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Life after Wenger | Ornstein: Arsenal set to appoint Unai Emery

Do you think Emery will get the club back on an upwards trajectory?


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SA Gunner

Hates Tierney And Wants Him Sold Immediately
Moderator

Country: South Africa

Player:Nketiah
We need to be careful about who we bring in, because there arent many managers out there that can do a better job.

For me, its Allegri, Jardim and perhaps Favre that can do a decent job under the circumstances. No one else.
 

The_Playmaker

Established Member
Trusted ⭐
I quite like Sarri as an option. What happened with Allegri at Milan in their final season? I don't know the details, but they finished 11th after key players left. It seems like he is better suited to take over ateam with players in place and continue success rather tan rebuild.

Sarri joined Napoli in 2015. It is 2018 and they are strongly challenging for the league. He knows how to coach a counter press which we desperately need. He knows how to motivate a team, which we need. He coaches his team to play from the back and he has strong runners up front.

If he came to Arsenal, the coaching side of things would dramatically improve us. You are then looking at who he would keep and who he would buy.

Our players need coaching. Xhaka isn't a bad player and statistically speaking he is very similar to Jorginho. Jorginho isn't the best tackler and he isn't the most athletic, but he has a strong pacey defender behind him and players who are comfortable on the ball, he has two midfielders ahead of him who have energy and agility. He also has pacey players ahead of the midfield.

Sarri divised a system in playing from the back with the players suited to him. He coached it in a 4-3-3. Our players have no idea of what to do when they lose the ball. The idea of counter pressing is that you implement it when you lose the ball. So if Xhaka played in a midfield 2 or 3 and he played a loose pass, he needs to know exactly where to move when he makes that mistake as does everyone to the side of him and behind him.

I wouldn't mind Sarri.
 

Tosker

Does Not Hate Foreigners
Might not be a popular opinion but I want Rafael Benitez.

Steady the ship after Wenger leaves and have a competent side. It'll be interesting to see what this team can be with some discipline.
his decision to stick with Newcastle is a big plus with me - I don't want Wenger to be succeeded by a here today gone tomorrow manager, more interested in his own reputation than that of the team, nor one who can hardly string two words of English together

Benitez seems to understand the concepts of history and loyalty
 

Toby

No longer a Stuttgart Fan
Moderator
Might not be a popular opinion but I want Rafael Benitez.

I like Benitez, always thought of him as one of the truly better managers out there between maybe 2000 and 2010. Won La Liga, won the CL, the EL and a couple of cup trophies.

What'll always stick to him though is never managing to win the league with Liverpool, and absolutely bottling it at Inter and Real - and the fat bus driver. Although Inter could be forgiven, as that was probably the most anti-footballing side of all time; everyone would've struggled to cut it there. Went all downhill for them after Mourinho left them in that state.

Still, I don't think I want him at Arsenal. He's a good guy, but I'd opt for someone who's a bit more tactically exciting.
 

Toast

Established Member
I quite like Sarri as an option. What happened with Allegri at Milan in their final season? I don't know the details, but they finished 11th after key players left. It seems like he is better suited to take over ateam with players in place and continue success rather tan rebuild.

Sarri joined Napoli in 2015. It is 2018 and they are strongly challenging for the league. He knows how to coach a counter press which we desperately need. He knows how to motivate a team, which we need. He coaches his team to play from the back and he has strong runners up front.

If he came to Arsenal, the coaching side of things would dramatically improve us. You are then looking at who he would keep and who he would buy.

Our players need coaching. Xhaka isn't a bad player and statistically speaking he is very similar to Jorginho. Jorginho isn't the best tackler and he isn't the most athletic, but he has a strong pacey defender behind him and players who are comfortable on the ball, he has two midfielders ahead of him who have energy and agility. He also has pacey players ahead of the midfield.

Sarri divised a system in playing from the back with the players suited to him. He coached it in a 4-3-3. Our players have no idea of what to do when they lose the ball. The idea of counter pressing is that you implement it when you lose the ball. So if Xhaka played in a midfield 2 or 3 and he played a loose pass, he needs to know exactly where to move when he makes that mistake as does everyone to the side of him and behind him.

