Spurs: More footballing ambitions than Arsenal?

I guess the question is not if, but when did it start?

Ever since we moved to the Emirates, which was supposedly a good move - more economically I presume, our football ambitions seem to have gone down with Highbury.

A certain white jersey club thought to be always in our shadows has probably climbed to equal level, or at least closer than ever in recent history. This is not just any other club, but our North London rival.

Credits to the backtracking of Arsenal and the advancing Tottenham, the distance between the two club has reduced greatly, and so it the unique lure for good players to the Gunners.

Without doubt Arsenal is the bigger club globally, but with regards to footballing ambitions and the happiness level of both fans? It is getting difficult to say the same as Arsenal continue to lose out on major competitions, transfer targets, and more importantly, failed to keep best players every season.

It is not always the title, trophy & glory, but for a club of such huge stature that says being second best is as good as a winning is getting insulting and pathetic. It is killing the passion.




This window is not surprising, Arsenal lost 2 of the best players of last season - even voted so in Arsenal.com. Every fan should be familiar by now the departure of Song to Barcelona, and RVP's debut volley goal (for Man Utd).

Now Walcott is thought to be leaving too, to who else but the ex-Arsenal club, also known as Man City who has a very appealing away jersey thanks to us. No doubt some fans are okay with his depature (if we ever re-invest it). A transfer fee thought to be 15M is already causing serious dissatisfaction considering it is the price Arsenal paid a couple of years ago.

There is still a little bit of time left in the transfer window, but can Arsenal make any significant signings, in time? Or will the board and Wenger continue to appease fans with flowery and delusional quotes?

Certainly this is getting tiring and hard to watch, but we still watch on as deadline day looms in.



Let's look at a possible scenario at Arsenal:

RVP, Song, Walcott & Deadwoods - OUT

Podolski, Giroud, Cazorla - IN

Very good profit from the above, as with the recent trophyless seasons, and more glaring since Gazi+Stan combo took over.




Oh, almost forget about Spurs in the topic:

Modric + any other filler - OUT

Adebayor, Dembele, Lloris plus 1 more - IN

On a footballing pov, they certainly will do very well from the above scenario.

They know their problems, be it deadwood or insufficient depth, and they resolve them as quickly as they can.

Now back to Arsenal, what are we doing? Same old problems from almost a decade ago? And it is really the same old problems.

no.

hahaha




no

Some people shouldn't be allowed to create threads.

Explain yourselves then and make your point.. this is a forum, not a dictatorship. Thanks for making the effort to post comments.

Imo, the last 5 years certainly cast doubts on Arsenal's priorities.

it's a valid point topic of discussion... simply because this is a forum and in a forum people come together to discuss ideas and talk about common interests.

now of course it hurts to say it and no one wants to admit it but the gap between Arsenal and Tottenham has been getting smaller and smaller...

between 2000 and up until the 2007-08 season, Spuds were unable to beat Arsenal even once! Since the 2007-08 we've played them 13 times... they've beaten us 4 times (including the 5-1 trashing), tied 4 times... and we've beaten them 5 times times...

if that's not an indication of a closing gap i don't know what is!

I think it's a pretty fair question.

IMO their ambition is a lot lower than ours. For now they want to break into the top 4, whereas we want to win **** (i'm assuming).

But to me it looks like they're working a lot harder to reach their goal than we are.

Obviously other factors come into it, like finances or players wanting to leave. But the past couple of years it seems like they've gone in to overdrive to close the gap.

You make some valid points, but in terms of genuine football ambition it's only become clearer in recent seasons that Tottenham have shown their aggressiveness within the market and interest in toppling us and breaking into the top four.

However, we're currently in a (LONG) period of transition while Tottenham have a big investor and are obviously appealing to players as an ambitious project.

But objectively speaking we're by far the bigger club and while Wenger is at the helm we'll always have the allure over players deciding whither to join us or Tottenham.

Sadly, your point about the gap having hugely reduced is true. Although the competition for Champions League places has risen dramatically, it's to be expected.

I think Spuds have been playing it quite smart for a while now, but overall it's not a question of them having more 'ambitions' than us because they don't. Agree with it or not we have a long-term plan in place and even at our 'lowest' we're still higher than them.

I remember not long ago some were praising Spuds for locking down Modric, which admittedly they did, but even then they had to sell rat-boy because he knew he was too good for them. (Or thought he was, as I think he's massively overrated). Point is, we're still Arsenal and they are still, and forever, Nth London's backdoor boys.

Oh dear

Some people shouldn't be allowed to create threads.

This

Two days ago, Tottenham were a team in dissaray, a statement backed up by their poor start to the season in terms of results and performances.

They sell one of the best players they have ever had at the club and replace him with an overated Belgian playing in a postition that he has next to no experience in and all of a sudden they are considered by some more ambitious than Arsenal.

