Theo Walcott


mo50 (Elite Member) on February 27th, 2012, 12:52 am

Dokaka wrote:
Imagine Bent on the wing.

Baffling really.


Terrible comparison, tbf.

Walcott is best where he is. What he needs is a midfield that doesn't require him to drop deep and collect the ball, thus exposing his limitations, and he also needs an AM that sees the simple passes to supply the runs he makes.
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brady_style (Forum Member) on February 27th, 2012, 1:05 am

mo50 wrote:
Dokaka wrote:
Imagine Bent on the wing.

Baffling really.


Terrible comparison, tbf.

Walcott is best where he is. What he needs is a midfield that doesn't require him to drop deep and collect the ball, thus exposing his limitations, and he also needs an AM that sees the simple passes to supply the runs he makes.


I'm not sure if I could make that statement with such conviction. think we should give Theo an extended run up front. He was a goal scoring sensation at under age level for Southampton as a striker. He reminds me of a young Michael Owen. He has all the makings of a top striker. It's something worth exploring more.

Invincible (Lobby Member) on February 27th, 2012, 1:15 am

Dokaka wrote:
Invincible wrote:
David Smith wrote:He's not a striker imo. I think Theo's best as a wide inside forward that can run into space between central defender and full back. That's what he was today.

He's a striker all day long. Has no attributes of a wing forward other than pace.

Walcott is a Darren Bent. We've misused him all these years.


Imagine Bent on the wing.

Baffling really.

Or Michael Owen, Hernandez, Falcao, etc. They'd all fail epically on the wing.
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AnthonyG (Administrator) on February 27th, 2012, 1:27 am

Cruisio wrote:Erm, Ant, before you start jumping the gun on calling our fans a "disgrace" were you at the game? There was no booing of Theo at all, everyone was calling for him to be subbed off in the 2nd half, which after his first half is more than understandable, something Theo himself has admitted he could understand

2nd half he came out and started putting in that extra 10% and looked far better for it, credit to him
What a load of bullshit. From 'erm' to 'him'.

Wenger himself admitted that he was considering pulling Walcott because of some of the crowd.
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mo50 (Elite Member) on February 27th, 2012, 1:39 am

brady_style wrote:
mo50 wrote:
Dokaka wrote:
Imagine Bent on the wing.

Baffling really.


Terrible comparison, tbf.

Walcott is best where he is. What he needs is a midfield that doesn't require him to drop deep and collect the ball, thus exposing his limitations, and he also needs an AM that sees the simple passes to supply the runs he makes.


I'm not sure if I could make that statement with such conviction. think we should give Theo an extended run up front. He was a goal scoring sensation at under age level for Southampton as a striker. He reminds me of a young Michael Owen. He has all the makings of a top striker. It's something worth exploring more.


There's a few things we have to consider. First, playing Theo up top would mean we'd have to play a 4-4-2, and have him as the furthest forward striker. Why would we want to move the best CF in England away from his most effective position? It would definitely affect his goalscoring prowess we've witnessed this season, and I'd be against that.

Second, I believe Walcott's best trait is his off the ball runs between the CB and the fullback. If we could get someone to supply him with accurate balls on a consistent basis, he'd be a monster playing as a wide forward. Also, if we were to consider a 2 striker formation, I'm sure we could find a more suitable player to play with RvP.

His limitations would be shown up when 90% of teams sit back and defend with numbers, like against Sunderland last week. He didn't touch the ball and was completely ineffective. We'd see that more often if he played up top.

Ideally, he wouldn't receive the ball and be asked to carry/create something near the half way line. Our lack of a proper AM has exposed him in this aspect, and if we rectify that area I'm sure Walcott would be much more suited to playing on the right. Of all the players he's suffered the most because of Fabregas' departure.
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ebouenolike (Trusted Member) on February 27th, 2012, 2:18 am

So Theo has scored against United, Chelsea, Udinese and Spurs this season. Not bad, not bad at all.

He was bang up for it when there was some space in behind, quite clearly how he thrives. Chuffed he performed well in the second half, and a nice little put down for Spurs afterwards too.
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Floating (Trusted Member) on February 27th, 2012, 2:25 am

ebouenolike wrote:So Theo has scored against United, Chelsea, Udinese and Spurs this season. Not bad, not bad at all.