I wouldn't mind Sarri.

I don't know much about Sarri, so can't really comment on him specifically but I would absolutely love to see us appoint a manager who can set up an effective pressing game. If executed well pressing is very effective, but I think watching trigger-pressing and counter-pressing is very enjoyable as well. One of my favourite games is still Ajax v Barca in 2013/14 and not so much because of the win but because of the perfectly executed hyper-aggressive pressing.


It's an extreme example because a team can obviously not press that aggressively for a whole season, but it's a wonderful demonstration of the concepts of a) high-line aggressive man-oriented pressing b) aggressive trigger-pressing and c) 5-second counter-pressing.

A different, and less extreme, example is Peter Bosz' pressing as demonstrated in the below video. Bosz' pressing played a big part in getting Ajax to the EL final. High-risk / high-reward though. If it worked it was brilliant, but if it didn't it was often disastrous.


The press in the Barca game was more man-oriented and looked to cut off passing options and force Barca to play the long-ball or force them into situations that would activate pressing-triggers. Bosz' pressing game was more focused on keeping spaces small and aggressively pressing the man and closing down passing lanes within a small space and thus forcing a turnover.

The explanation in the video is in Dutch, so I'll just point on some key tenets from Bosz' philosophy.

  1. 'For a high press staying compact and following the press through is crucial.'
  2. 'The distance between defenders must be 10-12 meters. The distance between CB and ST must not exceed 25 meters.'
  3. 'Midfielders must be in front of their man, not behind.'
  4. (Not mentioned in the video) 'The ball must be recovered within five-second of losing it.'
  5. (Also not mentioned) 'Pressing must constantly evolve depending on the circumstances. It's a cat-and-mouse game with the opposition.'
At 0:52 in the video a pressing trigger is activated. The Roda player receives the ball to feet with his back to the Ajax goal, so three Ajax players immediately rush to press him. The same principle is on display in the Barca video as well (e.g. at 0:36; 1:15) though in De Boer's system only the fullback aggressively presses the player while others look to press the passing options and follow through on the initial press.The idea there is more to press the man into making a bad pass, after which the ball can be intercepted or the receiver can be pressed to turnover possession or make another bad pass.

From the analysis at The False 9 Sarri plays a more man-oriented press, rather than Bosz' space oriented one, as well as maintaining an aggressive counter-press. It's perhaps more similar to Ajax' press in the Barca game, though not as high or as aggressive. Very interesting stuff.

I also like Sarri's build-up play and attacking positioning as it's described in the False 9 article, but don't have the time to comment more on that right now. Later perhaps.
 

Vinci

The Sultan of Unai

Country: Netherlands
I quite like Sarri as an option. What happened with Allegri at Milan in their final season? I don't know the details, but they finished 11th after key players left. It seems like he is better suited to take over a team with players in place and continue success rather than rebuild.
No doubt what Sarri is doing is impressive, but keeping an aging side like Juventus so dominant is at least equally impressive I think. As they say getting to the top is one thing, but staying there is another. This season they lost Bonucci and Barzagli and Buffon are being phased out, but they still look as strong as ever.

Personally I think the squad would benefit more from a pragmatic manager like Allegri than an idealist like Sarri. We need someone who can be flexible, organize the defensive side and get the most out of the players. Allegri would fit that profile better than Sarri.
 

TornadoTed

Established Member
It totally depends how the hierarchy see our future I guess.

If we are going to try to implement a behind the scenes structure where coaches can come and go every 2-3 years without much upheaval then then we have will have far more options.

If they decide they want another longer term manager with a similar ethos to Wenger then Jardim or Favre are the standout options for me.
 

Toby

No longer a Stuttgart Fan
Moderator
Some quotes from Favre on his managing, cause I think the man himself is probably the best source on his style:

"Sometimes I like to be on the bench, sometimes I instantly get up to the line. I have to get that idea out instantly, or I wouldn't be a coach. I need to keep helping my team.
"We don't only have one plan. You need to have a plan A, plan B, plan C for a game. You have to anticipate. There's always different phases in every game.
"As a coach you always have to adapt to your players.
"Surely, sometimes you like some initiative, some creativity. But there always has to be a minimum of discipline, and in football, the movement is important, it has to be right when defending and when attacking - the movement has to be the right one. Game intelligence, technical movement, speed, condition.
"Mentality and character is very important. The players, they want to be successful together. A stable team stays calm, even under pressure, even when you have to score a goal.