Get a grip of yourself.

Some people shouldn't be allowed to create threads.

This

Two days ago, Tottenham were a team in dissaray, a statement backed up by their poor start to the season in terms of results and performances.

They sell one of the best players they have ever had at the club and replace him with an overated Belgian playing in a postition that he has next to no experience in and all of a sudden they are considered by some more ambitious than Arsenal.

Get a grip of yourself.

So if we're to judge by a couple of games at the beginning of the season then that means they were a lot more ambitious than we were last season... hate to bring this up but, 8-2?!!

anyway...


Arsenal is still more attractive for a number of reasons:

1) avg wage at Arsenal is 61.5 thousand pounds a week while it's 44.4 thousand pounds at Tottenham
2) we are just a bigger club with a much larger fan base and a greater history... we have the 5th largest annual revenue in the world of football (behind giants like Real Madrid, Barca, ManU and Bayern)
3) the players are guaranteed to play at UCL every year where as in Tottenham it's hit and miss... even in their best years
4) finally, i might get grilled for this, but Arsène Wenger himself is an attraction... players want to play for him to improve their games


but Tottenham are really trying... and have closed the gap somewhat... i think sacking of Redknapp was a big mistake and they'll pay the price for it this year.

Some awesome threads lately, heh.

Guess this is because of the transfers, but there's a reason they haven't taken our spot as a top 4 club or one of London two biggests.

This

Two days ago, Tottenham were a team in dissaray, a statement backed up by their poor start to the season in terms of results and performances.

They sell one of the best players they have ever had at the club and replace him with an overated Belgian playing in a postition that he has next to no experience in and all of a sudden they are considered by some more ambitious than Arsenal.

Get a grip of yourself.

So if we're to judge by a couple of games at the beginning of the season then that means they were a lot more ambitious than we were last season... hate to bring this up but, 8-2?!!

What are you even talking about?

but Tottenham are really trying... and have closed the gap somewhat... i think sacking of Redknapp was a big mistake and they'll pay the price for it this year.

Not going to get into this because it will take this fantastic thread off topic but anyone who thinks that sacking Redknapp was a mistake is dillusional.

It seems like they do at the moment. I get the feeling their hilarious capitulation last season has lit a burning desire within the club to finally surpass us on the table.

They have hired a meticulous and ambitious manager, who in turn is signing young quality players who are yet to hit their peaks (bar Greedy). If he can get them to play his way then I feel they will be quite a strong side this season.

Ever since we moved to the Emirates, which was supposedly a good move - more economically I presume, our football ambitions seem to have gone down with Highbury.

Do you understand that building the Emirates was a massive financial undertaking, and that we are still paying off debts for it and will be for a few years?

What a dreadful thread.

Some people shouldn't be allowed to create threads.

This

Two days ago, Tottenham were a team in dissaray, a statement backed up by their poor start to the season in terms of results and performances.

They sell one of the best players they have ever had at the club and replace him with an overated Belgian playing in a postition that he has next to no experience in and all of a sudden they are considered by some more ambitious than Arsenal.

Get a grip of yourself.

Overrated?

This forum would be creaming itself if we signed Dembele.

That is true, but Spurs still look quite disjointed, and AvB's history in EPL isn't a great one so far.

Not too worried about them this season.

OP is a spuds fan(latent)?

^^ Now now, that post looks like a RAWK one

Some people shouldn't be allowed to create threads.

This

Two days ago, Tottenham were a team in dissaray, a statement backed up by their poor start to the season in terms of results and performances.

They sell one of the best players they have ever had at the club

Get a grip of yourself.

Replace tottenham with Arsenal and you're dangerously close to describing us just one year ago. The only difference is that they're actually making an effort to bring in quality players, whereas we scrambled on the last day to find anything.

I think we became too pampered in our own success. We never had the question of IF we beat them, but only by how much and therefore people assume that will always be the case.

Those days are over folks. It's not 2004, henry isn't scoring against them for fun. Yes, we beat them 5-2 in a comeback, but you get 3pts all the same as when they beat us 3-2...in a comeback. And yes, we got 3rd ahead of them...courtesy of a keeper having one of the worst matches of his life.

I'm by no means a tottenham fan, but sometimes you have to look without the arsenal goggles on.

They aren't as good as us, and I think we still have a certain allure that they lack...but take away CL football (which we've come dangerously close to doing) and what do we have other than our history that makes us better than them?


bump this after our first NLD this year...I'm sure it'll be fun.

Their ambition is to be a top 4 team and qualify for the CL, which incidentally is our goal also. So I say they have as much ambitions as we do. If the question is whether they are a bigger club, then of course not.

