English Premier League 2012/13

In short: Yes, I believe Man Utd get more decisions for various reasons, but I do NOT believe referee bias or a hidden agenda is the cause of it.

They do, they really do. And there is a hidden agenda behind it especially when you consider they get away with very very very very blatant decisions every every season since the 90s.

Mike Riley, the man who gave United that infamous penalty (the 8th he gave them in 8 games at OT) which meant the end of our unbeaten run, is now head of the referee association.

Bull****. I stated my view on the matter of referee "bias" in the league and you accuse me of being a WUM.

I respect your knowledge about West Ham, but I seriously question your support for Arsenal. As far as I can see you seem much more interested in Walcott's and Bendtner's careers than the team Arsenal. That is an opinion I stand by, but that accusation would perhaps had been a better fit in another thread.

YES, I believe Man Utd get more call because of someone like Ferguson. Do I believe the refs go into the game wearing a Man Utd shirt? No.

I don't believe that all referees go into the game wearing a Man Utd shirt. However, I'm certain that some of them do. Mike Riley's United bias was extreme. Mike Dean and Howard Webb are the contemporary house referees at Old Trafford ready to bail them out with absurd decisions when needed. It is enough with 2 (Dean and Webb) very pro-United referees to destroy the integrity of the whole league.

I've had this same discussion with people on KUMB.com. Fans tend to focus their anger on referees when they're in poor form. Either that, or a scapegoat within the team, or both even.

The problem is that the bias is there to be seen even when we win against United. In 2011 we had the blatant Vidic handball in the box (pictured above) where the assistant referee was perfectly positioned with a clear view but still not waved his flag. Vidic should had been sent off for denying a goal scoring opportunity. Vidic would thus had been banned in United's following game against Chelsea. Vidic got away with it and such things make me furious even if we win. It is too obvious.
It was the same at home in 2008/2009. Arsenal won 2-1 against United. At 2-0 there was a situation where Vidic fouled Nasri from behind in the box as the last defender and got nothing on the ball. Nasri was free with the keeper. No penalty. Howard Webb officiated the match.

In Europe such referee bias toward United does not exist. They are just another top club among others and do not get special treatment in CL.

In short: Yes, I believe Man Utd get more decisions for various reasons, but I do NOT believe referee bias or a hidden agenda is the cause of it.

There are too many absurd and indefendable decisions that go United's way for it to only be mentally weak referees that crack at Old Trafford.

http://www.debatabledecisions.com/tables

http://www.debatabledecisions.com/

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/manchester-united/9258810/Manchester-United-have-cause-for-complaint-as-unique-survey-highlights-Premier-League-errors.html

Those are your tables for you. ManUre should have won the league and we should have been in 4th and out of the CL. I dont think anybody is going to give a f**k about Spurs feeling hard done by.

You should be familiar with "source criticism" before you present such tables as "the truth". In the debatabledecisions.com links there are tables but no archieve with assessment of decisions - it is not possible to analyse the consistency and objectivity in their reviewing process.

Then there is another problem at debatabledecisions with a "real table" that totally ignores the concept of momentum.

RULES
Goals incorrectly ruled out will be given and goals incorrectly given will be ruled out.

Penalties that aren’t given will be given as a goal.

How the game may have changed after the goal is anybody’s guess, so goals scored after a debatable decision will remain unless they are also debatable decisions.

Take Ashley Young's dives against QPR and Aston Villa as textbook examples. Young dived against QPR at 0-0. Penalty for United and a red carded QPR player. In reality game over for QPR but probably registered as a 1-0 win for United in this table as they won the match 2-0. Young won another penalty against Aston Villa at 0-0. The game was probably counted as a 3-0 win in this table.

The telegraph link is laughable and clearly biased. This is what the same journalist at The Telegraph wrote about Chelsea vs United:
Chelsea 3 Manchester United 3. Adjusted score 3-4

Ashley Young doesn't always get penalty awards. A foul by Jose Bosingwa on the United winger waved away in a match when United came back from 3-0 down thanks to two penalties converted by Wayne Rooney. This study assumes he would have completed the hat-trick.

