New CAM or CDM?

Lets say we have only one top quality signing left which is pretty much the case as we may not even sign anyone else.

If you had to choose one which one would take priority?

I think its pretty balanced we have Song, Frimpong, Coquelin as CDM or Wilshere, Rosicky both backed up by Ox.

Both positions have two solid Arsenal veterans and both have a youth player which could be on the verge of making the jump in class this season.

The two I'm thinking of is Coquelin and Wilshere.

Yes Ox may be the best of the lot but his position either centre or out wide is still being toyed with at this stage of his development.

Wilshere on the other hand has been mooted to take his place in the first XI for a while now and if he can get into the groove post injury quick enough he surely will be looking to take the batton off of Rosicky for CAM, if he can become an Iniesta style attacking midfielder for us it could be great.
Coquelin also showed glimpses of excellence last year and is more dynamic than Frimpong.

So if its one or the other M'Vila or some other top CDM or a CAM?

For me it's 100% CAM.
Not being able to consistently create chances requires us to overcommit players at all times and that's why we are exposed so much so often.

CDM for me because I think Wilshere best position is just behind a ST. It might take him a few months to get back to his best and we might need to be a bit patient with him but we have Rosicky who has found his form back and that will give a bit of breathing room

http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archiv ... kamp-role-

Wenger - Wilshere can fill 'Bergkamp role'

By Chris Harris

Arsène Wenger believes Jack Wilshere will make his name in the role that Dennis Bergkamp filled with distinction.

The teenager has emerged as one of English football's brightest talents this season and, thus far, has operated on the right flank for Arsenal. However, Wilshere's manager thinks he has the attributes to succeed a certain Dutch legend in the middle of the park.

"I believe he will end up a central midfielder, just off the striker in the Bergkamp role," said Wenger during his exclusive webchat on Arsenal TV Online this week.

"I am convinced he will have tremendous penetrative power and we forget that this boy is only 16 and already has so much power - you give him four more years and he will be massively strong.

"He can find the final ball and can also score goals. He is a passionate and committed guy, he is not afraid of tackles and you would want this type of player to finish off central."

This has already been a landmark campaign for Wilshere. He made his Premier League debut at Blackburn and caught the eye during Arsenal's run to the Carling Cup Quarter-Finals, opening his account for the Club in the 6-0 win over Sheffield United. Wilshere then became the youngest player to represent the Club in European competition when he made his Champions League debut against Dynamo Kyiv last month aged 16 years and 329 days.

Wilshere has looked right at home at the top level but Wenger warned not to demand too much too soon from the Hertfordshire-born midfielder. After all, Wilshere does not turn 17 until New Year's Day.

"I would not like to put too much pressure on Jack because of the expectation level," said Wenger.

"That is one of the problems you have when you are talented and very young - Theo Walcott went through that.

"At the start there is a lot of enthusiasm around players, and suddenly afterwards people say 'oh he is not as good as we thought he would be', there is a lot of scepticism around the player. He has to survive at the top level and it is not easy.

"Theo coped well with that and I am confident we can surround Jack well enough to deal with it."

We really have no defensive midfielder other than Coquelin and he has his injury problems. Song is now a pretty good CM for me now and with a real CDM it will give us a lot of option between Song, Arteta and him.

CDM for me, partly as we have Wilshire coming back, partly because we have other options (Rosicky, Arteta, Ox), but partly because I think we need it defensively more than we need it offensively. Looking at our new attacking line-up (assuming RVP stays), I think we have enough there to create a lot of goals. But I still worry about our defensive resilience.

I'm still hoping for someone like M'Vila, or Capoue.

People seem awfully sure that Wilshere will slot in at CAM when he comes back. Not sure about it, was very wasteful in 2010/11.

That said, definitely CDM. Giroud wouldn't come here to sit on the bench, and if RVP leaves I'm sure he will play in a SS role. In any case, we already have an emerging CAM in Song, so a CDM next to Arteta needs to come in.

People seem awfully sure that Wilshere will slot in at CAM when he comes back. Not sure about it, was very wasteful in 2010/11.

That said, definitely CDM. Giroud wouldn't come here to sit on the bench, and if RVP leaves I'm sure he will play in a SS role. In any case, we already have an emerging CAM in Song, so a CDM next to Arteta needs to come in.

Song a CAM?? you can't be serious, he hardly has twinkle toes now does he.

Song is a deep lying CM at most!

Its an easy choice,we need a DM 100% On paper our defence does not look too bad, so how do we allow 49 goals to get past it? Answer, the cover for the defence is not good enough. Yes we need to create more but with Wilshire coming back, Ox, Arteta, Rosicky and Song we are ok.

Should have put a smiley there, was obviously (albeit half-) joking

My point is that Song roams far too often forward to be considered an anchor man. Hope he watches Pirlo's games this summer, so he can string those passes to RVP from our own half next season.

^ Oh right lol for a minute there I thought you had stopped taking your pills or something?