And people say he bottles it in the big games.
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Cruisio (Forum Member) on February 27th, 2012, 3:05 am

AnthonyG wrote:
Cruisio wrote:Erm, Ant, before you start jumping the gun on calling our fans a "disgrace" were you at the game? There was no booing of Theo at all, everyone was calling for him to be subbed off in the 2nd half, which after his first half is more than understandable, something Theo himself has admitted he could understand

2nd half he came out and started putting in that extra 10% and looked far better for it, credit to him
What a load of bullshit. From 'erm' to 'him'.

Wenger himself admitted that he was considering pulling Walcott because of some of the crowd.


"It's a disgrace and those who booed had no right"

Is what you said, like I said, nobody booed him. There was a lot of moans in the first half where he, I believe gave the ball away to Benoit Assou-Ekotto, moans of exasperation, and then people discussing that he needed to come off. No shouts of get him off, no boos directed at him. Wenger is talking about the incident I just referred to

If you want to call the crowd a disgrace for letting out an exasperated moan as Theo, who was having a terrible game and we were struggling at the time, then your calling pretty much the whole crowd a disgrace, or pretty much any other football fan whose let out a "oh for f**k sake!" in a similar situation (pretty much everybody)

Your also forgetting to mention the fact that Theos quotes from that article are from this interview...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXgOj_d5Ky8" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Where he's not talking about this specific game at all, he's asked the question about the criticism he gets from all angles "avalanche of criticism", and then admits he wasnt good today (in the first half) but through hard work he got his rewards. Nowhere in that interview are they talking about criticm from the crowd in this game, yet that article is written like it was (its a poorly written article basically)

Then, lets have a look at Wengers comments when asked..."Theo Walcott, in the first half, fans were on his back, how much character does that show to come back?"

Wengers response "I was scared for him because he missed a few controls and passes and I people went on his back" ....Thats all he says. No booing, no talk of thinking about taking him off, I have no doubt that people were saying he needed to come off, and at that time he did, he was having a shocker, but in no way was it done through booing, or shouting directly at Wenger, it was all murmurs in the crowd. I'm sorry but in no way is that a "disgrace" thats a natural fan reaction. I'd really like to know if you were at the game, because i've seen you call out the support like this before, and if i'm being honest, i'm getting tired of it, because its coming from a position where you've seemingly already made your mind up

Last edited by Cruisio on February 27th, 2012, 3:08 am, edited 1 time in total.

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DiamondGooner (Forum Member) on February 27th, 2012, 3:08 am

This is the front two I want to see, I don't think he offers anything as I've said previously out on the wing, all his good play comes from up front and in all fairness if he can't make it in his natural position he doesn't need to be at the club however I'm gonna jump the gun and and say of course he can do it I have faith.

Image
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DiamondGooner (Forum Member) on February 27th, 2012, 3:20 am

David Smith wrote:He's not a striker imo. I think Theo's best as a wide inside forward that can run into space between central defender and full back. That's what he was today.



No he was a Striker forced to play as a winger who doesn't want to play there so kept going up front anyway because he knew that is the only position he'd be able to offer anything to the team.

"He's not a striker imo" really? well go tell Theo that because he seems to think otherwise, maybe if you stop trolling on the obvious you will see the stark difference between Benayoun's more than ample performance out wide and past performances of Ox and compare what they offer "out wide" to Walcott.

I'm not going to list "again" all the skills a winger needs to have as part of our midfield which Theo does not have which is why he's getting lambasted by the fans and I don't think that's fair.

If this guy does go up front and is successful I doubt the poor git is gonna look back at this part of his career with fondness to be honest, just because he has pace that does not make him a winger anymore than it would have made Michael Owen one!
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DiamondGooner (Forum Member) on February 27th, 2012, 3:27 am

Oh and not wanting to clog up the page but one last thing after I watched match of the day I also noticed that when Theo was in the box it also gave RVP more space as Theo was dragging at least one defender away from RVP and giving the Spurs defence something else to be wary of instead of piling on to Robin. ;)
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AnthonyG (Administrator) on February 27th, 2012, 3:57 am

Cruisio wrote:I'd really like to know if you were at the game, because i've seen you call out the support like this before, and if i'm being honest, i'm getting tired of it, because its coming from a position where you've seemingly already made your mind up
Oh, give over - you'll actually note (if you bother to check) that I hardly ever comment on the crowd. (Though I know why you mistakenly think I do; see below). And if you want to split hairs over what 'booing' is, then go ahead. And you can side-step Wenger's comments all you want.

