and West Brom, we will be bang on for third.

Id love to see a win at the Britannia though, bansish some demon's and am quietly confident we could actually win all five.

3 homes games out of 5 left. Glorious. Absolutely glorious.

It truly is the home stretch.

I'll get my coat.

with our toughest game (Chelsea) at home..

Wigan - 17th
Chelsea - 6th
Stoke - 12th
Norwich - 10th
West Brom - 13th

a final run in like that is all we could ask for (other than Chelsea)

I have a feeling that AW will tell us again at the end of the season how retaining top4 after the changes in players & the struggles during the season IS a success, just as he did in '08/09(???).

I think many have taken this CL qualification lark for granted frankly. when it looked like we would seriously struggle to gain a CL spot it really dawned on me how much I would hate Arsenal not being part of that glorious competition next season. TBH, our phoenix like ascendancy to 3rd has been fantastic and whilst I am disappointed that we haven't won anything this season, coming 3rd, and edging out Spurs in the process has been quite satisfying for me particularly considering the depths we have plummeted to in the earlier part of the season.

We all want to win something AND qualify for the CL.

I am one that can enjoy watching The Arsenal even if we don't win anything as long as we are competitive at the top table. However, I fully believe that Arsène intends for us to be much more competitive next season.

Great run in, looking forward to it to be honest.

Bloke at the pub today started joking about St Totteringham's Day - that's when I know it's near the end of the season.

11 points should do it.

We need to continue our good run at home, especially in the Chelsea game and get the remaining two points away. A third place finish would really cap off a remarkable rags to relative riches season for us.

One thing for sure is that the events of this year, especially the negative and most low ones, has only magnified my love for this club.

One can't underestimate what huge effect our winning run against Sunderland, Spuds, Pool and Newcastle on the squad itself had.
We've been unstoppable ever since the 5-2 (bar one poor result) and it doesn't look like we're going to drop soon.

Win our remaining home games and draw the other two away matches, and we're not just going to be better off than last season (by a country mile - it'd be 75 to 68) but finish equally good as in 2009/10 with 75 points.

Who'd have guessed two months ago, that we'd be in with a chance to achieve that, five games before the end of the season.

Incredible.

One can't underestimate what huge effect our winning run against Sunderland, Spuds, Pool and Newcastle on the squad itself had.
We've been unstoppable ever since the 5-2 (bar one poor result) and it doesn't look like we're going to drop soon.

Win our remaining home games and draw the other two away matches, and we're not just going to be better off than last season (by a country mile - it'd be 75 to 68) but finish equally good as in 2009/10 with 75 points.

Who'd have guessed two months ago, that we'd be in with a chance to achieve that, five games before the end of the season.

Incredible.

let's not count our chicken before their hatch, even chicks can die before they grow up

No injuries to key players (RvP,Rozz,Verm,Kos,Scz) and no tactical experiments (Ramsey in LW, Almunia in GK) would help alot

I'm fully aware of that, hence why I pointed at just the "chance to achieve that", at the end of my post.

thoroughness was never my strong point, my bad

No problem.

with our toughest game (Chelsea) at home..

Wigan - 17th
Chelsea - 6th
Stoke - 12th
Norwich - 10th
West Brom - 13th

a final run in like that is all we could ask for (other than Chelsea)

The Chelsea game comes in the middle of their Champions League semi-final with Barcelona and the FA Cup semi with Spurs at Wembley. Followed by QPR and Newcastle at home, which will be tough, a trip to Anfield and then a relegation-threatened Blackburn at the Bridge.

This is the first time in years I've felt so confident about a game against Chelsea. Terry is in a mess, Ivanovic will be suspended and although Torres has looked marginally better of late, they're still pretty toothless up front. The midfield is also a total car crash, barring Ramires.

Most importantly their best chance of Champions League qualification for next season is by winning either one of the cups rather than getting fourth place, so I don't think it's impossible that they actually rest players when they come to us.

Which is the other cup that gets you CL qualification?