Well we need CAM because we dont have a midfielder can create chances. we need CDM because song is not CDM he is CM. its hard choice but i will go for CDM.

We need both obviously, but I'd be more comfortable if a new CDM was brought in leaving us with a choice of Wilshere/Rosicky/Chamberlain at CAM than having to rely on Song to actually get some tactical nous and sit in midfield to cover the defence. We WILL score goals next season, anybody who says otherwise if talking nonsense, if we don't bring in an M'Vila or even a De Rossi type player, we 'll continue to concede stupid goals.

So basically, a CDM is the main concern for us now, without doubt.

CDM. Our problem going forward last year wasn't in a lack of creating chances, but rather that only Van Persie could finish them.

Not sure which I want but just to say that having a 'dedicated' DM will not solve all our defensive problems. Even Makelele in his prime couldn't cover all the prime real estate our wingbacks and occasionally CBs(TV especially!) left open last season. As a team we have to learn how to move forward and defend more intelligently.

No matter who we bring in it wont matter unless we learn to defend as a team, closing down collectively will be key to us being compact at the back this season and conceding 20-30g in the season

But you need a big squad to do that we are not like Barca we cant have 60-65% possession in every game so we have to chase the ball a lot more than them and PL is a lot faster than La Liga so our players will get tired more quickly plus we have a packed fixture list

Quality squad depth and a will to keep clean sheet from the entire team will be key

CAM, i used to think what we had in this position was enough but last season showed clearly this is not the case. What if Wilshere takes his time to recover form? We'd be in exactly the same situation as last season.

CDM. Personally, I'd rather we just got rid of the CAM position altogether and returned to a triangle midfield with Song at the tip (the deepest position), but that's a different story.

We didn't exactly have problems scoring last season; like someone said, the problem was only one person could consistently finish. I mean, can you count the number of chances that fell to Ramsey, Gervinho, Walcott, etc that went begging?

Another deep lying midfielder would allow us greater control over games. We saw what happened when Arteta went down, and another player of that ilk would ensure our form didn't fluctuate as much. I don't see a huge problem with CAM by committee next season. Rosicky, Ramsey, and Wilshere can fight it out amongst themselves.

We need both IMO but it all depends what the midfield formation is next season. Which I mean will it be a (1-2) or (2-1). I think AW is after a defensive midfielder we've been linked with a few so far this summer. Don't know whether to believe the M'Vila rumours or not.

If we did sign a CAM it would be a versatile one, who would be able to play deeper or out wide.

Midfield options next season at the moment - Wilshere, Song, Arteta, Rosicky, Ramsey, Diaby, Coquelin (versatile player).

Wilshere will be back hopefully but it will be interesting where he plays. As in his Arsenal youth days he normally played in the number ten role behind the striker. But look how impressive he was in the deeper role in the 10/11 season.

People seem awfully sure that Wilshere will slot in at CAM when he comes back. Not sure about it, was very wasteful in 2010/11.

That said, definitely CDM. Giroud wouldn't come here to sit on the bench, and if RVP leaves I'm sure he will play in a SS role. In any case, we already have an emerging CAM in Song, so a CDM next to Arteta needs to come in.

Whether Giroud is used as backup or not, he sure as hell won't be permanently parked on the bench. I really don't understand why people always think that any significant purchase will immediately walk into the starting line-up. Wiltord and Reyes were amongst our most expensive signings under Wenger, and they both were seldom first choice. Wenger is not going to change our formation for Giroud, and he also won't be moving Van Persie from his best position. You can bank on that.

As for the other part of your statement, I agree. I don't think Wilshere is good enough yet to take over the reigns of the AM position. He's still best served in the deeper role in which he started his first team career.

DM is all we need. We have plenty of attackers a DM who can also play CB would be brillant

This is just a suggestion but what about a midfielder who can do both a versatile one. E.g. Yaya Toure for Man City he can as a defensive midfielder or playing in the more advanced attacking midfield role. There might not be many versatile midfielders out there who are available to buy, it was just a suggestion.

49 goals conceded = we need a defensive mid.

DM is all we need. We have plenty of attackers a DM who can also play CB would be brillant

Can you tell me please did you watch any of our games last season, not just results or reports?

49 goals conceded = we need a defensive mid.

Why? Maybe we need new cb's, full backs, goalie, maybe we play with wrong tactics, maybe we should press better, defend as a team, hold the ball better?
I watched almost every game last season and playing Arteta as a cover for Song and Ramsey was almost perfect. Arteta did a briliant job there (both in defence and organisation) so there is no reason to change anything in that position. Changing the way Song plays (or replacing him), or finding a better player then Ramsey in CAM would be much smarter then spending 25 milions on M'villa

This is just a suggestion but what about a midfielder who can do both a versatile one. E.g. Yaya Toure for Man City he can as a defensive midfielder or playing in the more advanced attacking midfield role. There might not be many versatile midfielders out there who are available to buy, it was just a suggestion.