You had the same kinds of explanations for the Arshavin incident too, so you'll excuse me if I don't take your word as gospel or, even, seriously. I guess you're one of those who thinks Wenger just lies for the sake of it as what he says in relation to being asked about the crowd getting on Walcott is 100% clear and unambiguous.
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Cruisio (Forum Member) on February 27th, 2012, 4:12 am

Yet when you do your quick to call them a disgrace (very quick actually)

I'm not side stepping, go and watch the interview again, I can provide it for you if you really want me to? Also adding to the fact that nowhere does Arsène say he considered taking him off, The Guardian quotes it, sure, to suit the article they are writing (Theo turns jeers to cheers) but at no time does Wenger say what he is quoted to have said in that article (the section regarding considering subbing him). I believe what I said regarding Arshavin was that the decision was booed to replace AOC with Arshavin, nowhere did I deny that happened :D and that was actual booing

Ant, I heavily suggest you go back and read what you said, then actually WATCH the interviews with both Theo and Arsène and then go back and watch the game. As I said before, after I believe it was the 3rd time he lost the ball, the fans got annoyed, and thats a standard reaction in ANY game of football, groans were made (go back and watch the game, you'll be able to hear for yourself) but no boo, no shout to get him off, nothing. If you believe thats a disgrace them i'm afraid we're living in two very different worlds

For me personally, you seem to be very quick to defend Arsène and the need to get behind the team, and rightly so, but you go way too far with the stance so that whenever anyone dares to go against how YOU believe the team should be supported, you call them out on it every time as bad supporters or yet again a "disgrace", that for me, goes way too far the other side, creates a further division between supporters, and actually doesnt help a situation I genuinely believe your trying to improve

I employ you to ask anyone who was at the game if they thought the outward reaction to Theo today was OTT or truly awful, I genuinely believe you wont find anyone today. Infact, if you ever come down, i'll quite happily meet you, introduce you to the people I sit with and stewards etc, all who know me and all will tell you the same thing I just did. I wouldnt make this stuff up for the sake of it :D, and i'm a big fan of Theo (check any thread you like)
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redanddread (Forum Member) on February 27th, 2012, 4:13 am

I must say that I wouldn't have been ttoo unhappy had Theo been given the hook at 1/2time, he had been woeful. Fair credit to the lad though as he turned it around and scored two great goals, well great finishes anyway.

I would just like to see him improve his ball control and make more effort in games to get involved as too often he can drift out of games and look totally useless.

much has been said about his decision making with good reason.

As to his best position I can only see him playing out wide in our current set up. Should we play with two strikers then maybe he could play up front in tandem with an RVP.

He's really a bit too inconsistent throughout his career and certainly divides all and sundry but fair credit to the lad today. Two goals at home vs the Sp*ds!! A day he and we shall always remember.
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AFCG7 (Elite Member) on February 27th, 2012, 6:15 am

I dont know if anyone else noticed , but RVP on a few occasions was pointing to him and looked like he was telling Theo to get inside Assou-Ekotto..between him and King. Thats where Theo is more devastating , and something he needs to work on. Parking out wide and receiving the ball there doesnt always work for him , he needs to mix things up a bit so defenders wont know what to expect. And its true that RVP will get more space with Theo pulling at least one CB away from him.
I'm not sure though if Wenger instructs him to stay wide , thats also part of the problem..its not the right position for him to play in..he isnt a winger.
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Glovegun (Trusted Member) on February 27th, 2012, 11:17 am

Theo today showed what a few of us have been saying all season.

Yes he is limited.

Yes, he can be terrible.

But when you use him in the right way he can be devastating. His goals were what I'd call vintage Arsenal. Reminded me a little of Anelka or Overmars fifteen years ago.