United denied 2 points they should have had
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/competitions/premier-league/9259700/Revealed-the-decisions-that-cost-Manchester-United-the-title-and-handed-the-Premier-League-to-City.html

I counter that biased article with a quote from a former PL player:

"To get a penalty at Old Trafford, Jaap Stam needs to take out a machine gun and riddle you with bullets and even then there will be much debate over whether you were shot in the penalty box or just outside." - Paolo Di Canio

Nothing has changed.

First of all - anyone claiming that there is scientific/mathematical proof of a bias is wrong. The sample size necessary to evaluate such a claim is far larger than a single season, hell its larger than multiple seasons.

For example, the 'Vidic handball' instance. My bet, and I may be wrong, is that the assistant who missed that has reffed few other games. So for him to miss it shouldn't be considered part of a trend - he simply missed it (ridiculously I may add).

http://www.debatabledecisions.com/tables

http://www.debatabledecisions.com/

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/manchester-united/9258810/Manchester-United-have-cause-for-complaint-as-unique-survey-highlights-Premier-League-errors.html

Those are your tables for you. ManUre should have won the league and we should have been in 4th and out of the CL. I dont think anybody is going to give a f**k about Spurs feeling hard done by.

You should be familiar with "source criticism" before you present such tables as "the truth". In the debatabledecisions.com links there are tables but no archieve with assessment of decisions - it is not possible to analyse the consistency and objectivity in their reviewing process.

Then there is another problem at debatabledecisions with a "real table" that totally ignores the concept of momentum.

RULES
Goals incorrectly ruled out will be given and goals incorrectly given will be ruled out.

Penalties that aren’t given will be given as a goal.

How the game may have changed after the goal is anybody’s guess, so goals scored after a debatable decision will remain unless they are also debatable decisions.

Take Ashley Young's dives against QPR and Aston Villa as textbook examples. Young dived against QPR at 0-0. Penalty for United and a red carded QPR player. In reality game over for QPR but probably registered as a 1-0 win for United in this table as they won the match 2-0. Young won another penalty against Aston Villa at 0-0. The game was probably counted as a 3-0 win in this table.

The telegraph link is laughable and clearly biased. This is what the same journalist at The Telegraph wrote about Chelsea vs United:
Chelsea 3 Manchester United 3. Adjusted score 3-4

Ashley Young doesn't always get penalty awards. A foul by Jose Bosingwa on the United winger waved away in a match when United came back from 3-0 down thanks to two penalties converted by Wayne Rooney. This study assumes he would have completed the hat-trick.

United denied 2 points they should have had
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/competitions/premier-league/9259700/Revealed-the-decisions-that-cost-Manchester-United-the-title-and-handed-the-Premier-League-to-City.html

I counter that biased article with a quote from a former PL player:

"To get a penalty at Old Trafford, Jaap Stam needs to take out a machine gun and riddle you with bullets and even then there will be much debate over whether you were shot in the penalty box or just outside." - Paolo Di Canio

Nothing has changed.

It is one possible version of the truth someone asked for tables which showed United being the biggest cheats and I posted a few I found. If you have a better source please do show yours. In fact, what is your source criticism? Where are the tables, archives, empirical evidence etc to support your own claims of United being the most favoured team in the EPL?

Mister controversy Webb being allowed to be the ref in certain crucial games for United is quite the empirical evidence.

He was also ref in the 2010 WC final so its hardly surprising if he's chosen to ref crucial EPL games.

It's absurd to claim that individual referees intend to favour Man United. If anything, I reckon they go out to prove the opposite, but end up giving them more decisions because of Ferguson. The guy exorts huge influence and is hell-bent on ruining any ref who he sees as have done them any wrong. He also clearly tells his players to harangue refs, starting with Keane and Stam and still going on today with Rooney and Ferdinand. Old Trafford can be an intimidating place.

