Where do Arsenal stand in comparison to other clubs?

I was reading Gazidis' quotes this morning and one in particular stood out for me and got me thinking.

Of every major club, we have the most potential for growth in that [commercial] area. Once that kicks in on a really sustainable business, it does kick us into the top five clubs in the world with separation from the rest. That’s a fairly extraordinary thing

The question I pose is where do you currently see us sitting and how high do you think we can end up?

On the context it seems like a fairly straight forward question, but it really isn't that simple. Whilst we have a better squad then the likes of AC Milan for example, these clubs have higher prestige attached and all bias aside, I think a lot of players in the prime of their career would favour a move there then to us.

Discuss.

You're never going to surpass the likes of Milan and co. in prestige unless you're successful every year, win Champions League numerous times, and consistently be a threat every year in that competition. Madrid etc are fortunate to have such a glorious history that makes their prestige untouchable. Arsenal are the third biggest club in England but as far as global brand we are not there yet.

Arsenal are a global brand but not as popular as the big boys, if we want to be up there we need to be more successful and consistent, that will generate more money and more fans. Right now we are solely depending on the style we play, our stade, and the success we have from '98-'05.

In order for us to recover our prestige we need to win a major trophy and improve wage structure so we can pay stars a bit more. I know we'll never be able to match the likes of Man City in wages but we just need to get close enough. Winning trophies should improve loyalty.

The question is a bit vague to me. What exactly are we talking about? Or maybe I should ask: What is Gazidis talking about? Prestige? History? Quality of the current squad? Trophies? Global popularity? financial health? Brand image? market value?

The question about where we stand in comparison to other clubs cannot be answered accurately without a specification of criteria. Imo there is no point in an overall ranking of clubs. It is too subjective.

Arsenal is number 1, obviously.

Arsenal FC is a very attractive and well known brand across the globe and we have so many things going for us from being based in London which is easily one of THE greatest cities in the world to our world class stadium in Emirates that thousands of people from around the world come to see to Arsène Wenger who's respected and admired around the world for his unique philosophy and innovative ways.

The appeal of AFC is incredibly phenomenal and you'll only realize this when you travel outside of UK to anywhere in the world and the most amazing thing is we're known 'as people's team' in many parts of Africa and you can understand why as we've had many great players from Africa. If I'm not mistaken I think we were one of the first big clubs in the premier league to have an Asian player in Junichi Inamoto long before anybody was aware there were loads of talented players from that continent.

At the moment I think it's a fair assessment when Gazidis says we're in the top 5, selling all our world class players doesn't help our cause in achieving our ultimate goal which is of course to become a rival brand for Manure, Barca and Real in a global scale and we can be as big as any of those or even bigger but the sooner we start winning the better as I believe the two are linked together and once we start performing and winning on the pitch then the sky is the limit for Arsenal Football Club off the pitch.

After the Invincibles season we were on course to be one of the elite clubs in Europe.
We had a team stacked with players most of who would have walked into any other top club in the world.
We were moving into a state of the art stadium and were about to become one of the highest grossing clubs.

With a couple of world class players we could have pushed on and challenged Man u for the right to be called the best team in the country.
Along with the Spanish giants we could have become one of the four best clubs in Europe.

But we decided to break up that team and failed to reinvest.
Then Chelsea started to establish themselves as the second most successful team, behind Man u and of course Man City overtook them, leaving us fourth.

We are the best of the rest, but a long way behind the top three, especially as Chelsea have gone on another massive spending spree.

As regards European football we are behind the usual suspects from Spain and Germany and are probably on a par, just, with clubs like Juventus, AC Milan, Inter and the new big spenders PSG.

I would put us easily in the top ten clubs when it comes to prestige, but if the trend of selling the best and buying second best continues we could easily drop out of the top ten.

From an outsiders point of view, supporters other countries in Europe will look at us and say where are your world class players? all the top clubs in history have had several world class players.

It's a shame we didn't build on the great team we had.
To get back to that level is going to be difficult, to say the least.

http://www.therichest.org/sports/most-v ... rts-teams/

We are fourth.

Arsenal FC is a very attractive and well known brand across the globe and we have so many things going for us from being based in London which is easily one of THE greatest cities in the world to our world class stadium in Emirates that thousands of people from around the world come to see to Arsène Wenger who's respected and admired around the world for his unique philosophy and innovative ways.

The appeal of AFC is incredibly phenomenal and you'll only realize this when you travel outside of UK to anywhere in the world and the most amazing thing is we're known 'as people's team' in many parts of Africa and you can understand why as we've had many great players from Africa. If I'm not mistaken I think we were one of the first big clubs in the premier league to have an Asian player in Junichi Inamoto long before anybody was aware there were loads of talented players from that continent.