If you try to drive a formula one car off-road it'll be useless. But if you put it on the track then you'll get more out of it. It's the same with Theo. What we need is an alternative to him in the games when opponents sit deep. Someone like Hleb with the close control and touch to do something in those tight situations. But then equally you wouldn't ever imagine Hleb racing onto those sort of the through balls and finishing like that.
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Anzac (Forum Member) on February 27th, 2012, 11:46 am

IMO Theo would be best utilised as part of a genuine front 3 as in a more traditional 433 as a wide forward in very much the style of the Barca front 3,
where the 2 wide men stay forward & wide until the ball is in the forward line & then they attack the channels.

His pace can be an asset used ACROSS the front of the defence to pull defenders out of position,
just as much as it can be used to get behind defenders when there is space to be utilised.
In fact he's done so before H v ManU for Nasri's 2nd goal where he ran from outside in across the area & dragged the CB & cover to create the gap for Nasri to move into & score.

At the moment he offers little width & was looking to come inside to attack the area ahead of the ball.
Similarly he accelerates far too quickly for his ball control & simply gets the ball stuck under his feet far too often when he has space & time on the ball.

IMO he's most effective bursting onto the ball in & around the area where he only needs 1-2 touches before shooting = keeping his play as explosive & instinctive as possible.

DJ_Markstar (Forum Member) on February 27th, 2012, 12:40 pm

redanddread wrote:I must say that I wouldn't have been ttoo unhappy had Theo been given the hook at 1/2time, he had been woeful. Fair credit to the lad though as he turned it around and scored two great goals, well great finishes anyway.

I would just like to see him improve his ball control and make more effort in games to get involved as too often he can drift out of games and look totally useless.

much has been said about his decision making with good reason.

As to his best position I can only see him playing out wide in our current set up. Should we play with two strikers then maybe he could play up front in tandem with an RVP.

He's really a bit too inconsistent throughout his career and certainly divides all and sundry but fair credit to the lad today. Two goals at home vs the Sp*ds!! A day he and we shall always remember.


I actually think he is too involved in games, and should be used as little as possible in the buildup play, simply in the team as a pace/finishing weapon and nothing more.
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Anzac (Forum Member) on February 27th, 2012, 12:49 pm

DJ_Markstar wrote:
redanddread wrote:I must say that I wouldn't have been ttoo unhappy had Theo been given the hook at 1/2time, he had been woeful. Fair credit to the lad though as he turned it around and scored two great goals, well great finishes anyway.

I would just like to see him improve his ball control and make more effort in games to get involved as too often he can drift out of games and look totally useless.

much has been said about his decision making with good reason.

As to his best position I can only see him playing out wide in our current set up. Should we play with two strikers then maybe he could play up front in tandem with an RVP.

He's really a bit too inconsistent throughout his career and certainly divides all and sundry but fair credit to the lad today. Two goals at home vs the Sp*ds!! A day he and we shall always remember.


I actually think he is too involved in games, and should be used as little as possible in the buildup play, simply in the team as a pace/finishing weapon and nothing more.


Agreed - just want him to make those runs coming from as wide as possible as square as possible & as late as possible,
even if it means he makes a run behind the attack & then looks to straighten into a gap.
IMO we've become too tunnel visioned re his speed as opposed to his acceleration - we keep thinking of him only in terms of straight line & needing space to get behind the defence.
His acceleration around the area is IMO under utilised as a weapon,
and he'd be unplayable if we drilled accordingly,
particularly with an instinctive playmaker & genuine movement off the ball.

DiamondGooner (Forum Member) on February 27th, 2012, 3:32 pm

The one thing he could do that is better than anyone we have is devastate a team chasing the game i.e Spurs yesterday.

