English Football 2018/19

[Toby]

But that's what the FA wants. They want clubs to play British (specifically English) players and rely less on foreigners. Brexit may help them accomplish that. But at what cost to the Premier League's quality and overseas marketability?

I don't think it's too bad.

If you have the right eduaction in academies, the standard of british footballers will go up. Germany has to counteract on it now, 'cause they only educated pass-and-move players with too much emphasis on systemic role play. Now there's not enough technical individualists. If you can do both with great educational work, it will only help the domestic talent. But maybe a reform of the youth league system is needed to align it to the German and Spanish model, where these are proper leagues.

It might actually help getting rid of that silly British Bonus you have to overpay for lads with domestic passports.

The rate of foreign players won't drop from 100 to zero instantly and there will be enough foreign top players to keep the league's "exotic" and intl flavour alive regarding marketability. I think by now this has brokenthrougha certain threshold and e.g. the US interest in the PL won't fade below a certain point - although Spain seems to be on the move over the big pond.

Also, there's enough money in the league to keep on luring foreign players with big wages. Teams will have more Chambers, Welbecks and Holdings to fill squad places, but the first XIs will still be studded with mostly foreign stars.

The only big point is see is the actual promise of success. Taking Germany as an example, around the time before and right up to the all German CL final in 2013, the intl success of not only Bayern and risen again Dortmund raised the Bundesliga's profile, but also the relative success of smaller clubs like Gladbach, Leverkusen, et al who excited on the intl stage with state of the art systemic gegenpressing game. That did lure more foreign players to the league. For a lack of actual winning something success, along a drop off of Dortmund, the league going stale again, the heightened profile couldn't be sustained and clubs thought they had top notch academies so they actually also stopped buying. I already laid out how that didn't work out as planned. Now there's a lack of "exotic" ball artists and along the missing success and the lost feature of exciting football the attractiveness has very much fallen.

For the PL that means money is great, but english clubs should start winning stuff again rather sooner than later or Italy or France might overtake them in terms of football attractiveness and the probability of success; also with City emerging as a club even more financially outstanding and willing to spend than last decades' oligarchs, the PL could very well become a one horse race down the line. English football might suffer a similar fate to Germany right now, with top players choosing other leagues and Spain taking over the US market. But that's more a mid- to longterm problem. Right now the attractiveness is still very much given. All in all I don't think new homegrown rules will affect clubs all too much, certainly not shortterm.

 

[Mark Tobias]

But at what cost to the Premier League's quality and overseas marketability?

Could also argue that the 'british grit' is what attracted half of the foreign support. This coming from a foreign supporter...

 

[Slartibartfast]

Could also argue that the 'british grit' is what attracted half of the foreign support. This coming from a foreign supporter...

You could, but I wouldn't. In the 80s the English league's worldwide popularity lagged behind the leagues in Italy and Spain, partially because the style wasn't very attractive. The Premier League opened things up, bringing more money, more lucrative television contracts and -- most of all -- foreign players to England. That's when the popularity of the English game exploded.

Since Dennis Bergkamp debuted for Arsenal in 1995, a total of 59 players have debuted and played 100 games or more for Arsenal. Of those, 50 are from outside the British Isles. Before Bergkamp, there were Anders Limpar and John Jensen. Two. Prior to 1990, Arsenal had never had a player from outside Britain play a significant number of games.

It's not just a Wenger thing either. Take a look at Liverpool, United or Chelsea. Foreign players were almost non-existent for any of the top clubs before the 1990s and have been overwhelmingly the norm since the mid-90s.

So the "British grit" was largely gone by the time the league became popular. In fact, the most marketable English player of the past 30 years, David Beckham, hardly fits that profile. Watch some old games from the 1970s if you want to see British grit. You'll see players get knocked down by bone-crunching tackles and jump right up. Diving and rolling around on the ground was virtually non-existent. It was a tough, direct, hard-nosed game.

 

[Mark Tobias]

You could, but I wouldn't. In the 80s the English league's worldwide popularity lagged behind the leagues in Italy and Spain, partially because the style wasn't very attractive. The Premier League opened things up, bringing more money, more lucrative television contracts and -- most of all -- foreign players to England. That's when the popularity of the English game exploded.