Meh everyone feels hard done by the refs. Small teams feel they can't get decisions because refs are scared of big teams, big teams feel they can't get decisions because refs are scared to be seen as siding with them against the small teams. Everybody remembers the decisions that go against them not the ones that go for them.

http://www.debatabledecisions.com/tables" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.debatabledecisions.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/footba ... rrors.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Those are your tables for you. ManUre should have won the league and we should have been in 4th and out of the CL. I dont think anybody is going to give a f**k about Spurs feeling hard done by.

Fair enough, last time I checked that table looked a lot more realistic.

Arsenal being last on the table doesn't come as a surprise of course. It's not only that everyone feels the wrong decisions they had against themselves the hardest, you can tell by the regularity that these decisions come, over a prolonged period, that there's definitely some foul play/bias/whatever.

Take a look at those decisions we had "for" us:

Song stamp against Newcastle - ridiculous, he got a three-match ban later, and that game could have gone for 180 minutes and nobody would have scored.

Arshavin no 2nd yellow vs. Manure - yeah, would've made a big ******* difference.

Thomas pen. - Can't remember it to be honest. We were all over them that game though, so no big deal here either.

Miljas red - Seriously, only in the "Greatest League of the World" you'd have this discussion.


As mentioned before, the only clear decision we got for us was Drenthe's goal at Goodison, and I remember even saying at that time that I'd remember it as the first (and, as we see now, only) major decision we had for us in the season.

Could add/remove a few numbers of decisions to each team, especially the Manure list is laughable, just because one of their cheating ***** throws himself on the ground in the box it's not a "penalty shout", in return you could add about two or three "doubtful" penalties to their already considerable list.
No surprise that Stoke is also one club that the refs seem to either love or, more likely be afraid of, might be related to the fact that the Britannia is a shithole full of retarded apes (no offence to any Stokies here). Tottenham, as much as I despise them, this season also got a lot of decisions against them.

Must be exciting to be a united fan right now they really seem to be strengthening, with the purchase of kagawa and looks like there close to getting Lucas moura, also and an admittance to attempting to sign van persie, looks like old fergies really trying to go out with a bang ....

I know the grass is always greener on the other side, but this is getting ridiculous. Only at Arsenal you would get a 27 year old German international with more than 100 caps and the top scorer of Ligue 1, and be jealous of another club who's trying to sign a completely unproven Brazilian kid with an inflated price tag.

I know the grass is always greener on the other side, but this is getting ridiculous. Only at Arsenal you would get a 27 year old German international with more than 100 caps and the top scorer of Ligue 1, and be jealous of another club who's trying to sign a completely unproven Brazilian kid with an inflated price tag.

I would agree with you if we were not almost certainly about to lose our best player and captain.
United are not going to lose Rooney. City dont even care if they lose someone as they have 25 stupidly high quality players.

Are Podi and Giroud going to get more than 37 goals next season? Doubtful. So surely you can understand a less than ecstatic feeling at the moment.

Not to even say we are apparently going to assume Diaby and Wilshere are going to return to the squad being fit and ready to play a season of football. We clearly need atleast 1 or 2 midfield signings.

Why are we not selling anyone >.<

Not slating Podolski or giroud because they are quality signings, although i think you are overstating there credentials a little bit,

whats all this talk of jealousy ? i was just stating that they seem to be making efforts in signing a coveted talent in moura and kagawa but we have yet to replace Cesc or Nasri with players of similar talent,

and I guess 30 million for rooney or 17 million for Ronaldo is over inflated too ? you pay for what you get in today's market and like it or not Podolski and Giroud are bargain buys that may or may not work out where as moura is closer to being a guaranteed star .

Moura close to being a guaranteed star? Podolski and Giroud bargain buys? Where did you get that from?
Remember Anderson, the last Brazilian they got for an even higher sum? And remember RVP, and the price we paid for him?

