Arsenal Tactics Talk

[Tir Na Nog]

https://spielverlagerung.de/2018/02/12/arsenal-steckt-fest/

Spielverlagerung rarely analyse Arsenal games anymore. There was a time when they did but after a couple of exasperated sounding articles, written a few years ago, which lamented our tactical problems, they just seemed to give up on us. That exasperation comes through in this article, particularly in the conclusion.

It's also very interesting how they credit Mkhitaryan with being the only player who made us look threatening, praising his tactical awareness.

Edit: They also noted that stupid thing our midfielders do when they charge from their line to press a CB, leaving a big gaping hole.

It's the most infuriating thing you can witness, sometimes when we play a pivot, BOTH our CM's push up and press the opposition CB's. Even some of the lesser teams have exploited the space we leave in midfield, but when we do against the bigger sides it's just unforgivable.

I like how every pre-season we seem to have a few games of organised pressing but as soon as the actual season starts it all just disappears and we're back to individual pressing in an extremely disorganised manner.

 

[BobP]

It's the most infuriating thing you can witness, sometimes when we play a pivot, BOTH our CM's push up and press the opposition CB's. Even some of the lesser teams have exploited the space we leave in midfield, but when we do against the bigger sides it's just unforgivable.

I like how every pre-season we seem to have a few games of organised pressing but as soon as the actual season starts it all just disappears and we're back to individual pressing in an extremely disorganised manner.

If you watch the way other teams press you'll often see them 'activate' to certain triggers such as a lofted horizontal ball in the back half. You'll also see them guide a teams build up play through their pressing. For example, a player may come at the goalkeeper from his right side in order to get him to pass to the right back who is uncomfortable in possession.

This is an example from a couple of seasons ago. Atletico did something similar against Barcelona in the QF and completely shattered Busquets in the 1st of the 2nd leg.

I swear our midfielders just run at the opposition CB because they feel compelled to do something.

 

[krackpot]

strange to see that no one in our team know how to cross a ball. The best crossers were made by Alexis, Ox and Özil, and you feel that they learnt it not at Arsenal.

Need a crossing winger, who beats his fullback and puts it in.

 

[dashsnow17]

strange to see that no one in our team know how to cross a ball. The best crossers were made by Alexis, Ox and Özil, and you feel that they learnt it not at Arsenal.

Need a crossing winger, who beats his fullback and puts it in.

I still have a feeling we'll go back in for Lemar in the summer, assuming his price is a bit lower. He can certainly put a cross in.

 

[krackpot]

I still have a feeling we'll go back in for Lemar in the summer, assuming his price is a bit lower. He can certainly put a cross in.

it's hard not to see us, considering we had offered so much. that whole affair was incredible.

 

[dashsnow17]

it's hard not to see us, considering we had offered so much. that whole affair was incredible.

Yeah and it's rare for Wenger to openly admit he'll return for a player later, he's clearly a big fan of Lemar. I suppose it depends what happens in the summer and who's really in control, maybe Sven has other targets like Malcom. But if it was up to Wenger i'm pretty sure we'd go for Lemar at about 60m and play him at LW.

 

[mavelous]

if it was upto wenger, he'll chase Lemar all summer again, will bid 85m when monaco want 90, and will fail to get his other targets only to miss out on lemar once again.

feels as if he can't anything right except entertain reporters at pressers.

 

[Camus]

Defensively we are far too passive. Reactive rather than proactive. We wait for situations to develop and hope we're prepared to deal with them rather than ensure they never develop in the 1st place. Or at least make it difficult for them to develop.

I might be mistaken (and someone please correct me if I am) but when has team been successful being as passive as we are in relation to pressure. Am I missing something? I'm not asking for Klopp copyrighted Gegenpressing for 90 minutes that'll have us dead on our feet given our glaring limitations, but something more than standing off and allowing teams to play it around unopposed. I could understand if it was about shape and discipline, but the gaps and the spaces and the lack of pressing.... it's so depressing to watch.

I've just slagged Neville off and he and other pundits are rightly accused of being too theatrical in trying to push a narrative, but he and everyone else 100% correct when they say it's "amateur" or "Under 9s" defending, because it is. It's not an exaggeration, it's not a soundbite, it's the truth.

 

[dashsnow17]

I'd get Wenger to leave at the end of the season - by mutual consent - and hire a coach who'll get the players immaculately drilled and organised. Then I'd play a 4-4-1-1 with Özil as second striker behind a centre forward.

He's our best player and he will see out the prime of his career here, it's pointless having him unless we're going to get the best out of him. We now have both Aubameyang and Lacazette to play in front of him, which is positive. We have to accept his flaws and play to his strengths, playing an organised back 4 and midfield 4 behind him would liberate him to operate in a free role. His sole task would be to pick the ball up from the midfield and feed the centre forward.

Obviously we'd need to recruit players also in order to play that formation, but i'm sure one or two of our current players could be coached to play in it. Wilshere alongside Doucoure, for example, in the middle.

Anyway, I don't think it's either/or in terms of getting the best out of Özil while also having a defensively solid team, you can do both. I think the 4-4-1-1 would be the best of both worlds; a liberated Özil with a solid and organised team.

