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They are called Referees

Are you for VAR or not?


  • Total voters
    130

Jury

A-M's drunk uncle
That's definitely the way to go. A panel reviewing basically any situation and quickly alerting the ref when he called something wrong under the guidance of an overhauled, clear set of rules.
Problem is this pathetic need to hang on the word of the ref, like he IS the game. The more power you take away from them, the less you need them, and then the powers that be start losing their sh!t as if the game is going down the toilet. The fear of change for the better. Tossers.
 

Toby

No longer a Stuttgart Fan
Moderator
frekkin asshole players crowding the ref, diving and overplaying contact and stupid reckless tackles to.

These things would be so easy to address. How to stop crowding the ref? When the ref interrupts play, only the captains and the directly involved players are allowed to approach and talk to him. That's usually 4. Any other players has to be summoned by the ref, or he gets a yellow. Easy.

VAR could help with diving; in game and after games. You just have to really implement sanctioning it. The same goes for overplaying contact. Write a clear and strict set of rules and then implement it coherently. If ref don't do it, sanction them.
 

Jury

A-M's drunk uncle
We still need to look at captains getting 'challenges' like they do in tennis, for decisions that the ref might overlook. The potential problem with that, though, are devious challenges to break up counter attacks or other ways to use them to an advantage. But come on, there are people getting paid a lot of money to make sure these new rules are not abused. I feel the only thing stopping them implementing more stuff to support VAR, is doing too much too soon and making a huge mess of it. Baby steps is probably the only way to go.
 

albakos

Arséne Wenger: "I will miss you"
Administrator

Country: Kosova

Player:Saka
They should do it with some elements as in American football (I know)
The manager ha a right to make a call for VAR, the match is halted, main ref goes by the corner watches the replays and gets done with it in less than a minute.

That thing may be used in football too, where the manager can max 2 calls per match (1 call each half) and only for "game-changing decisions": penalty decision (appealing for it and asking for a penalty), offside goal, a disallowed goal (from an offside) and a red card.
 

Mark Tobias

Mr. Agreeable
They should do it with some elements as in American football (I know)
The manager ha a right to make a call for VAR, the match is halted, main ref goes by the corner watches the replays and gets done with it in less than a minute.

That thing may be used in football too, where the manager can max 2 calls per match (1 call each half) and only for "game-changing decisions": penalty decision (appealing for it and asking for a penalty), offside goal, a disallowed goal (from an offside) and a red card.
Risk of managers using it to kill momentum, time waste or distract... but it's an idea I've thought of as well
 

albakos

Arséne Wenger: "I will miss you"
Administrator

Country: Kosova

Player:Saka
No because you can easily control against bastard managers like Mourinho or Simeone.

That's why you limit it to only one call per half, only for game-changing events, not for some silly things like a shirt pull, a push, a disputed corner kick etc...
 

Toby

No longer a Stuttgart Fan
Moderator
That's why you limit it to only one call per half, only for game-changing events, not for some silly things like a shirt pull, a push, a disputed corner kick etc...

Straining a bit from the manager challenge, on which I'm not too sure, but also haven't given it too much thought yet, but...

It's not only penalties that decide matches, it's also exactly the little things you mention like shirt pulling, that can decide matches and which, at least to me, have in much higher quantity than penalties, given or not given, revealed the subpar refereeing. Especially with the arbitrariness and inconsistency - in one game alone - with which these kind of fouls are sanctioned or not. That's why VAR should optimally be used in any decision to be made.
A little example to make my thoughts clear:
Team A gets awarded cautions and yellow cards much easier and faster for "silly" things like pushes and shirt pulling and small tactical fouls than Team B. That leads to Team A having 3 to 5 players on a yellow in the 60th minute, and Team B maybe 1 or 2. As of that Team A will reasonably, but influenced by the refereeing, hold back in challenges, to avoid having a player sent off, which will in turn allow Team B to play their own game much more fluently and untroubled by Team A, and all of that riggs a game's outcome towards Team B winning.

Especially as an Arsenal fan one should be aware of this. There's always talk on how much more prone Xhaka is to get a yellow or even red for fouls someone else wouldn't even be booked for (yes, he is rash and does do harsh fouls, but still). Seen it too many times in the Bundesliga when the DFB, country and ref darling FC Bayern lose, you just award their opponent a host of yellow cards, so they hold back when going into tackles, which allows Bayern to play more freely, which increases their chances of scoring a goal.