Now these quotes directly concern some of the problems at Arsenal:
- in game coaching and the awareness of different game phases
- knowing your squad and adapting to it, while still adhering to a bigger footballing idea (not the other way round)
- having different game plans
- tactical discipline, the importance of structured movement
- mentality, character, calmness and the ability to work under pressure
- quick, direct, technical football

With these things in mind, and watching the style of football Nice and Gladbach play(ed), the more I look into future managers, and especially Favre, I actually don't think there's a better manager out there to replace Wenger. It'd be like continuing the legacy of Wengerball, but with a guy who actully knows modern tactics and builts that beautiful game one the basis of a rigid, tactical structure.
 

lamby22

It's Not Lupus

Country: Scotland
Can't see Sarri leaving Italy. He's 59 years old now and I just don't think he'll venture abroad at this late stage. Hopefully Allegri passes one of the tests and dumps Sp**s out of the CL
 

El Duderino

That's, like, your opinion, man.
Moderator
Don't think we'll appoint someone like Howe or Arteta (as much as I like the latter). Neither do I think we'll risk singing someone who will be vocal who might do a Mourinho/Conte rant on how we're not giving him the resources to compete.

Benitez is a good shout on what the club may see as a possibility. A caretaker manager who'd thread the waters of a post-Wenger era and who's expendable enough to sack once the transition is complete and the club settles on the new model on how it's supposed to be ran.

The risk here is that Wenger will likely see out his contract (despite the club's (Ivan's) press leak) and a lot of our star players will be at a point where they could force moves away from the club, which adds a lot of pressure to attract a top managerial talent along with a couple of top tier players who aren't opportunistic buys.
 

dashsnow17

Doesn’t Rate Any Of Our Attackers
Trusted ⭐
Don't think we'll appoint someone like Howe or Arteta (as much as I like the latter). Neither do I think we'll risk singing someone who will be vocal who might do a Mourinho/Conte rant on how we're not giving him the resources to compete.

Benitez is a good shout on what the club may see as a possibility. A caretaker manager who'd thread the waters of a post-Wenger era and who's expendable enough to sack once the transition is complete and the club settles on the new model on how it's supposed to be ran.

The risk here is that Wenger will likely see out his contract (despite the club's (Ivan's) press leak) and a lot of our star players will be at a point where they could force moves away from the club, which adds a lot of pressure to attract a top managerial talent along with a couple of top tier players who aren't opportunistic buys.

I agree I don't think we'll appoint those two and indeed we should probably look to a manager with more pedigree, but why are you lumping Howe & Arteta together as if they're similar? One has just retired and has recently started working as an assistant coach, while the other has already managed over 400 games.

You can question Howe's ability to step up a level and his ability to organise a defence or manage big egos/transfer budgets, but you cannot call him inexperienced. His achievements surpass Arteta's by a country mile.
 

El Duderino

That's, like, your opinion, man.
Moderator
I agree I don't think we'll appoint those two and indeed we should probably look to a manager with more pedigree, but why are you lumping Howe & Arteta together as if they're similar? One has just retired and has recently started working as an assistant coach, while the other has already managed over 400 games.

You can question Howe's ability to step up a level and his ability to organise a defence or manage big egos/transfer budgets, but you cannot call him inexperienced. His achievements surpass Arteta's by a country mile.

They are similar insofar as that both have been flavor of the month, albeit for different reasons.
 

El Duderino

That's, like, your opinion, man.
Moderator
I have no problem with Rafa tbf, I suggested him two years ago and got killed for it.

We've become a cup club lately, so he sort of fits the bill in that regard. Reckon he'd have a go at another Europa League and see what he could muster in the EPL as far as a top 4 finish is concerned.

Despite of what Ivan says, that's where the bar is.
 
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