 

[teamsoutheast]

I'd get Wenger to leave at the end of the season - by mutual consent - and hire a coach who'll get the players immaculately drilled and organised. Then I'd play a 4-4-1-1 with Özil as second striker behind a centre forward.

He's our best player and he will see out the prime of his career here, it's pointless having him unless we're going to get the best out of him. We now have both Aubameyang and Lacazette to play in front of him, which is positive. We have to accept his flaws and play to his strengths, playing an organised back 4 and midfield 4 behind him would liberate him to operate in a free role. His sole task would be to pick the ball up from the midfield and feed the centre forward.

Obviously we'd need to recruit players also in order to play that formation, but i'm sure one or two of our current players could be coached to play in it. Wilshere alongside Doucoure, for example, in the middle.

Anyway, I don't think it's either/or in terms of getting the best out of Özil while also having a defensively solid team, you can do both. I think the 4-4-1-1 would be the best of both worlds; a liberated Özil with a solid and organised team.

So would a 4-4-2 Diamond not work better with Özil in the hole in his best position? Ideally, you need a formation which accommodates all your best players in their best positions right? Having Aubameyang and Lacazette up front together would be quite tasty IMO. You also have a more balanced midfield with Elneny (holding) Xhaka/Wilshere (playmaker) Ramsey/Xhaka (B2BM)

 

[dashsnow17]

So would a 4-4-2 Diamond not work better with Özil in the hole in his best position? Ideally, you need a formation which accommodates all your best players in their best positions right? Having Aubameyang and Lacazette up front together would be quite tasty IMO. You also have a more balanced midfield with Elneny (holding) Xhaka/Wilshere (playmaker) Ramsey/Xhaka (B2BM)

4-4-2 diamond is a good idea, yes. None of these formations i'm envisaging with our current set of players though, our midfield is so short of quality. I'm writing off this season and just thinking about the future, for all the good it does me.

 

[Jae]

It's hard to have tactics when you have a back line that can't defend, midfielders that don't want the ball and strikers who barely get a touch every game...

 

[KrissKringle]

I'd get Wenger to leave at the end of the season - by mutual consent - and hire a coach who'll get the players immaculately drilled and organised.

Question is, who could come here and do a job in driving the team forward football wise as well as from an economic point of view?

There was a rumor about Ancelotti in the summer, but I don't like him and on top of that, he'd only be a band-aid on an open wound.
The guy comes, works his magic for a season and in the second one his system falls apart. He's also not a manager that knows how to work with less money and didn't promote any youngsters while at Chelsea, PSG, Real or Bayern, from what I remember.

I wouldn't risk with Howe or one of these inexperienced coaches, because, if it wouldn't work, we'd be set back even more than we are, like Manure was under Moyes.

I'm thinking that Tuchel might be a decent option, since he's an intense guy that could inject some enthusiasm and will in this bunch, but defensively he's probably not be a huge improvement over Wenger.
Still, any improvement is better than the playground stuff we're seeing at the back right now.

Simeone is a great coach who will motivate the hell out of his players, but his style is more like Mourinho or George Graham, if that's your thing and I wouldn't know if he'd be a realistic option.

I don't know, it's hard to think of someone who's good at coaching both offense and defense, while also not going overboard with the spending.

 

[dashsnow17]

Question is, who could come here and do a job in driving the team forward football wise as well as from an economic point of view?

There was a rumor about Ancelotti in the summer, but I don't like him and on top of that, he'd only be a band-aid on an open wound.
The guy comes, works his magic for a season and in the second one his system falls apart. He's also not a manager that knows how to work with less money and didn't promote any youngsters while at Chelsea, PSG, Real or Bayern from what I remember.

I wouldn't risk with Howe or one of these inexperienced coaches, because, if it wouldn't work, we'd be set back even more than we are, like Manure was under Moyes.

I'm thinking that Tuchel might be a decent option, since he's an intense guy that could inject some enthusiasm and will in this bunch, but defensively he's probably not be a huge improvement over Wenger.
Still, any improvement is better than the playground stuff we're seeing at the back right now.

Simeone is a great coach who will motivate the hell out of his players, but his style is more like Mourinho or George Graham, if that's your thing and I wouldn't know if he'd be a realistic option.

I don't know, it's hard to think of someone who's good at coaching both offense and defense, while also not going overboard with the spending.

Jardim at Monaco is probably the candidate that fits your description the best, I'd be very happy to see him here.

Personally I would be prepared to take the risk of someone like Howe or Dyche, I don't consider them inexperienced. They both have a lot of experience, just not at the top level. Using Moyes as an example isn't instructive, there are just as many examples of coaches going from a smaller club to a bigger one and being successful as those who weren't. I don't believe Howe or Dyche would fail just because they currently manage Bournemouth and Burnley. Dyche especially I think might have the strength of character and resilience to re-build this team.

 

[KrissKringle]

Jardim at Monaco is probably the candidate that fits your description the best, I'd be very happy to see him here.

