$tan Kroenke Becomes Soul Owner

[Dokaka]

Think this is bad news tbh. Kroenke is notorious for not spending. His NBA franchise constantly makes money-saving moves, basically putting a brick ****ing ceiling on its potential.

I don’t really think professional sports teams ‘make money’, I.e. generate strong profits. I think it’s more that there valuations continue to sky rocket regardless. I would say off the top of my head probably Rams and Arsenal hands down as most valuable. Not sure which order.

Spot on. Kroenke bought the Denver Nuggets (NBA) and Colorado Avalanche (NHL) for $450m back in 2000. Those teams now have a combined estimated value of ~$1.5b.

He's a savvy business man but he's only in it for the money, that much is clear.

 

[Slartibartfast]

Think this is bad news tbh. Kroenke is notorious for not spending. His NBA franchise constantly makes money-saving moves, basically putting a brick ****ing ceiling on its potential.

Last year they signed one of the top free agents in Paul Millsap. This year they extended Jokic on a max contract and re-signed Will Barton. And they took a gamble on Isaiah Thomas. Last year, despite Millsap playing less than half the games because of injury, they finished 10 games over .500 and narrowly missed the playoffs (they would have made the playoffs easily in the East).

But, as I've tried to drive home several times already, there is no correlation between NBA/NFL/NHL teams and Premier League teams. The NBA has a complicated salary cap. Every team has to fit their roster into certain parameters. The Nuggets are dead in the middle of the pack in total team salary. The NFL and NHL also have salary caps. Sometimes teams have to make tough choices to stay under the caps, but that's the nature of the beast.

But despite the salary cap (they're getting close), the Rams have been on what ESPN described as a "spending spree" just a couple of weeks ago:

It took just seven days in July for the Los Angeles Rams to lock in their offensive identity for the remainder of the decade. What happens next is less certain. A week after signing Brandin Cooks to a five-year, $81 million extension before the former New Orleans Saints and New England Patriots wideout had even played a game for the franchise, the Rams followed up by giving star back Todd Gurley a four-year, $60 million extension with $45 million in guarantees.

And now they're close to agreeing to an extension with Aaron Donald, one of the best DTs in the league. I would hardly call that "not spending." So even if there were a correlation between the American leagues and the PL, it's simply not true that he's some sort of "notorious" skinflint with his teams. That's just something that people started claiming on the internet until it became gospel.

 

[akhil]

@Slartibartfast
Regarding the Rams, he doesn't have much of an option. He's supposedly committing $4 billion in the new stadium and surrounding properties. Potenially a lot of those new luxury seats/boxes at the new stadium will be going for a premium. The Rams have to show some serious success the couple of years to keep the excitement going. The LA market is a fickle one and he has to compete with the Chargers for brand excitement.
Lebron is in LA as well. That'll give the local market plenty to talk about.

Plus they've struck gold with the young head coach and Wade Phillips.

Look at the 49ers pre Levis stadium with Harbaugh, the prices the tickets at Levi's went during for that first season was ridiculous, a season ticket needed a $20,000 membership or something of the sort. They sold out!

The main concerning thing with Kroenke is, he made his business in commercials properties, mainly malls and adjoining properties to Walmarts around the country. The commercial property market has been in free fall for the past year. A ton of retailers declaring bankruptcy with the Amazon effect and general over construction of these kind of properties over the last 30 years in the US. Who knows what his real exposure to this market is.

 

[wigner]

Last year they signed one of the top free agents in Paul Millsap. This year they extended Jokic on a max contract and re-signed Will Barton. And they took a gamble on Isaiah Thomas. Last year, despite Millsap playing less than half the games because of injury, they finished 10 games over .500 and narrowly missed the playoffs (they would have made the playoffs easily in the East).

But, as I've tried to drive home several times already, there is no correlation between NBA/NFL/NHL teams and Premier League teams. The NBA has a complicated salary cap. Every team has to fit their roster into certain parameters. The Nuggets are dead in the middle of the pack in total team salary. The NFL and NHL also have salary caps. Sometimes teams have to make tough choices to stay under the caps, but that's the nature of the beast.

But despite the salary cap (they're getting close), the Rams have been on what ESPN described as a "spending spree" just a couple of weeks ago:

It took just seven days in July for the Los Angeles Rams to lock in their offensive identity for the remainder of the decade. What happens next is less certain. A week after signing Brandin Cooks to a five-year, $81 million extension before the former New Orleans Saints and New England Patriots wideout had even played a game for the franchise, the Rams followed up by giving star back Todd Gurley a four-year, $60 million extension with $45 million in guarantees.

And now they're close to agreeing to an extension with Aaron Donald, one of the best DTs in the league. I would hardly call that "not spending." So even if there were a correlation between the American leagues and the PL, it's simply not true that he's some sort of "notorious" skinflint with his teams. That's just something that people started claiming on the internet until it became gospel.

