Wenger’s Reluctance to Buy from Within the Premiership

With the imminent arrival of Sahin that brings in a total of 4 players from outside of the Premier League to cut their cloth in this league. Finally Wenger is getting players who are ready to hit the ground running skill wise but the other angle is the constant time we have to give these players to bed in and get use to the completely different style/pace of the P/L compared to any other major league around.

The list of players Wenger has bought from within the P/L or with P/L Experience is very short after over a decade of Transfer Windows:-
Francis Jeffers/Campbell/Gallas/Silvestre/Arteta.

With the exception of Jeffers/Silvestre who shall never be mentioned again the other three have done a job for us and where able to hit the ground running and make an immediate start and impact – Campbell winning a load of trophies, Gallas making Captain before his mental breakdown and Arteta wasn’t far behind Van United and Kos for player of the season for Arsenal just gone.

While the other top clubs in the P/L have no worries about buying from other P/L Clubs (City & Utd from us) and mostly over pay as a result; but does the overpaying compensate for the fact they know what they are getting a reliable P/L player who can go straight into the team and compete – where as we have to constantly have a bedding period and their fore lose early momentum and results ala Sunderland.

A prime example was since Shity got their open wallet they built their first money bags team around proven P/L players which I feel gave them a quicker route to winning it a season or two earlier than I expected – Adbeyour/Bridge/Santa Cruz/K. Toure/Lescott and more.

Is it Wenger not willing to pay the extra money (British or not) or is it the compliments he receives for ‘finding’ another gem, or that most other players in the P/L are not technically good enough for Arsenal.

Reluctance is down to a few things:

Cost - is it worth paying a premium on a player due to playing in premier league?
Cost in relation to quality - looking at our signings this summer, can you think of a player similar to Cazorla in level of ability but available in the premier league for a similar price?
Needs - based on what we need at the moment I don't see many players in the premier league which should be prioritised over others from different leagues.
Lack of available quality is another point which is why a lot of shopping is done abroad by clubs.

I do agree it is important to have a core of experienced players though.

How many players do City,United and Chelski buy from within the Premiership? After the initial spend City limited themselves largely to Arsenal players. Chelski buy most of their players from abroad. They were close to signing Modric from Chelski. United, apart from van Persie and Berbatov from Spurs,have bought Smalling,Youngand Jones for major fees in recent years. We were interested in two of those three players, but eventually couldn't or wouldn't compete with what United had to offer.

Bottom line is that the top three will buy from Arsenal and Spurs when those clubs have quality to sell. They will rarely buy from other Premiership sides, unless the player is an outstandingly promising young player. When the latter is the case we tend to try and compete for their signature.

How many players outside of City,United,Chelski and Spurs squads would actually improve us?

A prime example was since Shity got their open wallet they built their first money bags team around proven P/L players which I feel gave them a quicker route to winning it a season or two earlier than I expected – Adbeyour/Bridge/Santa Cruz/K. Toure/Lescott and more.

Still the players who made the difference were from other leagues (Yaya, Silva, Aguero, Kompany, Hart, ...)

Is it Wenger not willing to pay the extra money (British or not) or is it the compliments he receives for ‘finding’ another gem, or that most other players in the P/L are not technically good enough for Arsenal.

Problem is that there are not too much EPL proven players that are not overpriced. Supposed we want to buy Fellaini or Dembele as a replacement for Song. We would have to pay +£20m to buy these guys. If you look somewhere else, you pay much less for the same or better quality. Only difference is that they don't have the experience of EPL. Is it a big deal? I don't think so. The right players (direct quality) don't need time to adapt (look at Cazorla, Mata, Silva, Yaya, Hazard, ...).

I was swaying extra costs against what is already proven that your target is already able to handle and play at a high level in this League - where our past shopping has been done with quality in mind that is not questioned but quality and being able to play in this league are two different things look at Vela & Reyes as two quick examples of this.

Lack of available quality is prob the more reasonable explanation but 5 players coming in during Wengers time here is very very low - are we saying after more than a decade in the P/L no more players interested Wenger from fellow P/L clubs. Players that could have done a job from the off.

The only exception that seemed to get away was Alonso.

The majority of players good enough to slot into our first team are at top-5/6 clubs, all of which would be extremely reluctant to sell to us as a rival, and would therefore demand a hefty premium, so there just isn't as much value available as in other leagues.

Man city are a pretty bad example, as most would admit they overpaid for ther prem players. They offer enough to make it too good to refuse, something which we really can't do.

But I agree in some cases where players from lesser clubs are available, but even those still come at a premium.

Buying Premier League proven players with the requisite talent is extremely expensive. Considering our approach to business, we simply will not make non-cost-effective signings, hence our penchant to buy abroad.