The price very often does not reflect the true value of a player. I'd say that Manure show some intent if they bought some players who are sure to deliver. But if say, they get Lucas Moura and we get Cazorla for about half the Brazilian's price I'd be very content with our bargain buys.

Must be exciting to be a united fan right now they really seem to be strengthening, with the purchase of kagawa and looks like there close to getting Lucas moura, also and an admittance to attempting to sign van persie, looks like old fergies really trying to go out with a bang ....

Really they've only signed Kagawa. Who knows what else they'll do. United fans I talk to reckon theres very little money available and they'll have to sell to buy. Most think if Lucas comes in it'll mean Nani leaving. I wouldn't be a fan of such a move if I was them.

Real treat for the town of Fleetwood, with news that premiership star Joey Barton will be spending pre season with local club, Fleetwood Town.

Hope the younger players are like sponges and take in everything from this experience, a lot can be learnt from Barton.

Speaking of that knuckle-dragging, low-grade, thug, there are some absurd whispers that QPR is thinking about loaning Barton to a lower division side to speed up his 12-match ban:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18971248

If it came to them wanting to 'loan' him to a club for only the 12 matches, then I would hope the FA would reject the transfer of the ban.

Would love to see him loaned to some League Two outfit, including a few players giving him some of that good ol' English grit and passion, only for him to learn at the end of his spell that the ban still stands.

Must be exciting to be a united fan right now they really seem to be strengthening, with the purchase of kagawa and looks like there close to getting Lucas moura, also and an admittance to attempting to sign van persie, looks like old fergies really trying to go out with a bang ....

Think (hope) they might struggle a bit defensively. Smalling's out injured already and Ferdinand's crocked anyway. Also remains to be seen how Vidic comes back.

Shame that managers/clubs tolerate the POS that Barton is.

Should be out of the league by now

Not directly related to the epl, but rather a different epl team...

as one or two of you might recall, I happen to be somewhat indirectly employed by the same people who own liverpool. And they happened to be playing a match against roma at Fenway. So I had interesting access. I won't divulge too much though, just because you never can be too safe these days...

Tremendous experience. They did an excellent job of turning the ballpark into a home away from home for liverpool. Banners, signs, they even had their own version of the shankly gate at the main entrance. A bit over the top, yes, but perfect for Americans who crave this type of stuff. The fans were a bit of a letdown and barely sang, but it reflected how liverpool was playing anyway.

Also had the chance to meet just about all of the players and staff. I've met damn near all of the baseball players that come here, but these guys are definitely much more interesting and better than any mlb player. Some of the nicest athletes I've encountered. Staff was wonderful to deal with too.

So, while I know LFC is of course not too popular on here, I figured that I'd share this brief personal account of a little behind the scenes with a different club.



....but with that said, having thousands of scouser fans around me really made me strongly desire going back to north london for a bit...

Joey Barton agrees loan spell with Fleetwood Town... which will speed up his ban.

Good move by him, my only worry is that Barton will become a target in that league, for some.

Real treat for the town of Fleetwood, with news that premiership star Joey Barton will be spending pre season with local club, Fleetwood Town.

Hope the younger players are like sponges and take in everything from this experience, a lot can be learnt from Barton.

Good to see that sarcasm sometimes works on the internet.

Real treat for the town of Fleetwood, with news that premiership star Joey Barton will be spending pre season with local club, Fleetwood Town.

Hope the younger players are like sponges and take in everything from this experience, a lot can be learnt from Barton.

Good to see that sarcasm sometimes works on the internet.

Actually not, GDeep wasn't being sarcastic here.

Wait,what?
But that's Barton we're talking about here?
At least it gives me chance to use this for the first time:

GDeep holds a high opinion of Barton, yes.
Just ask him.

Could Chelsea struggle to penetrate defenses now that they've changed tact and style of play?

They seem so laborious vs Brighton it's just a little sad. And Hazard is looking more anonymous than Nasri

Yeah i read they lose 3-1 and chelsea play with alot first team players. not good from them.