It's confirmed Gospel because he has spent very little at Arsenal. The debt servicing costs to acquire Usmanov's shares are going to cripple Arsenal's transfer budget in future years. The Adidas kit money is surely not £60 per year if Arsenal are not in the Champions League.

I don't see any light at the end of the tunnel, except for maybe an incoming train.

 

[Song Billong]

As much as I hate the man I must admit that the thing he's building in LA looks good.

As a Nuggets fan I can confirm that he is a silent owner there too. We are lucky we were able to develop a prodigious talent that a whole team can be built around, in the Joker. Given he was a late draft pick you could say we really lucked out (or had exceptional scouting).

 

[Flying Okapis]

As much as I hate the man I must admit that the thing he's building in LA looks good.

As a Nuggets fan I can confirm that he is a silent owner there too. We are lucky we were able to develop a prodigious talent that a whole team can be built around, in the Joker. Given he was a late draft pick you could say we really lucked out (or had exceptional scouting).

It appears that the days of wanting a silent owner are gone, everyone just wants an owner who will drop large amounts of their own money.

 

[Song Billong]

It appears that the days of wanting a silent owner are gone, everyone just wants an owner who will drop large amounts of their own money.

Yes of course, the game has changed now thanks to the oils. There is no turning back.

 

[Mark Tobias]

Last year they signed one of the top free agents in Paul Millsap. This year they extended Jokic on a max contract and re-signed Will Barton. And they took a gamble on Isaiah Thomas. Last year, despite Millsap playing less than half the games because of injury, they finished 10 games over .500 and narrowly missed the playoffs (they would have made the playoffs easily in the East).

But, as I've tried to drive home several times already, there is no correlation between NBA/NFL/NHL teams and Premier League teams. The NBA has a complicated salary cap. Every team has to fit their roster into certain parameters. The Nuggets are dead in the middle of the pack in total team salary. The NFL and NHL also have salary caps. Sometimes teams have to make tough choices to stay under the caps, but that's the nature of the beast.

But despite the salary cap (they're getting close), the Rams have been on what ESPN described as a "spending spree" just a couple of weeks ago:

It took just seven days in July for the Los Angeles Rams to lock in their offensive identity for the remainder of the decade. What happens next is less certain. A week after signing Brandin Cooks to a five-year, $81 million extension before the former New Orleans Saints and New England Patriots wideout had even played a game for the franchise, the Rams followed up by giving star back Todd Gurley a four-year, $60 million extension with $45 million in guarantees.

And now they're close to agreeing to an extension with Aaron Donald, one of the best DTs in the league. I would hardly call that "not spending." So even if there were a correlation between the American leagues and the PL, it's simply not true that he's some sort of "notorious" skinflint with his teams. That's just something that people started claiming on the internet until it became gospel.

I think wage caps could go a long way to evening out the playing field in football.
I'm not an advocate for American sports by any means but I find that approach interesting.

 

[celestis]

It appears that the days of wanting a silent owner are gone, everyone just wants an owner who will drop large amounts of their own money.

Just get in some Marketing/commerical Wiz's and get the revenue going would be good enough really . Getting schooled by Fulham in the window is an eye opener .

 

[Phil Romeo]

Doesn't this make it easier for the African guy to buy the club though? Or am I being dumb

Dangote can only buy the club if Kroenke wants to sell.

 

[Tony's nose]

His quote of not getting into sport to win trophies still bugs me.

It's a mess as I believe potential of a cracking manager but a somewhat non ambitious owner.

Vexed

 

[Slartibartfast]

I think wage caps could go a long way to evening out the playing field in football.
I'm not an advocate for American sports by any means but I find that approach interesting.

I know they've looked at it (about a decade ago UEFA was even looking at the MLS structure for ideas). The trouble is you have so many different viable leagues in different countries where the wage structure will naturally be different. And if, say, the Premier League instituted a wage cap they would lose the best players to Spain or some other league. The global nature of the game makes it difficult. With basketball, hockey and American football the best players pretty much need to come to North America to make the big money.

But I've often had the same thought as you. It's getting out of hand. And the transfer fees are becoming even more ridiculous. But it's hard to deal with those for the same reasons. You can't really have drafts, trades (per se) or the same sort of free agency structure. So it's basically a matter of who can splash the cash. Eventually it's going to catch up with them.

 

[Slartibartfast]

It's confirmed Gospel because he has spent very little at Arsenal. The debt servicing costs to acquire Usmanov's shares are going to cripple Arsenal's transfer budget in future years. The Adidas kit money is surely not £60 per year if Arsenal are not in the Champions League.

I don't see any light at the end of the tunnel, except for maybe an incoming train.

Well, he's paying Özil £350,000 a week. I find it fascinating that in the same breath people can claim Kroenke won't spend any money and then complain that they can't get rid of "deadwood" because the club is paying players too much.

Also, Kroenke did not borrow the money against the club. The debt is on KSE.