The more they push up to try and get back in the game the more balls like what Song delivered for Walcott's 2nd will just become too easy, this will stifle our opposition because any less than 4 defenders against RVP and Walcott on the break .... you have serious problems.
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David Smith (Lobby Member) on February 27th, 2012, 8:56 pm

According to the recently released figures Walcott had already been on £70k p/w all this time. Therefore it's safe to assume the £80k p/w he's demanding is a fair shout.
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evoh_1 (Lobby Member) on February 27th, 2012, 9:13 pm

AnthonyG wrote:
Cruisio wrote:I'd really like to know if you were at the game, because i've seen you call out the support like this before, and if i'm being honest, i'm getting tired of it, because its coming from a position where you've seemingly already made your mind up
Oh, give over - you'll actually note (if you bother to check) that I hardly ever comment on the crowd. (Though I know why you mistakenly think I do; see below). And if you want to split hairs over what 'booing' is, then go ahead. And you can side-step Wenger's comments all you want.

You had the same kinds of explanations for the Arshavin incident too, so you'll excuse me if I don't take your word as gospel or, even, seriously. I guess you're one of those who thinks Wenger just lies for the sake of it as what he says in relation to being asked about the crowd getting on Walcott is 100% clear and unambiguous.



There was no booing anthony just jeers and groan when he lost the ball time and time again in the first half. I am in block 94 row 17 and i heard not a single boo all game or at half time, where were you at as maybe it was just around you that some idiot booed. Where do you go at the emirates?
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hesham (Forum Member) on February 27th, 2012, 9:31 pm

I was at the game, didn't hear any booing either tbh
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clockwork orange (Elite Member) on February 27th, 2012, 10:42 pm

After Robin celebrated the equaliser he went to Theo to talk about something. Maybe it was about the run into box Theo made (think it was Song who 'chipped' it to him), which was key in the creation of the goal (defenders followed Theo, Robin dropped off to receive 'clearance').
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Jbruin (Forum Member) on February 27th, 2012, 11:09 pm

clockwork orange wrote:After Robin celebrated the equaliser he went to Theo to talk about something. Maybe it was about the run into box Theo made (think it was Song who 'chipped' it to him), which was key in the creation of the goal (defenders followed Theo, Robin dropped off to receive 'clearance').


Yeh in the 2nd half that happened a few times, in particular for Rosicky's goal, you can see Robin arrived late into the box and Theo was ahead of him about 2 foot away from Rosicky when he scored, playing the the strikers position making a very good run. Could be a good ploy to use and I hope we do start trying to get Theo more involved through the middle, especially now we've got our full backs fit again.
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Floating (Trusted Member) on February 27th, 2012, 11:12 pm

Glovegun wrote:Theo today showed what a few of us have been saying all season.

Yes he is limited.

Yes, he can be terrible.

But when you use him in the right way he can be devastating.
His goals were what I'd call vintage Arsenal. Reminded me a little of Anelka or Overmars fifteen years ago.

If you try to drive a formula one car off-road it'll be useless. But if you put it on the track then you'll get more out of it. It's the same with Theo. What we need is an alternative to him in the games when opponents sit deep. Someone like Hleb with the close control and touch to do something in those tight situations. But then equally you wouldn't ever imagine Hleb racing onto those sort of the through balls and finishing like that.


Perfect post.

He's still just 22, mind. Hopefully in the next few years he will be able to be as devastating as we know he can more consistently.
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Airknight (Forum Member) on February 28th, 2012, 2:07 am

I don't think we'll start seeing more of this even if Theo gets a run as a striker, he needs everyone else basically working just to give him space, and the fact he was facing an atrocious defender (BAE) made things easier for him.

He can be devastating and we saw how much of a confidence player he is, but the question of how Theo can contribute actively when having a proper player trying to mark him out of the game (or a team just parking the bus) is still without answer.

Hopefully making the fans shut up was the boost he needed to start trying new things and develop into a more threatening player.

ebouenolike (Trusted Member) on February 28th, 2012, 2:15 am

David Smith wrote:According to the recently released figures Walcott had already been on £70k p/w all this time.


Link or you are talking out your arse.
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DJ_Markstar (Forum Member) on February 28th, 2012, 2:19 am

@ Airknight

BAE is not an atrocious defender. Seriously, why run him down just to bring Theo down?
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ebouenolike (Trusted Member) on February 28th, 2012, 2:22 am

DJ_Markstar wrote:@ Airknight

BAE is not an atrocious defender. Seriously, why run him down just to bring Theo down?


This. BAE has been in many people's team of the season.
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