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Nemanja Matic

samshere

Why so serieuse?
Matic resolves any midfield in England, not only United. in order to understand how important he is you have to understand football. Matic is right there with Kross, Xavi alonso, Javi Martinez, Yaya Toure (in the past) Thiago Motta, and Khedira. Xhaka can be that player for us, a guy that the entire team surrounds around.
But we've already got Xhaka who's younger and better. Doubt if Wenger will want Matic as back up to Xhaka. This rumour makes no sense.
 

Slartibartfast

CIES Loyalist
Chelsea fans reckon Matic hasn't been the same since a horror tackle a couple of years back. He's far less aggressive and less mobile now by all accounts. He wins about half as many tackles and interceptions and he can't drive the ball up the pitch with his runs the same way anymore.

You've talked about distance covered but it's the pace that distance is covered at. Özil covers loads of distance but not at speed, which we lack in the centre of the park.

As for his assists, I watched 6 of them, a couple were flick ons from corners, another was a pass in his own half where Hazard ran the length of the pitch and none of them show much in the way of creative ability.

I'd take Matic but alongside Xhaka I don't think they contemplate each other. Although his height and all round play would be welcome.

Well, with all due respect to "Chelsea fans," I think Nick Wright's analysis probably carries more weight. I would also suspect that Matic's lower tackle stats (his missed tackles were lower by the same margin) are probably due more to playing alongside Kante than anything. He didn't need to tackle as much.

As for mobility, if you take a look at the detailed performance analysis based on OptaPro stats by the CIES Football Observatory (based on the player's last 1,000 minutes) you'll see that Matic has a higher mobility rating than either Ramsey or Oxlade-Chamberlain. He's not an Olympic sprinter, but he's also not slow. And while I wouldn't want someone as slow as myself out there, I don't think you really need a speed burner either. Santi Cazorla was never going to win too many foot races and he carried far more offensive responsibilities than you would ask of Matic. Many of Matic's other statistics were up this past season because he was used a bit differently in Conte's system than in Mourinho's.

It should also be remembered that there for awhile last season after Santi was injured again the midfield pairing was Xhaka and Coquelin. Surely you'd rate Matic as an upgrade over Coquelin as a partner to Xhaka, right? And that was with the 4-2-3-1. In the 3-4-2-1, it's really necessary to employ two defensive-minded central midfielders to do it properly because your wing backs are, ideally, getting forward more than in a 4-2-3-1. Both midfielders need to be able to win balls and tackle, plus they need to be aware of what's going on behind them. They need to be ready to defend at all times. That defensive cover allows the wing backs and the forwards more freedom to be creative. And Matic could take some of that defensive responsibility off Xhaka's shoulders.
 

Camron

Photoshop King
Trusted ⭐

Player:Martinelli
Once he leaves the safety of the Chelsea defensive unit, his weaknesses will be exposed. Don't want.
 

samshere

Why so serieuse?
Well, with all due respect to "Chelsea fans," I think Nick Wright's analysis probably carries more weight. I would also suspect that Matic's lower tackle stats (his missed tackles were lower by the same margin) are probably due more to playing alongside Kante than anything. He didn't need to tackle as much.

As for mobility, if you take a look at the detailed performance analysis based on OptaPro stats by the CIES Football Observatory (based on the player's last 1,000 minutes) you'll see that Matic has a higher mobility rating than either Ramsey or Oxlade-Chamberlain. He's not an Olympic sprinter, but he's also not slow. And while I wouldn't want someone as slow as myself out there, I don't think you really need a speed burner either. Santi Cazorla was never going to win too many foot races and he carried far more offensive responsibilities than you would ask of Matic. Many of Matic's other statistics were up this past season because he was used a bit differently in Conte's system than in Mourinho's.

It should also be remembered that there for awhile last season after Santi was injured again the midfield pairing was Xhaka and Coquelin. Surely you'd rate Matic as an upgrade over Coquelin as a partner to Xhaka, right? And that was with the 4-2-3-1. In the 3-4-2-1, it's really necessary to employ two defensive-minded central midfielders to do it properly because your wing backs are, ideally, getting forward more than in a 4-2-3-1. Both midfielders need to be able to win balls and tackle, plus they need to be aware of what's going on behind them. They need to be ready to defend at all times. That defensive cover allows the wing backs and the forwards more freedom to be creative. And Matic could take some of that defensive responsibility off Xhaka's shoulders.
What does the SIES observatory say about Xhaka's mobility? I see him do a lot of low intensity running when the play is ahead of him which will probably burnish his mobility, distance covered stats. And I feel that Matic offers more of the same. What is needed to partner Xhaka is a box to box with explosive pace someone that can burst through opposition ranks when Xhaka's long balls aren't working. Matic had Kante doing a lot of running to carry the ball into the opposition half, I haven't seen him burst through the midfield for some time now. I don't think a midfield of Xhaka - Matic works as our first choice pairing. I'd even take Xhaka-Ramsey over that, and we're looking at starting CM quality not someone that can replace Coquelin on the bench.
 