City's initial splurge on proven Premier League players was only ever intended to help push them up the League table faster. I don't think anybody ever expected the likes of Santa Cruz, Bridge, etc to take them to a title or a Champions League final.

That also effectively sums up what the majority of the standout players in weaker teams are. Solid, effective players who know the league well and can do a job against most of the teams here, but struggle to make the step up to the top European level. One of the benefits of buying from other leagues is that we can buy from the top clubs instead of the mid table dwellers, and while some of them might not be significantly better than the average 8th place club in the Premier League, they are more likely to have experience being a top dog, which means they are more accustomed to the pressure of being expected to contend at the top. There's also some that even have experience in the Champions League already, such as Eduardo, Podolski, etc.

The price though, is probably what appeals to someone like Wenger most. It's true that buying from within usually means you get a safer product, but you also likely have to pay more. Since you're buying from within, it's likely the player is more well known within the country, and since his reputation is higher, his perceived value will go up. Conversely, a player from other leagues is usually lesser known in the country of the buying club, so the price can usually be knocked down more, even if the player is not necessarily worse. For a born economist like Wenger, this is an absolute gold mine.

I agree with you Iced22 esp with the signings city made initally as that was a point I did make but in those purchases they did buy a safe reliable player who then allowed them to introduce the likes of the other foreign league signings to bed in quicker without damaging them when it came to results - something we do not do - or more importatnly do not have the luxary to do.

I am not quipping about Wengers Signings as he makes money and stars and we have witnessed the devlopment of many a star wearing the famous cannon -It is though an odd fact when you try to list the players he has signed from what is said is the hardest league in the world.

It's basically footballing arbitrage, to steal the finance term. In this case, Wenger profits via the "spread" between a player's atual quality and his known quality in England. The latter is impossible to be certain about, but I think that Wenger's track record shows that good scouting trumps luck over the long run.

You'll notice that we do compete with the other top 4 quite well for top _young_ English talent a la Wilshire, Ox, etc. I think that Wenger wants a strong contingent of English players, but as other have said, he'd rather develop them than pay over the odds.

A related point which has often been discussed on here is that our highly technical style is difficult for the majority of English players to adapt to. Consider the players who seem likely to form the core of England's future (and hopefully more technical) midfield: Cleverly, Wilshire, and Ox come to mind (though the latter might also play winger for the NT even if he plays centrally for us), and we own two of them.

In short, there are lots of reasons (value for money, dearth of domestic technical quality, the reluctance top English sides to sell players to one another except when across a barrell due to contracts, etc) to sign players from abroad, and really only one (bedding-in time) to buy domestic. I would argue that buying a player from a foreign league isn't as less risky than buying premier league players as people think: liverpool is a great example of that, as is el nino for Chelsea, etc. When you have a manager with Wenger's experience and scouting network, thinking through the issue makes it easy to see why we rarely buy local (at least for older players).

2 Reasons

Price - world class potential, which is what he looks for costs too much in the PL. We just signed the best striker from France and Germany for 12million, the best strikers in the PL go for 25-50m.

Rival factor - most top6 teams aren't going to want to sell their best players. We can only get players they don't want, ie Benayoun.

Average players - outside of the top6 (and Liverpool) the quality of players is generally weak. The best at the moment are probably Sessegnon, Dempsey, Dembelle, Baines, Fellaini. The Fulham 2 people wouldn't want and Everton want 18million for Baines so Fellaini too would be expensive. Sessegnon would probably be a good signing but not cheap either

PL players do not guarantee they'll play well - just look at top players like Torres, Berbatov or decent potentials like Jeffers for us


Wenger has gone for but not got several PL players, such as:

Cahill - We had a reasonable bid rejected
Jagielka - I think we bid good money and didn't get him
Samba - did we bid for him?
Joe Allen - supposedly enquired, he went for 15million more than Cazorla, would you prefer Joe Allen?
Alonso - should have got him but he wasn't cheap
Joey Barton - according to him we were close to signing him until the Gervinho incident
Phil Jones
Joe Cole - offered him a contract, Liverpool offered a bigger and longer one

Downing, Henderson, Carroll, Adebayor, Toure, Nasri, Carrick, Rooney, Berbatov, Ferdinand, Bentley Santa Cruz, Glen Johnson.

Liverpool's transfer dealings in recent years have been downright retarded. Incredible how a club can spend close to 100m and finish worse than the season before.

I haven't seen much of Moses but he really impressed me for Wigan during their amazing run at the end of last season. Seems a perfect fit for us. English, Pacy, physical, good technique and a lot of room for improvement. Could arguably become a starter for us from the little I've seen. I base this on probably 3-5 matches so I don't really know how consistent he is and if hes got vision to match his other attributes though.

It's value for money imo. Players within the league cost too much compared to the ones brought in from abroad.

agree with chappers.

might be too early to say with moses, but he does seem capable of playing for a better team. id have him as a squad player, and wouldnt be surprised if he ousted theo within a year.

but i think if he goes anywhere itl be to chelsea.

