False truth about player legacy!

Some create false theory and some just consume them without even thinking. It's almost general acceptance that if you don't win a lot of trophies as a footballer you won't be remembered and people will discard your career.
I don't think there's a bigger legacy than being an absolute legend of a club especially that has a support base as big as Arsenal.
I don't think Zola would look at Karembeu's career and say wow! Do you know Karembeu's won the most trophies as a french player? I don't think he will be remmebered in every football corner, will he?
Just look at Owen and Gerrard, it's almost forgotten that Owen won a ballon d'or and definately has a lot more medals than Gerrard but Gerrard will be the bigger football figure for eternity!
It's not just about Van Persie though obviously it applies to him, but wouldn't he gain more by sticking to his Arsenal and finishes his career on a high as an absolute legend than going to a let's say City for a couple of medals you are not even sure you will get or wouldn't have got had you kept your guns at Arsenal in the first place?

Nice post.

You would think that RVP would look at how Henry was received on his return and the love that the fans and club have for Bergkamp that will last far beyond their careers.

IF RVP leaves he will give up that, even if he plays two seasons at a top sides and wins medals he will never be remembered by any club for eternity in the same was as the above. Granted those two aforementioned players had the chance to enjoy championship and cup one after another so its not quite the same.

For me the era of players linking themselves to clubs fully, heart and soul, blood, sweat and tears has gone.

Remember the days when you just knew Keane was UTD through and through, or Adams/Keown/Parlour were "Arsenal" and there was nothing more to say......those days are long gone and will likely never return with the money that is being thrown around.

Not to mention the media pulling strings and players getting whispers in their ear from agents selling how wonderful the next club will be whilst they receive a fat cheque in the process.

If I looked at our side now I would struggle to pick one that may go down under the same category as the above.

Perhaps Vermaelen who recently stated he doesn't seem himself anywhere else in his career - but the rest, well, you get the feeling if the right offer came along they would be off.

Sad times.

Players want to win trophies or believe they are in with a fighting chance - even Tony Adams was concerned about the direction the club was going at some point. Vieira was the same, Thierry and on and on.

Gerrard has won a good bit at Liverpool tbf, and he did want to go to Chelsea to win that elusive PL but bottled it in the end.

Shearer on the other hand was content to go back to Newcastle, but he really should have went to United that Summer when Fergie wanted him IMO. Although I suppose Newcastle were in the mix for the title back then. He's assured legendary status up there, I know I'd rather have some medals/memories of winning trophies than a bunch of fat Geordie bastards singing my name.........but he did get a PL medal I suppose. Batistuta is another who deserved more success.

Even if RVP stayed, he'd need to produce a good few more quality seasons to be considered a legend. The bar is high at Arsenal.

The change in a word AGENTS simple as that, they want the cash from transfers and will convince a player that it is in his interest to do so whether it actually is or not. Robin shoud have heard what Henry said about leaving the club and thought about it but he wants to leave for the top pay and the titles, which Bergkamp, Adams and Keown actually won.

The best example in the current times that I can think of is Steven Gerard. He's stayed a loyal servant even though he could have upped for greener pastures long ago.

It's quite interesting when found out that we were almost sign Maradona in 1982.

"In March 1982, Arsenal were reported to be lining up a £4 million bid, which prompted one Labour MP to lodge a question to the sports minister in the House of Commons over the "scandalous" fee. Maradona, who had expressed a willingness to move to Highbury, ended up going to Barcelona shortly afterwards for £5 million."

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/columns/st ... en?cc=4716" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The best example in the current times that I can think of is Steven Gerard. He's stayed a loyal servant even though he could have upped for greener pastures long ago.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/footbal ... 653041.stm

It's quite interesting when found out that we were almost sign Maradona in 1982.

"In March 1982, Arsenal were reported to be lining up a £4 million bid, which prompted one Labour MP to lodge a question to the sports minister in the House of Commons over the "scandalous" fee. Maradona, who had expressed a willingness to move to Highbury, ended up going to Barcelona shortly afterwards for £5 million."

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/columns/st ... en?cc=4716" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

More disturbing IMO is the reference to Cruyff in '76,
considering the impact he's had on & off the pitch as player & manager at Barca.