say yes

forum master baiter
Matic resolves any midfield in England, not only United. in order to understand how important he is you have to understand football. Matic is right there with Kross, Xavi alonso, Javi Martinez, Yaya Toure (in the past) Thiago Motta, and Khedira. Xhaka can be that player for us, a guy that the entire team surrounds around.

giphy.gif
 

Slartibartfast

CIES Loyalist
What does the SIES observatory say about Xhaka's mobility? I see him do a lot of low intensity running when the play is ahead of him which will probably burnish his mobility, distance covered stats. And I feel that Matic offers more of the same. What is needed to partner Xhaka is a box to box with explosive pace someone that can burst through opposition ranks when Xhaka's long balls aren't working. Matic had Kante doing a lot of running to carry the ball into the opposition half, I haven't seen him burst through the midfield for some time now. I don't think a midfield of Xhaka - Matic works as our first choice pairing. I'd even take Xhaka-Ramsey over that, and we're looking at starting CM quality not someone that can replace Coquelin on the bench.

Xhaka gets a "middle" mobility rating, same as Matic. That's based on detailed OptaPro analysis, including how much of the pitch is covered, not just on distance covered. And here's another analysis of Matic that supports what I'm saying about him.

Resurgence – The Convergence Occurs

With a new era seeming to start at Stamford Bridge, Matic was seen as a cause of doubt for many fans. Could he ever rediscover the form of the early remnants of the Mourinho era? Or was he another disposable player, one that could be dispatched quickly to turn a new leaf. At first glance, it was looking to be the latter, with Juventus showing a very solid interest and the likes of Radja Nainggolan being linked to possibly replace him. However, new manager Antonio Conte was adamant that Matic was not for sale, and was a key part of his plans for the upcoming season.

One of the early signs that would end up fulfilling Matic resurgence was the signing of N Golo Kante. With this, Matic would not be left as exposed on the defensive end, as due to Kante being an ultra-aggressive player who could press from the front and recover second balls amazingly, Matic could be a perfect complimentary player to Kante, someone who would win the aerial threat and be a potential creative difference maker. While Kante would struggle to early on as a deep player due to the space being much bigger, Matic was slowly but surely, playing higher up in Conte midfield 3. For instance, while the overall display was poor, Matic second half performance against a rampant Liverpool side, showed his ability to make the difference in the final third despite his lack of pace. Being able to carry the ball and being an incisive passer allowed him to assist Diego Costa during that game, a theme which would carry on.

With Conte now switching to the 343 formation, and Kante, now with David Luiz and more protected passing options, very much allowed for Matic creativity to flourish. While it must be said that Matic is not at the creativity ability of someone like a Cesc Fabregas, the convergence of Matic physical attributes along with his creativity, allowed him to be a more secure defensive player alongside Kante despite his previous struggles. Thus, over the next couple of games, the Matic/Kante partnership would flourish against every matchup. Matic ability to create from deep and be that sort of both deep-lying playmaker and creative threat as a B2B meant he notched up a career high of 6 assists by November. This was best seen in instances where he linked up with star attacker Eden Hazard in the half space during the Manchester Utd game, or with Pedro in the Sp**s game. That elegant quick ball between the lines allowed for Chelsea to provide a killer difference, linking both midfield and attack. Thus, while we have seen that Matic was before, the flawed destroyer who would cover for Cesc, he was now the becoming a complete technical version of the player he was initial formed as. He is now more complex, a mere unicorn of a player who can matchup and provide the difference amongst any player in the BPL. Thus, with Matic every improving form, Chelsea are now top of the table, with a historic 13-win streak. The player who was gone through every transformation, who has been misinterpreted by the media at times, now seems to be fully settled in his role.


http://breakingthelines.com/player-analysis/player-analysis-the-evolution-of-nemanja-matic/


Also, there's no reason Matic and Xhaka would have to be partnered every game. That partnership could be used when a more defensive approach is required. The Xhaka-Ramsey partnership could be used in games that might require more offense. In other games, Matic and Ramsey might partner each other. And Matic's leadership qualities would be invaluable. It only requires thinking outside the box rather than just writing down names on a lineup sheet.
 

samshere

Why so serieuse?
Xhaka gets a "middle" mobility rating, same as Matic. That's based on detailed OptaPro analysis, including how much of the pitch is covered, not just on distance covered. And here's another analysis of Matic that supports what I'm saying about him.