I'm sure money does come into it, but across all of Europe's major leagues, the big clubs hoover up the talent from the less successful ones in their own league. We are pretty conspicious by our absence in that respect, probably the only major club around who buys players almost exclusively from abroad.

I think there are bargains around to be had, and hopefully the signings of Chamberlain and Ramsey show that AW is recongising that there is a pool of talent in the academies of some of the lower league clubs that can be exploited. Lescott, Young, Walker, Jagielka and a fair few others have all made the step-up in recent years, so it will be interesting to see if we go in for kids like Luke Shaw again this summer.

Think it's down to cost personally, buying from within the premier league and england will generally cost more than bringing in players from abroad.

Bigger name players from the PL cost retarded amounts of money really(look at pool, city, chelsea and united for examples), that limits us toyoung players, people running down their contracts and players that don't have a big name or much hype around them.

As many have said, you need a lot more money to get a Champaions League quality player from within the Premier League than you do from abroad. The rival factor as mentioned is one of the reasons for that. Had Man U sold David Beckham to us or Chelsea instead of Real Madrid, we would have paid alot more than £23m for him.

There are merits however to overpaying for a player you get from a rival club. One could argue that the premium is offset by the de-stabilising effect caused to your rival. By doing so however, you are gambling that the player will perform at least as well if not better than they did at their previous club. There are ofcourse no guarantees to this, as Liverpool fans will testify with Carroll.

Wenger recognises that Arsenal are not in a position where we can afford to gamble and incur significant losses on our investments, because if we do, we are unlikely to see that money again. That's not to say the money isn't there, just that its a limited resource. Man City however can lose £88m a year and continue to operate like nothing happened, so it's a different scenario for them.

I doubt there are many, if any better managers around for getting a bang for your buck than Arsène. That's why the board will never sack the guy. They know that nobody else would be able to work within those constraints and deliver the same ratio of points to net spend. Wenger's knowledge of players globally also makes it easir for him to resist the temptation of first looking in England for a player. He is also cognisant of his standing at the club and knows that he won't be fired if a player he signs doesn't fire on all cylinders in their first season.

PL players just cause unreasonably more than those outside of it. It's that simple, pretty much.

We did get Arteta and Benayoun though last season.

I'll repeat my earlier point. Wenger does go for good players domestically.

Walcott, the Ox and Ramsey were bought for a total of 30 million. We tried for Smalling and Jones, but lost out to the Mancs.

We were after Alonso and Reina from Liverpool. We were in for Jagielka. Our bid for Cahill was rejected by Bolton.

Arteta and Yossi were signed.


We can't afford players from City, Chelsea,United,Liverpool or Spurs. The bigger clubs outside of the elite like Newcastle,Everton and Villa will pay their best players as much or more than we are prepared to offer.

Whats left for Arsène to sign?

Walcott, the Ox and Ramsey were bought for a total of 30 million. We tried for Smalling and Jones, but lost out to the Mancs.

We were after Alonso and Reina from Liverpool. We were in for Jagielka. Our bid for Cahill was rejected by Bolton.

Arteta and Yossi were signed.

To be fair, Walcott, the Ox and Ramsey were not signed from the Premiership, so to some extent they were a punt by Wenger, similar to when he signed Jenkinson, from a lower league.

Two other players you mentioned would have done well here Alonso and Reina and possibly Cahill as well, but Wenger refused to pay the extra couple of million to sign Alonso, and the going price for Reina and Cahill.
I feel all these players would have done well here.

Like you say Arteta and Benahoun were bought from within the EPL and both did very well.
So in a way, it confirms that buying from the EPL rather than taking a punt with players that have never played in this league, is preferable, even if it is more expensive.

Surely a player that plays regularly for a club in this country against the same teams as we do should be able to move to a club like ours with little or no adjustment necessary.

Players like Squillaci, Chamakh, Park, etc all needed time to adjust, and simply were not up to playing at the level required in the EPL.

Buying from within our league means Wenger can see for himself what a player is like against the same opposition we play, in the same league.

Surely this must be a big advantage.

Walcott, the Ox and Ramsey were bought for a total of 30 million. We tried for Smalling and Jones, but lost out to the Mancs.

We were after Alonso and Reina from Liverpool. We were in for Jagielka. Our bid for Cahill was rejected by Bolton.

Arteta and Yossi were signed.

To be fair, Walcott, the Ox and Ramsey were not signed from the Premiership, so to some extent they were a punt by Wenger, similar to when he signed Jenkinson, from a lower league.

Two other players you mentioned would have done well here Alonso and Reina and possibly Cahill as well, but Wenger refused to pay the extra couple of million to sign Alonso, and the going price for Reina and Cahill.
I feel all these players would have done well here.