Likewise AW got his valuation of Ronaldo VERY wrong,
and it seems that we'd cooled our interest BEFORE ManU became an issue.
And this at a time before Abramovich at CFC = gone are the days.

I don't think you can begrudge any footballer considered to be at the very top of their game, the desire to maximise their success. When Zola was at Chelsea, nobody considered them a realistic title threat and he never played Champions League football for them either if I remember rightly. He was in his 30s and there weren't many elite clubs who didn't have better, younger players than him.

Robin van Persie has been widely considered to be one of the best centre forwards in world football over the last 12 months. He knows his stock will never be as high and he has not tasted anywhere near the same level of success as his closest colleagues and friends. He wants to do that with Arsenal, but he wants to do it now. Like many of us, he is fed up of watching trophies pass us by because of abysmal defensive calamaties like the San Siro. Difference is he is not going through it as a fan with 40 or 50 attempts left, he is going through it as a player with maybe 4 or 5 attempts left. Arsenal want to show Robin guys like Alex Chamberlain and Ryo Miyaichi, who, talented as they may be - will not mature for another 6 or 7 years. He doesn't have that time.

There are very few elite players who accept cult hero status over trophies. Even Batistuta left Fiorentina to join Capello's Roma because he was fed up with being just a hero and having nothing to show for it in his career. Don't give me Alan Shearer because if Arsenal and Man Utd really wanted him they would have got him.

I mostly agree but Ferguson definitely did want Shearer, on more than one occasion IIRC and was turned down.

We can laud the loyalty of players like Bergkamp, but we should remember that Arsenal were a fantastic team for the majority of his time at the club. We won 3 league titles and 4 FA cups whilst he was with us, as well as making two European finals. And in the years we weren't successful, we were usually a miniscule amount behind Manchester United. We were a competitive outfit, which we aren't now, at least not for the big trophies. If we were muddling around fifth and fourth spot all season and getting tonked 8-2 at Old Trafford then it might've been a different story.

Not to have a go at Bergkamp at all, or praise Robin, but its unfair to judge one by the standards the other set when they were playing in two completely different environments.

Good point.

Good post. But as fabo somewhat alluded to, it's entirely possible that creating a legacy is not Van Persie's primary concern. Perhaps more than creating a legacy for himself, he wants to be able to feel the elation of winning a major trophy. If he could, would he choose both a legacy and the trophies? Of course. If Arsenal were challenging for trophies would he be looking for a way out? Probably not. But maybe the simple fact is that some world class players would rather experience what it feels like to win the biggest and the best competitions than creating that legacy.

Steven Gerrard is nowhere near the 'loyal' that people claim him to be.

Steven Gerrard is nowhere near the 'loyal' that people claim him to be.

The only reason he stuck around is due to mob threats. If you want loyalty you need to look no further than Dennis, Adams, Totti, Del Piero, Shearer, Le Tissier, Puyol <3, Xavi, Maldini etc

Steven Gerrard is nowhere near the 'loyal' that people claim him to be.

The only reason he stuck around is due to mob threats. If you want loyalty you need to look no further than Dennis, Adams, Totti, Del Piero, Shearer, Le Tissier, Puyol <3, Xavi, Maldini etc

Del Piero stuck with Juve after the match fixing scandal, which included moving down a league, now thats loyalty

It's unfair to judge one by the standards the other set when they were playing in two completely different environments.

I completely agree with that.

I don't think players like Henry, Vieira or Bergkamp would have stayed at the club for so many years, if they ended up for 3 or 4 seasons empty handed.

Also players like Totti, Xavi or Maldini were lucky to be born in a city with a successful football team and they chose to stay there because it's comfortable and I don't blame them for doing that. I just want to outline some nuances of 'loyalty'.
There's no reason to move abroad or the another club, it's risky and unnecessary. As long as you win trophies and you are also very well paid you're just fine. Totti has one of the biggest salaries in Serie A. He also won the league with AS Roma and became a world champion with Italy.

Also players like Totti, Xavi or Maldini were lucky to be born in a city with a successful football team and they chose to stay there because it's comfortable and I don't blame them for doing that. I just want to outline some nuances of 'loyalty'.