Penalties and straight red cards are the most prevalent and noticeable sanctions to influence a game, and there's enough inconsistency with these, but it's the massive bulk of plain wrong decisions on small, silly offenses that happen every game day that unnecessarily influence games and reveal the bad standard of refereeing.

Like Jury wrote, taking away power from referees is the only way to stop them from obviously influencing games and raising the standard of refereeing. VAR can, and, hopefully, will be one of the ways this happens. They should be as accountable as managers and players are for their actions during a game.
 

albakos

Arséne Wenger: "I will miss you"
Administrator

Country: Kosova

Player:Saka
That is a good observation.

I am all for that, my reply was only limited to how they would control against managers seeking to exploit the VAR system.

And also how many times we've been dinged by poor decisions this season. A VAR would give Hazard and Richarlison a yellow for diving instead of penalty.
Laca's goal vs.Stoke would stand, while Silva's goal at City would be disallowed. The peno on Chambers etc...
I'm sure there are many more though, can't recall each now.
 

IslingtonBornandbred

Active Member
That is a good observation.

I am all for that, my reply was only limited to how they would control against managers seeking to exploit the VAR system.

And also how many times we've been dinged by poor decisions this season. A VAR would give Hazard and Richarlison a yellow for diving instead of penalty.
Laca's goal vs.Stoke would stand, while Silva's goal at City would be disallowed. The peno on Chambers etc...
I'm sure there are many more though, can't recall each now.

Just to play devil's advocate and based on how VAR has been used around the world and it's interpretation in this country, VAR would be as likely to insist that the Hazard incident was a penalty, that Richarlison didn't dive and there was some contact. Lacazette goal could also possibly still be ruled as offside and the penalty could also still be given against Chambers.

The only one I'm confident would definitely be disallowed is the Silva offside and potentially Chambers. That's if the referee makes the same decisions and then refers to VAR or VAR reviews it. You have to remember, one of the main points they use and questions they ask when using VAR is "Did I make a clear and obvious error?" In refereeing terms, things like Hazard, Richarlison, Laca's marginal offside are very much NOT clear and obvious errors.

You have to remember VAR is still a person and an interpretation, and it's not clear cut i.e was it a penalty or not, it's " did I make an obvious and clear error" and they are both two very different things.
 

Toby

No longer a Stuttgart Fan
Moderator
The only one I'm confident would definitely be disallowed is the Silva offside and potentially Chambers. That's if the referee makes the same decisions and then refers to VAR or VAR reviews it. You have to remember, one of the main points they use and questions they ask when using VAR is "Did I make a clear and obvious error?" In refereeing terms, things like Hazard, Richarlison, Laca's marginal offside are very much NOT clear and obvious errors.

You have to remember VAR is still a person and an interpretation, and it's not clear cut i.e was it a penalty or not, it's " did I make an obvious and clear error" and they are both two very different things.

Very true and on point. VAR is of no use if ALL the rules aren't made clearer.

- make refs accountable for mistakes by means of sanctions
- VAR as an independent panel with as much power as the ref to correct wrong decisons even gainst ref's will
- a new, overhauled set of rules that exactly states what a foul is, e.g. clarifying handballs, contacts, etc.
- professionalizing the refs, making it a proper job
- split ref organisations/associations from the FAs
 

YeahBee

Terrible hot takes
Clearly offsides and if the ball was in or not can be handled automatically by camera/computer

so why do we need the sideline refs?

didn't they try a 2-ref system in Italy some years back?
 

Brown Gooner

DoN'T ceNsOR maH FreE SpEecH
Watford becoming a **** team with that asshole Troy in charge. Richarlison dived against us and yesterday their player scored with his hand to rob Southampton.

Also ironic Ferguson’s son is criticising referees. If it wasn’t for Howard Webb and referees giving Alex’s United team “fergie time” his dad wouldn’t have won as much as he did.

Standard of refereeing is not great all across Europe but it is particularly bad in England. PL referees are a joke!
 

IslingtonBornandbred

Active Member
What did you guys think of VAR during the Chelsea/Norwich game? I stick to my views and know it's still a trial but I'm still interested because it's one of the first VAR games to receive any attention in terms of how it's used?
 
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