Resurgence – The Convergence Occurs

With a new era seeming to start at Stamford Bridge, Matic was seen as a cause of doubt for many fans. Could he ever rediscover the form of the early remnants of the Mourinho era? Or was he another disposable player, one that could be dispatched quickly to turn a new leaf. At first glance, it was looking to be the latter, with Juventus showing a very solid interest and the likes of Radja Nainggolan being linked to possibly replace him. However, new manager Antonio Conte was adamant that Matic was not for sale, and was a key part of his plans for the upcoming season.

One of the early signs that would end up fulfilling Matic resurgence was the signing of N Golo Kante. With this, Matic would not be left as exposed on the defensive end, as due to Kante being an ultra-aggressive player who could press from the front and recover second balls amazingly, Matic could be a perfect complimentary player to Kante, someone who would win the aerial threat and be a potential creative difference maker. While Kante would struggle to early on as a deep player due to the space being much bigger, Matic was slowly but surely, playing higher up in Conte midfield 3. For instance, while the overall display was poor, Matic second half performance against a rampant Liverpool side, showed his ability to make the difference in the final third despite his lack of pace. Being able to carry the ball and being an incisive passer allowed him to assist Diego Costa during that game, a theme which would carry on.

With Conte now switching to the 343 formation, and Kante, now with David Luiz and more protected passing options, very much allowed for Matic creativity to flourish. While it must be said that Matic is not at the creativity ability of someone like a Cesc Fabregas, the convergence of Matic physical attributes along with his creativity, allowed him to be a more secure defensive player alongside Kante despite his previous struggles. Thus, over the next couple of games, the Matic/Kante partnership would flourish against every matchup. Matic ability to create from deep and be that sort of both deep-lying playmaker and creative threat as a B2B meant he notched up a career high of 6 assists by November. This was best seen in instances where he linked up with star attacker Eden Hazard in the half space during the Manchester Utd game, or with Pedro in the Sp**s game. That elegant quick ball between the lines allowed for Chelsea to provide a killer difference, linking both midfield and attack. Thus, while we have seen that Matic was before, the flawed destroyer who would cover for Cesc, he was now the becoming a complete technical version of the player he was initial formed as. He is now more complex, a mere unicorn of a player who can matchup and provide the difference amongst any player in the BPL. Thus, with Matic every improving form, Chelsea are now top of the table, with a historic 13-win streak. The player who was gone through every transformation, who has been misinterpreted by the media at times, now seems to be fully settled in his role.

http://breakingthelines.com/player-analysis/player-analysis-the-evolution-of-nemanja-matic/


Also, there's no reason Matic and Xhaka would have to be partnered every game. That partnership could be used when a more defensive approach is required. The Xhaka-Ramsey partnership could be used in games that might require more offense. In other games, Matic and Ramsey might partner each other. And Matic's leadership qualities would be invaluable. It only requires thinking outside the box rather than just writing down names on a lineup sheet.
And Xhaka-Ramsey would still be our best combination. We need a partner to Xhaka that will solve some problems for us. Xhaka-Matic are too similar to be effective. I'd look at Seri or Goretzka as someone that can play alongside Xhaka and be an upgrade to Ramsey. What you quoted just goes to show that Matic works best alongside a dynamo like Kante, we don't have any of those in our team. A mf of Xhaka-Matic will stink to high heaven.
 

LacazetteAFC

Active Member
Well, with all due respect to "Chelsea fans," I think Nick Wright's analysis probably carries more weight..

I'd take the word of fans who watch a player week in week out over a journo who doesn't. You also have to consider Conte's view, which is that Matic is surplus to requirements.

I would also suspect that Matic's lower tackle stats (his missed tackles were lower by the same margin) are probably due more to playing alongside Kante than anything. He didn't need to tackle as much.
..

It dropped before Kante joined from his 14/15 and 13/14 form. From 15/16 onwards it's dropped.