At the moment I think it's a fair assessment when Gazidis says we're in the top 5, selling all our world class players doesn't help our cause in achieving our ultimate goal which is of course to become a rival brand for Manure, Barca and Real in a global scale and we can be as big as any of those or even bigger but the sooner we start winning the better as I believe the two are linked together and once we start performing and winning on the pitch then the sky is the limit for Arsenal Football Club off the pitch.

Total agreememt with that statement. However we need to exploit our brand better in future. This is more important than retaining top talent. We have to capitalise on Brand Arsenal. We are the only team with that name and we have to ensure that the Gunners become world famous as a unique team with a unique name and a unique brand of football. Signing world famous names would definately help but we have to be better at spotting the Messi's, Neymar's and Lucio's of tomorrow. Maybe we should poach the top scouts from Porto to have a chance of that. Or send our scouts to South America instead of Continental Europe.

To be fair though, we have tried to sign some top youngsters from South America and failed, its not so much about finding top talents in South America, its about trouble signing them. We knew about and wanted to sign players like Messi and Ronaldinho but work permit laws didn't let us sign them, we were promised that Silva would be granted a work permit but when he signed they did a 360 and said no. So we've tried but something always gets in the way, it annoying really and its something that needs to be fixed in my opinion.

this should be really considered from the outlook of the next 2-3 years, there's no such thing as exactly right now. it's like probability of an exact point on a curve is zero.

if you ask next 2 years, we're only as good as the injuries allow us, at least in england. a lot depends on luck in that regard, because we don't have the squad to keep up our prestige in europe and also push for EPL. not to mention try to nick a cup with reserves

We are in the top 10 overall, but to overtake the Milans Madrids and Barcas you have to win European Cups. We haven't.

That'll come though. I hope.

We need to break that 7 year drought. Every season it goes on, it gets bigger, and weighs heavily in the minds of the players. Look at what it did to us in the carling cup final. The mere thought that we were about to end it had everyone weak in the knees, and relegation-fodder like Birmingham beat us to it.

We're a lot like 2000-2006 era Spain NT. Very talented, but our own worst enemy. Once we win a trophy and the ball starts rolling though, the sky is the limit.

Look at what it did to us in the carling cup final.

Personally I thought it was more complacency that cost us that day. And Cesc and Walcott being injured before, and RVP getting injured during. Otherwise we win.

Win the CL, for a start. A PL title wouldn't hurt either.

Win the CL, for a start. A PL title wouldn't hurt either.

Both would be fun.

To be one of the top clubs in the world and join the likes of Milan, Barca, Real, Man United, etc. we need to win European cups. We should've won it once between 2002-2006 when our team was brilliant and it's a dream of mine to see us win it in the (hopefully) near future. It'd be a brilliant way for Wenger to end his career too.

Money League says we're already at fifth! lol

but we need to win cups... otherwise comparing Arsenal to the likes of ManU, Barca, Real and Bayern is just ridiculous... unless we're just talking money and value.

When Ferguson stepped out and made it clear that ManU need to be win more European trophies in order to be comparable with the likes of Real then you know we have our work cut out for us! We can't even win the mickey mouse cup yet...! but lots of work to do and am very optimistic... this club has a very bright future!

We've had this same potential since the move & done NOTHING = don't hold your breath waiting.
This was the purpose behind building the frakking stadium in the first place as one step to making us a genuine member of the Elite,
but not the ONLY one.
6 years after the move and we're still TALKING about potential = give me a break

Beneath the elite in competetiveness, above all in class.

Although the prestige arguement is a big one, I don't think there's any way you can argue Milan are a bigger team then Arsenal as things stand, or over the past couple of years. Porto are champions league winners but they don't place very highly on people's top 10. In teems of commercial appeal I would rank us top 5, but in terms of on field success etc I think somewhere in top 10 is reasonable.

Beneath the elite in competetiveness, above all in class.

I think we need to look at the context here. Gazidis was talking about our commercial growth in 2 years time so for me he meant top 5 clubs in the world in terms of finances and ability to compete for transfers. Obviously clubs like Milan, Inter and Juve who aren't as competitive as they used to be are bigger than us in terms of pedigree on the european stage but we will be much richer than them and as City and Chelsea have proven $$$ is the most important thing these days.

Well Mr. Gazidis, why not capitalise that potential? We've been underexploiting that potential for a while now. After capitalisation I expect materialisation in terms of an improved squad.

Obviously we have a ton of potential. We have a great stadium which we make a ton off of, we are one of the top 4 teams in the best league in the world, we've been in the Cl for what, 15 years in a row? We have a great manager, we have a good history and we also have crappy sponsorship deals coming up for renegotiation. Most importantly, we have and have had a good team and we're usually just a few players short of challenging properly.

Now to actually realise this potential we need to spend more money. If we want to grow in stature and in revenue and be a truly big club we need to play like one as well and we haven't been doing that for years now. We're always 1 or 2 signings short of greatness, and we don't try hard enough to keep our best players.