Personally I would be prepared to take the risk of someone like Howe or Dyche, I don't consider them inexperienced. They both have a lot of experience, just not at the top level. Using Moyes as an example isn't instructive, there are just as many examples of coaches going from a smaller club to a bigger one and being successful as those who weren't. I don't believe Howe or Dyche would fail just because they currently manage Bournemouth and Burnley. Dyche especially I think might have the strength of character and resilience to re-build this team.

Oh, damn! I forgot about Jardim and yes, I like his style as well. Would probably be the best replacement for Wenger, since he won the league with a lot of kids over PSG's oil money and went as far as possible in the CL.
He basically exploited the most out of his squad and fits the philosophy of the club.

As for Howe or Dyche, the reason why I wouldn't go with one of them is because these guys might be out of their depth in the EL/CL against strong opposition, although Dyche seems like a more organized manager that could put our headless chickens in their place.

It will be an interesting summer, to say the least. Either Wenger leaves or starts a mass exodus and possibly gets rid of Bould in the process, too.

 

[Brown Gooner]

Step One: Get a coach who will make us defensively solid. Conte, Simeone, Allegri or even Nagelsmann

Step Two: Play a proper defensive formation with the aim of being lethal on counter attacks

With our personnel 352, 442 (diamond) and 3421 are the answers.

352
Chambers Mustafi Holding
Hector Xhaka Özil Ramsey Sead
Auba Laca

442
Hector Mustafi Kos Sead
——Elneny——
Jack————Ramsey
——Özil/Mkhi——
Auba Laca

3421
Chambers Mustafi Holding
Hector Xhaka Elneny Sead
Özil Mkhi
CF

 

[bingobob]

As a coach myself I find what we do baffling. We've great pressers in our team two or whom cut it under Big Bad Yurgen. My team we've two hours practice a week and we can press better than what Arsenal do.

It's simple. We play a 3412. We press centre left because most people are right footed so if they hoof it it goes normally in a predictable zone. We've our two best headers of the ball at Lcb and Cb and our ball playing centre back at Rcb.

We've and I use these descriptions only for the purpose of where I'm posting. Our Özil when pressing is the only player who should be moving back towards our goal and moving into a deeper central area. Our Ramsey moves forward to press. Literally when pressing they switch.

It works effectively. The other team hopefully either get turned over or punt long. If they get turned over we're in a great position to attack and we go for it or play it back to Timoney (our playmaker) who has full view of the pitch or they go long we hopefully win it and give to him.

Like to me it's not rocket science. I want my ball player where he has time and space. I want my legs where they annoy the opposition. We have a lot of turn overs because we press 5 and drop 4 (Timoney in between) and we win a lot in the air because they normally kick it where we are strongest.

Aye, we don't win all the time. But it's a system. And we train to that system. Having poor Timoney sprint to a cone 40 yards away. Having our guys in random positions and then sprint to pre designated markers and having our defence try to play out. With amateurs doing two hours training a week we seem alright . If we had 4 days training a week we'd be something.

Begs the question what are we doing. Because we don't seem comfortable playing it out under pressure and our pressing is well I feel it does amateur a disservice.

 

[nick gould]

Just get a manager who will remind these prima donnas that there will be consequences for some behaviours. Last weekend against city for example, Mustafi should have been taken off. Last night, we lost the match in the first half. It’s not as if Özil wanted to be on the pitch in the freezing cold in that second half. Take him off and bring on someone who is dying to be on that pitch. There was a time when Wenger made average players look great (except defenders). Now he makes good players look like pub players.

 

[ptrcopp]

Just get a manager who will remind these prima donnas that there will be consequences for some behaviours. Last weekend against city for example, Mustafi should have been taken off. Last night, we lost the match in the first half. It’s not as if Özil wanted to be on the pitch in the freezing cold in that second half. Take him off and bring on someone who is dying to be on that pitch. There was a time when Wenger made average players look great (except defenders). Now he makes good players look like pub players.

Surely defenders too... Senderos and Djourou?

 

[ptrcopp]

I think the problem is that we are entering a phase where everything is super organised, from defensive plays to attacking plays. Yes to an extent Man Utd are relying on their star players and the pace of others going forward, in terms of personnel , let alone the net spend, they are further away then you’d expect. We are the opposite of organised in defence and attach and that is a problem.
City and Liverpool actually attack in similar ways over and over. The amount of times Sterling or Sane have tapped in from a ball across the box or Salah broke free from the right channel to run in behind after Ferminho dropped deep. The positions they are taking up are constant, Klopp and Pep wont take it. This positioning is particularly clear with Man City; the wingers stay wide, on the touch line, when the team is in possession and generally the full backs sit in. And if the play has moved into one of the attacking sides of the pitch the full back on the opposite side moves in and takes up a strange almost ‘false-cm’ position that acts as a bung for particular types of counter attacks. This also allows whoever it is to under-lap the winger who will hug the touch line until the ball is being played into the final third.
Occasionally yesterday Xhaka was sitting in the DM role but that looked about the extent of the organisation. Even the pressing is not organised enough. When we started it a couple of years ago it was okay, not brilliant, but effective enough. However, we have not got any better at it while teams around us have been trying to work out ways around it.