As for mobility, if you take a look at the detailed performance analysis based on OptaPro stats by the CIES Football Observatory (based on the player's last 1,000 minutes) you'll see that Matic has a higher mobility rating than either Ramsey or Oxlade-Chamberlain. He's not an Olympic sprinter, but he's also not slow. And while I wouldn't want someone as slow as myself out there, I don't think you really need a speed burner either. Santi Cazorla was never going to win too many foot races and he carried far more offensive responsibilities than you would ask of Matic. Many of Matic's other statistics were up this past season because he was used a bit differently in Conte's system than in Mourinho's. ..

Mobility means little without pace. Cazorla was allowed this by playing around a Coquelin with great recovery pace and pressing. There's nothing wrong with having 1 slow midfielder if he is paired with a quick aggressive ball winner who can cover for him. Pairing 2 slower players that can't get dribbled and passed around for fun is where the problem lies

It actually happened in 15/16 with Matic and Fabregas after Matic's injury, they passed around them easier and pressed them off the ball. Both players lacked the same pace they had at peak fitness the year prior so were that bit worse. Kante came in running 100mph and solved that problem for them.

Now the question is at 29 does Matic bounce back from this 2 year slump of form or does he progressively lose pace and decline further? Conte believes that latter, hence he's letting him go.

It should also be remembered that there for awhile last season after Santi was injured again the midfield pairing was Xhaka and Coquelin. Surely you'd rate Matic as an upgrade over Coquelin as a partner to Xhaka, right?

Well yes and no. In possession we'd be better with Matic-Xhaka obviously but out of possession Coquelin's recovery pace and aggression helps us cover ground better. Neither are ideal.

Note this isn't knocking Matic, persee, Xhaka's limitations mean partnering him is problematic.

But in turn it gives the possibility of Matic-Ramsey

And that was with the 4-2-3-1. In the 3-4-2-1, it's really necessary to employ two defensive-minded central midfielders to do it properly because your wing backs are, ideally, getting forward more than in a 4-2-3-1. Both midfielders need to be able to win balls and tackle, plus they need to be aware of what's going on behind them. They need to be ready to defend at all times. That defensive cover allows the wing backs and the forwards more freedom to be creative. And Matic could take some of that defensive responsibility off Xhaka's shoulders.

From what we've seen of Wenger's 3-4-2-1 is the midfielders are allowed as much or more attacking freedom with the defensive stability. In that sense maybe Matic-Xhaka is less of a defensive problem because of the 3 CBs but also you lose the benefit of a true box to box midfielder who can attack.

So that brings us back to the Ramsey-Matic possibility.
 

YaGunnersYa

Active Member
Cant see it happening (at all) but what has Xhaka done in his career to show hes better than Matic?

Matic has had alot of games where he has been monstrous. The guy would walk into our midfield. Bring him into replace Coquelin and we're laughing.
 

Slartibartfast

CIES Loyalist
I'd take the word of fans who watch a player week in week out over a journo who doesn't. You also have to consider Conte's view, which is that Matic is surplus to requirements.

I would take the word of those who are trained to watch with a critical eye over fans who post what are often half-assed opinions online (I include myself in the latter group, even though I spent 30 years writing about sports). And I will value Arsène Wenger's opinion over all others, so if it's true he wants Matic I'm not going to argue with him.

Also, I've seen nothing about Conte telling Matic he would be surplus to requirements. What I've seen is that Conte told him he couldn't leave until a replacement was acquired.

It dropped before Kante joined from his 14/15 and 13/14 form. From 15/16 onwards it's dropped.

It dropped some season before last when Chelsea was playing like crap and nobody was motivated to play for Mourinho. Most of the drop was last season with Kante in the team.

The rest we'll just have to agree to disagree on.
 

asukru

Established Member

Country: Canada

Player:Martinelli
Forget Matic....go get Rabiot or Fabinho if you want a real partner for Xhaka.
 

tcahill

Well-Known Member
I'd love Matic here, only issue I see is his age.
He's has switched to more of a box-to box role recently, and hence his defensive stats are less impressive. Neither him nor Kante just sit in front of the defence, they both play that box to box role. He retains the ball well too, his dribbling is pretty underrated for a 194cm bloke and his distribution is solid.
I think he'd be a great player next to Xhaka, and would provide good competition/motivation for Ramsey. He's not even that slow, his pace seems pretty average for a central midfielder (unlike William Carvalho who lots of people see as a good potential partner for Xhaka, he is a actual snail), and he covers a buttload of ground every game.

Should fit well with Ramsey if Xhaka is suspended/having a game off.
 

Erlis

Only Came To See Granit Xhaka

Country: Kosova
Never heard of or seen this player before, for what team does he play and in what league?
 

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