I assume this is based on transfers? here's a list of relevant footballs transfers of both clubs in the last 5 years.

Tottenham outbound 2012:
Ryan Nelsen, Luka Modric, Steven Pienaar,
Niko Kranjcar, Bassong, Corluka
2011
Woodgate, keane, hutton, crouch, palacios, pavlychenko
2010:
Taarabt
2009:
zokora, bent, chimbonda, kevin prince boateng,
2008:
berbatov, robinson, keane, malbranque, kaboul, lee, tainio, ghaly

Arsenal outbound 2012
Van Persie, Song
2011
fabregas, nasri,clichy, eboue
2010
eduardo, senderos, campbell
2009
adebayor, toure
flamini, hleb, gilberto, diarra, hoyte

totts inbound 2012
sigurdsson,vertonghen, Adebayor
2011
friedal, parker, coulibaly
2010
sandro, gallas, van der vaart, pienaar
2009
crouch, naughton, walker, bassong, kranjcar, kaboul
2008
corluka, gomes, keane, defoe, palacios, cudicini, chimbonda, pavlychenko, Bentley

Arsenal inbound 2012
Podolski, Giroud, Cazorla
2011
arteta, mertesacker, chamberlain, andres santos, jenkinson, park
2010
chamakh, koscielny, squillaci
2009
vermaelen, campbell
2008
arshavin, silvestre, bischoff

one things for sure, they have a higher turnover of players, and they have a better ability of clearing deadwood. However, one thing of the note is that MOST of the palyers they buy become deadwood within 3 years (i think), thus not necessarily showing ambition.

we obviously have problem shifting deadwood and have a tendency to sell our top players. However, it's pretty obvious that our buys are of a higher quality.

yes tottenham are ambitious footballing wise, but their ambition is from mid table to constant CL club, whereas our ambitions are higher, from constant cl club to PL winners. how sure how u would measure ambitiousness though...

We took the plunge and fiananced a move to our own 60k stadium that generates £3m in match day revenue. They buy our cast offs like Gallas and Adebayor. Once the stadium debt is cleared we will be in another stratosphere to them. They know that which is why they were so desperate for a new stadium and even willing to move to Stratford to avoid paying for it.

Explain yourselves then and make your point.. this is a forum, not a dictatorship. Thanks for making the effort to post comments.

Imo, the last 5 years certainly cast doubts on Arsenal's priorities.

Ok for past 5 years, go back and check the table to see if they ever finished above us.

You dismiss what we got, by envying something which looks good on the outside but it's all rotten on the inside.

Sp*rs: more footballing ambition than us ???
Grow up !!

Some awesome threads lately, heh.

Guess this is because of the transfers, but there's a reason they haven't taken our spot as a top 4 club or one of London two biggests.

Let's be brutally honest, we were two Martin Fulop howlers away from finishing fourth and not making the Champion's League last season. It was hardly a cruise down to the finish line was it?

This is what pisses me off with some arsenal fans.

its a very fair question, but the supporting argument make me wanna puke. Are you outta your mind? Mate, no really, are you off your rock? Or currently on some rocks? your reason is borderline hillarious.

Now my 1st sentence wasnt aimed at you, it was for some of the comment batter your ridiculousness. Screw your supporting argument, I see your point in the thread title. Arsenal are the biggest club of the two, the only one of the two with a history worth mentioning, infact totenham only relevance lies with us being their nieghbors.

Ok, I get your point though, arsenal really havent pushed on for whatever contrived reason, we havent really attempted to, we are living like peasants, baragin hunting, buying crappy players chamakh, squilacc, park, silvestre, almunia etc. giving chances to untried unproven youngsters, blooding them in FIRST team. Ramsey, wilshere, walcott, gibs, etc.

these youngster arent neccessarily bad, they just dont deserve there chance, its gifted to them. You sell the seniors then just play a youngnster in his position.

Also we handle transfer poorly to the extreme, we dont take advantage of situations. So many top player we have been link to, end up thr less enticing option always. Cazola, verm, and sagna, and podolski are the small few that we really rejoice to.

wackhnam crapspurs while failing miserable, they actually try, they buy players and spend money, they fvcking do! and decent players sometime too, they keep going for keeper, defenders and midfielder and strikers, if they didnt have some muppets for managers down the line, harry fvcking redknap, lol, now avb. tottenham has been harder than arsenal to achieve success and even copy us. Trust me when I say Our Manager Arsène Wenger is our only saving grace, it isnt the players.

So I get your point, lol but man you made a mess of it.

Spurs in my opinion have not challenged for the title in a long time. Even in our recent trophy less period we have managed to challenge at least on some occasions. Spurs are a club aiming for top 4, we are a level above that, in terms of ambition (what we actually achieve isn't the point), Despite not being up there with City and United just yet.