The potential for greatness is there but if we want it to be more than potential we need some investment to back it up. There's no way we can be one of the greatest clubs in europe and make a profit on player transfers every season, football does not work like that.

Now i<'m not saying we need to spend like City, Chelsea or even United, with wenger at the helm I'm sure he could do some good things with even something relatively small like another 15-20 million a year. But some investment is needed. Our current cheapness is killing us, both the team's chances of success on the pitch and status as one of the biggest clubs in europe. Look at how we're seen by the outside world today compared to 2004 for example, it's a massive difference. Of course football has changed and we need to accept that, but we also need to adapt to the changing market, something we've seemingly been unable to do.

If we are to reach the levels of the 02-04 side again I feel that there needs to be some change in the people in charge above Wenger, they either seem a bit clueless or disinterested in success(Gazidis/Kroenke, and then there's dinosaurs like Hill-Wood whom I feel is holding the club back as well.

Once/if we get our commercial side/sponsors sorted we'll be in tier 1 financially. We're already tier 2 in terms of prestige and about tier 3 in terms of ability.

Might be a bit overly simplistic but that's how I see it as it stands.

The 'size' of a club is always a hard thing to assess. Chelsea are an interesting example. Arsenal have traditionally been a bigger and more succesful club with a far higher profile on the international stage, whereas until Abrahmovich came along they hadn't won the league since 1955. Yet they've been the more dominant of the two clubs for about eight years now, and if things carry on the way they have been then they will leapfrog us. We can talk about history but that's what Liverpool fans do and we like to mock them for it.

If I had to rank all the big European clubs, I'd probably do it like this:

Tier 1. Real Madrid, Barcelona, Manchester United
Tier 2. Inter Milan, Juventus, Chelsea, Milan, Bayern Munich, Arsenal
Tier 3. Liverpool, Man City, Borussia Dortmund, PSG

No real rhyme or reason to it, just my gut feeling.

We've had this same potential since the move & done NOTHING = don't hold your breath waiting.
This was the purpose behind building the frakking stadium in the first place as one step to making us a genuine member of the Elite,
but not the ONLY one.
6 years after the move and we're still TALKING about potential = give me a break

Many of the clubs who win trophies we would like to win have done so on the basis of massive debt. Chelsea spends £500m to win one CL, we would rather spend that on a new stadium, the CL trophy will come in time. Our potential lies in the fact that we pay our own way in the football world.

We either break even or make a profit on every player we sign. Can any of the teams whose trophies you covet say the same. We made £20m on Adebayor. $hitty had to practically give him away so they could get him off the wage bill.

As much as I'd like to agree with you that we should spend £400m building a title winning team. The teams who have done so should be ashamed of the fact that they have spent billions on chasing a dream that all to easily could end with oblivion. Just ask any Portsmouth, Rangers or Forest fan.

Spanish football is a duopoly, Italian football is a corrupt cesspit, A day of reckoning will come for the Chavski's and $hitty's of the PL. Grab an Aussie biscuit and a cup of tea and have a bit of patience Annie, being an Arsenal fan is a lifetime commitment not a one season stand.

we break even or make a profit on every player we sign?

Reyes?

Jeffers?

Taylor?

Arshavin?

All the sucession stuff about how we will win the CL with the new stadium etc, nice thought but the reality is that is in the future as was the 'cleared stadium debts from profit on property sales' line that was wheeled out up until the housing market crash.

Essentially we don't know where we will stand in the future as big spenders like citeh, chelsea manage to expand their stadia (in the case of citeh this is easily done). Nor can we accurately predict any of the other factors which will govern our relative power in football.

All we know is that we have been doing OK on a shoestring since the move to the grove but have been pushed down the pecking order due to the influx of fame hungry cash rich clubs in the EPL and changes in commercial deals. I still don't think we will be able to do what Bayern Munich do in terms of clean balace sheet and big wage spend but it all relys on how well FFP is governed and implemented.

The 'size' of a club is always a hard thing to assess. Chelsea are an interesting example. Arsenal have traditionally been a bigger and more succesful club with a far higher profile on the international stage, whereas until Abrahmovich came along they hadn't won the league since 1955. Yet they've been the more dominant of the two clubs for about eight years now, and if things carry on the way they have been then they will leapfrog us. We can talk about history but that's what Liverpool fans do and we like to mock them for it.

If I had to rank all the big European clubs, I'd probably do it like this:

Tier 1. Real Madrid, Barcelona, Manchester United
Tier 2. Inter Milan, Juventus, Chelsea, Milan, Bayern Munich, Arsenal
Tier 3. Liverpool, Man City, Borussia Dortmund, PSG

No real rhyme or reason to it, just my gut feeling.

What time frame have you considered?
Real Madrid were poo 3 seasons ago, same goes for Juve, Milan.

http://www.uefa.com/memberassociations/ ... index.html
is a good indicator of how we fare in the CL.