Totti, successful football team? He has maybe two or three club trophies to his name, in nearly twenty seasons at the club.

Xavi was similar until 08, three or four trophies until Guardiola was appointed. Those two players resp. their clubs are special cases though, Barcelona similarly to Bilbao would have loyal players regardless of their trophies because of their special history (Catalan and Basque culture etc.). I remember Joseba Etxeberria a few years ago who played his last full season at Bilbao without payment out of loyalty, and the club wasn't even in financial straits.

AS Roma is a similar case, they have a knack of producing very loyal players, the likes of De Rossi or Totti could have moved just about anywhere they wanted the last few seasons but they chose to stick with a club who's in a similar situation as us in the EPL - big club, but no trophies to show for it for a long time.

@Jones
Totti is one of Serie A's best paid players.

Likewise AW got his valuation of Ronaldo VERY wrong,
and it seems that we'd cooled our interest BEFORE ManU became an issue.
And this at a time before Abramovich at CFC = gone are the days.

A bit off topic but you can't criticise Wenger for that. He wanted Ronaldo but wasn't given the money due to the stadium financing.

Ronaldo left London Colney wearing an Arsenal shirt apparently. He was very close to joining Arsenal.

Ronaldo met AW three times and Ronaldo said it was "within touching distance" of being a done deal.

Ronaldo left London Colney wearing an Arsenal shirt apparently. He was very close to joining Arsenal.

Ronaldo met AW three times and Ronaldo said it was "within touching distance" of being a done deal.

Yeah, IIRC he visited Arsenal a day after the team lost to Southampton/the week leading up to Henry's hat trick against Roma.

Deal was very close to being done. Ronaldo still holds "immense esteem" towards Wenger for flying him out and meeting him in person; I think the deal didn't go through as his agency wanted more money/had tried to sell him to Liverpool under Houllier.

Different landscape in football now, players think of themselves in terms of image rights and status in football, Wilshere gets picked for pepsi ads alongside Messi and Co, Van Persie wants that status and the bucket loads of money on offer, I would do the same but you need to come out and say it, not try engineer some bullshit which stains your rep with the club, but it must be something about us Arsenal fans where ex players seem to not care a jot whether they spit on our name or not

Agree with Gerrard wrongly labeled as a legend, to everyone outside the red part of Liverpool knows he wanted to join Chelsea way back when Abramovich's millions rolled into their club.

The only player who people cryout as loyal is Giggs, but I do wonder had he been at any other club from childhood, would he have stayed so long or was he just the right guy at the right club at the right time.

The trouble now is money and player power. Will we ever see the likes of Tony Adams or Alan Shearer in the future? I think they will be few and far between and will have to be at a top club which is winning stuff. The sad fact is that the game has moved on drastically over the past 10years. The only people loyal to their clubs these days are their fans, and even then there is a alarming amount of fickle/plastic ones of those.

Gerrard is a legend.

In the end he didn't leave. The end.

The only player who people cryout as loyal is Giggs, but I do wonder had he been at any other club from childhood, would he have stayed so long or was he just the right guy at the right club at the right time.

I doubt anyone would have left Manchester United during their most successful era.

Ronaldo left London Colney wearing an Arsenal shirt apparently. He was very close to joining Arsenal.

Ronaldo met AW three times and Ronaldo said it was "within touching distance" of being a done deal.

Yeah, IIRC he visited Arsenal a day after the team lost to Southampton/the week leading up to Henry's hat trick against Roma.

Deal was very close to being done. Ronaldo still holds "immense esteem" towards Wenger for flying him out and meeting him in person; I think the deal didn't go through as his agency wanted more money/had tried to sell him to Liverpool under Houllier.

Yup, they met three times, Ronaldo's mum was there too. Deal was all but done when Manure came along bidding thrice what Arsenal were offering - Wenger's admitted as much. This, along with then assistant United coach Carlos Queiroz whispering some sweet Portuguese words in Cristiano's ears saw him end up in Manchester.

Just imagine we'd have gotten him. We'd have won things, and be 80 million pounds richer too. Massive loss.

£80m?

No, we'd have held out for the princely sum of £40-£50m and a bag of skittles.