I would say Arteta or Jack can do the same things you are asking for. But we lacked creativity and goals last season from CAM position and none of them can't add that

49 goals conceded = we need a defensive mid.

Why? Maybe we need new cb's, full backs, goalie, maybe we play with wrong tactics, maybe we should press better, defend as a team, hold the ball better?
I watched almost every game last season and playing Arteta as a cover for Song and Ramsey was almost perfect. Arteta did a briliant job there (both in defence and organisation) so there is no reason to change anything in that position. Changing the way Song plays (or replacing him), or finding a better player then Ramsey in CAM would be much smarter then spending 25 milions on M'villa

We don't need a new DM, but we should replace Song. What are you talking about?

And what makes you think that anyone would spend 25m on M'Vila?

49 goals conceded = we need a defensive mid.

Why? Maybe we need new cb's, full backs, goalie, maybe we play with wrong tactics, maybe we should press better, defend as a team, hold the ball better?
I watched almost every game last season and playing Arteta as a cover for Song and Ramsey was almost perfect. Arteta did a briliant job there (both in defence and organisation) so there is no reason to change anything in that position. Changing the way Song plays (or replacing him), or finding a better player then Ramsey in CAM would be much smarter then spending 25 milions on M'villa

We don't need a new DM, but we should replace Song. What are you talking about?

And what makes you think that anyone would spend 25m on M'Vila?

1. When is the last time Song played DM for us? The guy is trying to be next Cesc Fabregas in Arsenal.
2. I said he needs to change his game before "(or replacing him)" so i still have hope for him, only if he can do that, if he cant, there are much better atacking midfielders then him
3.I saw x times in newspapers that amount of money for M'villa, I didnt made that up

8 of those goals were from a demoralized makeshift team, and a good number of them were because of individual mistakes when defending by Szcz, Verms, Gibbs, will a CDM really fix that?.

I think most of our midfielders can do a decent job at DM (not free do whatever i want DM ala Song) but we ended lacking in attack last season when we couldn't get past some "lower teams"

In all fairness I think Song was more or less forced to push up field because quite frankly there wasn't enough being created or supplied to the forwards.

There was a big disconnect between the midfield and the attackers last season and from what I saw that was largely down to the wide players not linking up well enough or moving into space.

That actually makes me think that maybe a direct CAM like Wilshere or Ox might be a good idea as he would look to link directly with RVP, how many times I saw Rosicky looking for passes forward but no one was available was ridiculous.

As for the debate on what formation were going to play rest assured (c'mon we all know what it is) it will be a nice cautious 4-5-1 and you know it.

8 of those goals were from a demoralized makeshift team, and a good number of them were because of individual mistakes when defending by Szcz, Verms, Gibbs, will a CDM really fix that?.

I think most of our midfielders can do a decent job at DM (not free do whatever i want DM ala Song) but we ended lacking in attack last season when we couldn't get past some "lower teams"

For every individual mistake there was one from the midfield not tracking back. We've had games where teams strolled right through our midfield and straight to our defense, often pressuring our defense into making those individual mistakes. With Song often going up field we've been more vulnerable to counters, having an extra man who simply sits in front of the defense would make a world of difference in stopping teams from countering. Just the presence of another player would have either stopped or slowed counters so we could concede less goals.

Also the major problem we've had when Arteta is out is also very concerning. He played pretty much as a DM for many matches in covering Song and adding balance, keeping things ticking over which is why M'Vila is so yearned for as he fits the bill for that role so we should have someone to prevent the collapse we saw last season when Mikel was out.

I don't deny that a CAM is also important but there's also no denying the value of a quality DM. Which takes priority as i feel there may only be room for one midfield signing i don't know, especially with Wilshere's return to take into account and our lack of knowledge of where he will be played makes it difficult for anyone outside of Wenger himself to know the best course of action. The addition of Podolski and Giroud to the attack does however give a CDM more of an edge for me as much of the issue around spreading the responsibility for goals and creativity can be spread more which was a large part of the argument for a CAM.

For me CDM now, CAM next season.

Still not convinced a 'dedicated' DM will solve our defensive problem.
There's a systemic problem that needs fixing and maybe having Steve Bould on board as Wenger's assistant will help. Look at the stats from last season. out of our 49 conceded goals, only 17 of them were at home. Only 3 teams conceded fewer at home, i.e. City, Everton and Liverpool. We conceded the same as the Spuds, Newcastle and Sunderland. Flip to away goals and only Blackburn Rovers, Queens Park Rangers, Wolverhampton Wanderers ,Bolton Wanderers Norwich City Wigan Athletic,Newcastle United ,Swansea City and Stoke City conceded more than we did. So for us it's a tale of 2 teams. The home team that presses and plays with confidence vs the away team that too easily loses concentration. We did score the 3rd highest number of away goals to it's not like we can't play well away. For some reason we just didn't hunker down and defend the same way we did at home and to me that's implies a systemic problem that cannot be solved by one super DM otherwise Newcastle with Chiote (who a lot of teams want as a dedicated DM) wouldn't concede as many away too.