Like you say Arteta and Benahoun were bought from within the EPL and both did very well.
So in a way, it confirms that buying from the EPL rather than taking a punt with players that have never played in this league, is preferable, even if it is more expensive.

Surely a player that plays regularly for a club in this country against the same teams as we do should be able to move to a club like ours with little or no adjustment necessary.

Players like Squillaci, Chamakh, Park, etc all needed time to adjust, and simply were not up to playing at the level required in the EPL.

Buying from within our league means Wenger can see for himself what a player is like against the same opposition we play, in the same league.

Surely this must be a big advantage.

I agree with you that buying domestically guarantees a higher success rate than buying from abroad. I included the three young buys from the Championship because they have the same advantages as Premiership players over arrivals from overseas (language, familiarity with the style of play, culture etc).

I don't think you are right to blame Wenger for missing out on the likes of Alonso,Reina and Cahill though. The manager identifies the players he wants. He obviously requested those players. Whether the club then manage to sign them is largely out of the managers hands. In the case of Smalling and Jones United paid more than we were prepared to pay, and in the case of Alonso,Reina and Cahill we failed to match the asking price. Not sure how Wenger is responsible for that.

You always pay a premium if you buy within your own league. Just ask Liverpool. Cazorla cost as much as Allen.

Thats the sole reason a_fourteen. And it makes sense as well. Its much cheaper to buy from outside the league. The clubs within the league knows your weakness and will fleece you.

I also believe the reason is the inflated prices of British players and also foreign players with EPL experience. I think Liverpool are a pretty good example of buying from within the EPL and how that can really f**k things up. And they don't seem to learn either as they payed the same for Joe Allen as we did for Cazorla. Also, Podolski and Giroud were both about the same price as was quoted to Sunderland for Steven Fletcher.

Most important reason must be the cost and somewhat overinflated values of English players.
It would be simply unbelievable that after 16 years spent here a manager like Wenger wouldn't want or be able to find players within our league he thinks would improve our team.

I don't think you are right to blame Wenger for missing out on the likes of Alonso,Reina and Cahill though. The manager identifies the players he wants. He obviously requested those players. Whether the club then manage to sign them is largely out of the managers hands. In the case of Smalling and Jones United paid more than we were prepared to pay, and in the case of Alonso,Reina and Cahill we failed to match the asking price. Not sure how Wenger is responsible for that.

You're probably right about Wenger not being responsible for missing out on several transfer targets.

It is frustrating how many players we miss out on because our board won't pay a bit extra.
How many other top clubs lose out on signings on such a regular basis.

Its because of the price you pay. United paid stupid money for the likes of Carrick, Berbatov, Ferdinand I cannot remember how much they bought Valencia for, Young was expensive as well. Chelsea got a lot of their early core from within the Premier League, Lampard, Duff, Bridge, SWP but again none of these players were cheap.

We on the other hand have shown interest in different players from Hangland to Cahill etc but for reasons unknown never sealed the deal. It does IMO show that buying from within the Premier League can make a difference as those teams that have won anything recently have bought players from within the league and it is something we should start doing.

Its because of the price you pay. United paid stupid money for the likes of Carrick, Berbatov, Ferdinand I cannot remember how much they bought Valencia for, Young was expensive as well. Chelsea got a lot of their early core from within the Premier League, Lampard, Duff, Bridge, SWP but again none of these players were cheap.

We on the other hand have shown interest in different players from Hangland to Cahill etc but for reasons unknown never sealed the deal. It does IMO show that buying from within the Premier League can make a difference as those teams that have won anything recently have bought players from within the league and it is something we should start doing.

This is right.
Man u bought Valencia for about 17m.

We clearly cannot compete with the likes of Man u, Man City or Chelsea, but it is no coincidence they have spent a lot of money on players from this league and between them have won nearly all the big trophies.

I am not suggesting we try and compete with these rich clubs, but one or two signings like Alonso, Hangeland, Schwarzer, Given etc would not have broken the bank and would have given us the extra needed when we were short in those positions.

Also taking a gamble on players from the French league, like Chamakh, Park, Squillaci and Giroud might save a few million but the Ligue 1 is no comparison to our league.

The obvious answer would be to buy players from the EPL to compliment what we already have.

It certainly worked with the signing of Arteta and Benayoun on loan and if we need certain positions filled as a matter of urgency, due to injury or a player being sold, then a ready to go player from the EPL would seem the ideal choice.

It would mean that our board would have to invest a bit more money but would also give Wenger more chance of catching the bigger clubs up.

I think that it comes down to costs as a large part, inflated perhaps by a reluctance by the selling club to want to sell to a club who this player is going to come back and play against them atleast twice the next year, which isnt always in your best interest. So, selling to a rival is going to push the prices up (more so if their English)