Since Dennis Bergkamp debuted for Arsenal in 1995, a total of 59 players have debuted and played 100 games or more for Arsenal. Of those, 50 are from outside the British Isles. Before Bergkamp, there were Anders Limpar and John Jensen. Two. Prior to 1990, Arsenal had never had a player from outside Britain play a significant number of games.

It's not just a Wenger thing either. Take a look at Liverpool, United or Chelsea. Foreign players were almost non-existent for any of the top clubs before the 1990s and have been overwhelmingly the norm since the mid-90s.

So the "British grit" was largely gone by the time the league became popular. In fact, the most marketable English player of the past 30 years, David Beckham, hardly fits that profile. Watch some old games from the 1970s if you want to see British grit. You'll see players get knocked down by bone-crunching tackles and jump right up. Diving and rolling around on the ground was virtually non-existent. It was a tough, direct, hard-nosed game.

Do you not think perhaps just the perception of that 'british grit' carried over even though, as you say, the true grit of british players had long been lost to the history books?
Perhaps it is simply the language as well. English is understood far and wide which helps I suppose.
I should ask my fathers generation why they started supporting English clubs.

 

[Slartibartfast]

Do you not think perhaps just the perception of that 'british grit' carried over even though, as you say, the true grit of british players had long been lost to the history books?
Perhaps it is simply the language as well. English is understood far and wide which helps I suppose.
I should ask my fathers generation why they started supporting English clubs.

The perception, certainly (especially among the English). English being widely spoken is certainly a factor. It would be interesting to hear your father's thoughts on supporting English clubs. I would imagine -- and this is nothing but deductive reasoning -- that in South Africa and other English-speaking parts of Africa it's probably tied into colonialism. I would figure there to be a lot of traditional support for French clubs in Morocco, for instance. But this may be a wrong assumption on my part.

 

[Mark Tobias]

I would imagine -- and this is nothing but deductive reasoning -- that in South Africa and other English-speaking parts of Africa it's probably tied into colonialism.

I don;t even have to ask. You're actually spot on. Very astute deduction. So generally speaking (pun fully intended) in the white section of the populace, Afrikaners watch Rugby and English people (huge minority) watch Football. Predominantly EPL. Although the rise in Afrikaner interest in 'soccer' is growing. Our black population are almost all football fans but many stick to the local league due to the inaccessability of the viewing channels because of a lack of wealth..

 

[Rex Stone]

If there’s any justice in the world, Leeds and Brentford will walk the Championship. Better football quality than half the league.

Buzzing for the caraboa fixture vs Brentford, think it’ll be a really good game.

 

[Rumour]

Blackpool is appealing the red cards given to two of its players, Marc Bola (ex-Arsenal) and Donervon Daniels, in the final minutes of Sunday's one-goal victory at Plymouth Argyle...


According to the Blackpool Gazette:

The cameras failed to pick up the bizarre altercation between Donervon Daniels and Marc Bola, which led to both being given their marching orders in injury time as Blackpool prepared to defend a corner.

Initial suggestions from the Plymouth fans behind that goal was that the two had come to blows and had each other by the neck and throat. Some in the press box were even comparing it to the infamous fight between Kieron Dyer and Lee Bowyer back in 2005.

But [Blackpool manager] Terry McPhillips played down the incident post-match, claiming Daniels had been upset with Bola for his failure to head a ball away from the penalty area. He insisted no punches or headbutts were exchanged.

 

[GoonerJeeves]

Very concerned about this apparent affinity for Leeds on this board.

I guess the early 90s are distant period for some. But Leeds is as vile a club as you will find in England, and to hope they will gain promotion should be grounds for an instant ban....

 

[krengon]

what a hit!

 

[turkish gooner]

Lpool has a big chance win it imo

 

[OnlyOne]

What a goal from Reach.

 

[A_G]

I know they've only won 3 out of 11 matches this season but they're only 2 points off a playoff place and 7 points off automatic promotion, seems a bit of an overreaction.