 

[Slartibartfast]

@Slartibartfast
Regarding the Rams, he doesn't have much of an option. He's supposedly committing $4 billion in the new stadium and surrounding properties. Potenially a lot of those new luxury seats/boxes at the new stadium will be going for a premium. The Rams have to show some serious success the couple of years to keep the excitement going. The LA market is a fickle one and he has to compete with the Chargers for brand excitement.
Lebron is in LA as well. That'll give the local market plenty to talk about.

Plus they've struck gold with the young head coach and Wade Phillips.

Look at the 49ers pre Levis stadium with Harbaugh, the prices the tickets at Levi's went during for that first season was ridiculous, a season ticket needed a $20,000 membership or something of the sort. They sold out!

The main concerning thing with Kroenke is, he made his business in commercials properties, mainly malls and adjoining properties to Walmarts around the country. The commercial property market has been in free fall for the past year. A ton of retailers declaring bankruptcy with the Amazon effect and general over construction of these kind of properties over the last 30 years in the US. Who knows what his real exposure to this market is.

When the Rams were in St. Louis, they had one of the highest payrolls in the NFL. Here's the Top 10 for 2011:

Team | Total salary
Minnesota Vikings | $123,553,646
Philadelphia Eagles| $123,382,065
Atlanta Falcons | $122,188,308
Houston Texans | $121,904,836
St. Louis Rams | $121,835,786
Baltimore Ravens | $121,145,293
New Orleans Saints | $121,042,487
Carolina Panthers | $120,884,226
Detroit Lions | $119,379,953
Pittsburgh Steelers | $118,875,502
Miami Dolphins | $118,447,435

So they were spending money even as they struggled to fill the stadium and had more crappy luxury box facilities in St. Louis. The stadium/entertainment district project is a separate issue. It will be a cash cow. If there's one thing Kroenke knows, it's real estate. The Rams will make money from the luxury boxes. Kroenke will be making money from everything else. Most of it is Amazon-proof. It's not just a shopping mall. As I noted above, it's luxury hotels, a music and theater venue, corporate offices and all sorts of things. And if the Chargers were a threat, he wouldn't be sharing the stadium with them.

 

[Flying Okapis]

Just get in some Marketing/commerical Wiz's and get the revenue going would be good enough really . Getting schooled by Fulham in the window is an eye opener .

I dont get how we got schooled by Fulham and all this West Ham/Everton etc have had better windows, yeah they may have spent (blown) more but they are targeting different standards of players.

People were complaining early in the window saying that we were just going around throwing money at clubs and seeing what sticked - that is exactly what Fulham did, not us.

100% agree with the marketing/commercial points though.

 

[Tosker]

I dont get how we got schooled by Fulham and all this West Ham/Everton etc have had better windows, yeah they may have spent (blown) more but they are targeting different standards of players.

People were complaining early in the window saying that we were just going around throwing money at clubs and seeing what sticked - that is exactly what Fulham did, not us.

100% agree with the marketing/commercial points though.

exactly - some people seem to think the PL is decided by who spends most, rather than who wins the most points - take aways cost more money than home cooking but don't make you healthier

 

[Flying Okapis]

exactly - some people seem to think the PL is decided by who spends most, rather than who wins the most points - take aways cost more money than home cooking but don't make you healthier

The only team in the top 6 who have really improved are us and Liverpool, City have just added quantity, Chelsea are pretty much the same.

Everton, West Ham, Fulham, Wolves etc for such great summers as people state I still wouldnt be surprised to see any of them just avoiding relegation come May.

There has been a lot of sideways purchases in my opinion.

 

[celestis]

I dont get how we got schooled by Fulham and all this West Ham/Everton etc have had better windows, yeah they may have spent (blown) more but they are targeting different standards of players.

People were complaining early in the window saying that we were just going around throwing money at clubs and seeing what sticked - that is exactly what Fulham did, not us.

100% agree with the marketing/commercial points though.

Honestly think Fulham had a good strategy and scouting one or two of their players are interesting prospects , quite decent for a newly promoted team .

I just think we could have been a bit more innovative in the market , paying 17 mill for Sokratis is questionable imo but we'll see I guess .

 

[Flying Okapis]

Honestly think Fulham had a good strategy and scouting one or two of their players are interesting prospects , quite decent for a newly promoted team .

I just think we could have been a bit more innovative in the market , paying 17 mill for Sokratis is questionable imo but we'll see I guess .

Oh I dont disagree, we could have shown a bit more but I also wonder what was really out there, so far I wouldnt say we have actually missed out on anyone who has moved and we should have went for.

Maybe Adama

 

[celestis]

Oh I dont disagree, we could have shown a bit more but I also wonder what was really out there, so far I wouldnt say we have actually missed out on anyone who has moved and we should have went for.

Maybe Adama

Forgot about him , the one I wondered about is Malcolm . Then again Nelson and Nketiah are talented wild cards themselves .