 

[Charles Symmons]

I think arsenal will finish 4th this season. Spuds have a tiny squad and Utd are in all sorts of trouble so can see Emery guiding the gunners back into the champions league and its out of Arsenal or Chelsea for the Europa league in my opinion

 

[Oh_Snap]

I guess the early 90s are distant period for some.

it's almost 30 ****ing years mate, give it a rest.

 

[Aevi]

Salah has got fantastic movement, but most other of his qualities are pretty overrated imo. His finishing and decision-making in particular are average. I think that he and Liverpool's style/tactics complement each other very well, but if you were to stick Salah into another team, he wouldn't be particularly impressive.

 

[Toby]

Salah has got fantastic movement, but most other of his qualities are pretty overrated imo. His finishing and decision-making in particular are average. I think that he and Liverpool's style/tactics complement each other very well, but if you were to stick Salah into another team, he wouldn't be particularly impressive.

Not just Salah but that whole squad is testament to Klopp's ability to identify and communicate the profiles he needs for his game. Was the same during his Dortmund heyday. Not just in terms of bringing on, but also who to keep and who to get rid off.

 

[L3T5 PL4Y]

I don't think it's too bad.

If you have the right eduaction in academies, the standard of british footballers will go up. Germany has to counteract on it now, 'cause they only educated pass-and-move players with too much emphasis on systemic role play. Now there's not enough technical individualists. If you can do both with great educational work, it will only help the domestic talent. But maybe a reform of the youth league system is needed to align it to the German and Spanish model, where these are proper leagues.

It might actually help getting rid of that silly British Bonus you have to overpay for lads with domestic passports.

The rate of foreign players won't drop from 100 to zero instantly and there will be enough foreign top players to keep the league's "exotic" and intl flavour alive regarding marketability. I think by now this has brokenthrougha certain threshold and e.g. the US interest in the PL won't fade below a certain point - although Spain seems to be on the move over the big pond.

Also, there's enough money in the league to keep on luring foreign players with big wages. Teams will have more Chambers, Welbecks and Holdings to fill squad places, but the first XIs will still be studded with mostly foreign stars.

The only big point is see is the actual promise of success. Taking Germany as an example, around the time before and right up to the all German CL final in 2013, the intl success of not only Bayern and risen again Dortmund raised the Bundesliga's profile, but also the relative success of smaller clubs like Gladbach, Leverkusen, et al who excited on the intl stage with state of the art systemic gegenpressing game. That did lure more foreign players to the league. For a lack of actual winning something success, along a drop off of Dortmund, the league going stale again, the heightened profile couldn't be sustained and clubs thought they had top notch academies so they actually also stopped buying. I already laid out how that didn't work out as planned. Now there's a lack of "exotic" ball artists and along the missing success and the lost feature of exciting football the attractiveness has very much fallen.

For the PL that means money is great, but english clubs should start winning stuff again rather sooner than later or Italy or France might overtake them in terms of football attractiveness and the probability of success; also with City emerging as a club even more financially outstanding and willing to spend than last decades' oligarchs, the PL could very well become a one horse race down the line. English football might suffer a similar fate to Germany right now, with top players choosing other leagues and Spain taking over the US market. But that's more a mid- to longterm problem. Right now the attractiveness is still very much given. All in all I don't think new homegrown rules will affect clubs all too much, certainly not shortterm.

Yep. And I think the average British talent and profile of player is now improving. The fact that the league from top to bottom has top quality foreign managers also is in favour of the game developing and reaching the pinnacle but the next and most important step would be to produce top coaches from within. This is the most intriguing challenge for British football.

Also I think both the coaches and players need to be open up to opportunities abroad and learn their trade. The money in UK is great and its all comfortable but for growth you need to be open to challenge.

 

[Trilly]

what a hit!

Anyone recall another player playing in the lower leagues who scored two absolute worldies in the space of a few weeks?

Can't for the life of me remember his name.

 

[Rex Stone]

Shahid Khan has pulled out of the Wembley deal. Buzzing.