Mesut Özil: Time to Move Ön?

[A_G]

I disagree, Emery was talking all that good stuff before the season started but once it did he began singing a different tune. At first he wanted to build a team around Ramsey, then it was announced that Emery made the call to pull the contract because Ramsey doesn't "fit" into his team and then Ramsey never started a league game since.

What? Emery had some input but it was a decision from the club. And Ramsey was a big part of the team's play early on, illustrated in the article here.

I'm beginning to question Emery's man management skills. Özil had a tough time with Germany over the summer and all the rest of it and the press have had it out for him since day one. Yet Emery is doing nothing to shield him and keep things in house.

Emery hasn't criticised him in the press, he defended him over his retirement from international football.

If we want him sold, how does it help us to diminish his value by saying he's not even good enough to make our bench but someone like Joe Willock is?

He didn't say Özil wasn't "good enough" for the bench, he said it was tactical reasons. Not sure why people are hung up on the phrasing used by someone who's still improving their English skills.

 

[Preacher]

Gameweeks 1 & 2: Özil started both games (played 90 and 68 min). 2xL
Gameweek 3: missed the game, because of illness. W.
Gameweek 4-7: started all games (played 90,90,90 and 68 min). 4xW.
Gameweek 8: missed the game, back spasms. W
Gameweek 9: Özil is given captain armband for the first time and plays in his favourite no. 10 position for the first time. Best game of the season from Özil against Leicester. W

After the match gives interview and says:
On playing on the right rather than the middle: "For me it is not my best position, I think my best position is as a No 10 but at the end of the day I have to accept and respect what the coach decides".

Gameweek 10 & 11 & 12: starts all 3 games, wears captain armband and plays in the no. 10 position. (played 68, 90 and 76 min). We drew all 3 games. In the first game threw a tantrum after he was subbed off.
Gameweek 13: away game against Bournemouth, unused sub. W
Gameweek 14 & 15 & 16: missed the games, back injury. 2xW, 1xD.
Gameweek 17: plays 20 min off the bench, Southampton ends our unbeaten run.
Gameweek 18: starts against Burnley, wears armband, plays 90min in the no.10 position. W
Gameweek 19: starts against Brighton, plays in the no.10 pos, subbed off after halftime. D
Gameweek 20 & 21: missed the games, knee injury.
Gameweek 22: missed the game, tactical decision.

Something happened before or after the game against Bournemouth. After that game Özil was injured very often or looked poor every time, when he had a chance to impress Emery. Özil has suffered longer injury setbacks, after the games where he was unused sub or subbed off after halftime. Maybe he was fully fit in those games to begin with, but Emery both times didn't mention any injury niggles, only tactical reasons. I'm sure that there is more to it, than meets the eye.

 

[squallman]

No I agree, he should've been on the bench at least. Emery made a rod for his own back there.

But it's true that Wenger gave Özil preferential treatment. It's not a big deal because he did the same thing with Fabregas and RVP, but we shouldn't act like Emery is insulting Özil by treating him like the other players.

Every manager at a big club gives their top star(s) preferential treatment, not just Wenger. Even Ferguson did it. Cantona, Keane, Beckham, Giggs and Ronaldo all got treated better than the other players. Some of the squaddies at United in the 90s were shocked at how much special treatment Cantona used to get whereas Ferguson would bark and scream at them.

If you have a player who performs better than the other members of the squad you treat them better, its that simple. Treating everyone the same might work if you're at a Stoke or West Brom and everyone is on a level together, but not at a top club.

 

[dashsnow17]

I’m not arguing this any longer. It’s entirely reasonable to expect your recently hired manager to include your recently made MVP in the squad for a game against West Ham. It wasn’t the Somme, it was West Ham ffs.

 

[Keplaz]

Every manager at a big club gives their top star(s) preferential treatment, not just Wenger. Even Ferguson did it. Cantona, Keane, Beckham, Giggs and Ronaldo all got treated better than the other players. Some of the squaddies at United in the 90s were shocked at how much special treatment Cantona used to get whereas Ferguson would bark and scream at them.

If you have a player who performs better than the other members of the squad you treat them better, its that simple. Treating everyone the same might work if you're at a Stoke or West Brom and everyone is on a level together, but not at a top club.

But we all learn from experience and Emery got burned at PSG. And it's all fine accomodating your superstars when they're performing and you have enough quality around them, to afford them being effective in bursts.

We don't have that. Mesut has to adapt to what the manager wants. Even Wenger struggled to get the best out of him.

 

[A_G]

Every manager at a big club gives their top star(s) preferential treatment, not just Wenger. Even Ferguson did it. Cantona, Keane, Beckham, Giggs and Ronaldo all got treated better than the other players. Some of the squaddies at United in the 90s were shocked at how much special treatment Cantona used to get whereas Ferguson would bark and scream at them.

And you could name just as many star players that Ferguson got rid of when he thought they overstepped the mark or got too big for their own good.

If you have a player who performs better than the other members of the squad you treat them better, its that simple. Treating everyone the same might work if you're at a Stoke or West Brom and everyone is on a level together, but not at a top club.

I'm talking about all the days off training and holidays abroad that Wenger allowed him. Özil was in some resort in Turkey while even Alexis was playing on a plastic pitch in the FA Cup against non-league opposition in sub-zero temperatures.

 

[squallman]

What? Emery had some input but it was a decision from the club. And Ramsey was a big part of the team's play early on, illustrated in the article here.

Emery hasn't criticised him in the press, he defended him over his retirement from international football.

He didn't say Özil wasn't "good enough" for the bench, he said it was tactical reasons. Not sure why people are hung up on the phrasing used by someone who's still improving their English skills.

I thought I read somewhere that Emery made the final call.

https://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/f...ron-Ramsey-transfer-Unai-Emery-rumours-gossip

It could be bullshit.

Emery hasn't come out and said Özil is awful. However what he has said and done, hasn't painted Özil in a good light. "He is not in the squad for tactical reasons". How can Özil not even be on the bench for tactical reasons but Joe Willock is?

Reporter: "Is Özil injured?"
Emery: "No he is fit I just went with the squad I did for tactical reasons"

What can Willock give us that Özil can't? For me Emery hasn't tried to protect Özil at all during this saga and its akin to coming out and criticizing him.

 

[Rimaal]

But he'd be antithetical to Guardiola, Klopp and Pochettino's philosophies as well. Let's face it, most modern managers would struggle to fit Özil into their team. I don't think that's a knock against Emery at all, it's down to Özil to adapt his game. If Kante can adjust to a new role under Sarri without causing a fuss, there's no reason why Özil can knuckle down and try to do the same.

I also don't believe this is something personal between the two. After the WC, Emery was defending Özil from all the criticism he faced and talking about how they wanted to make him feel welcome when came back. Emery isn't actually treating him poorly, he's just not giving him special privileges like Wenger did.

You can't be fecking serious.

 

[A_G]

I thought I read somewhere that Emery made the final call.

https://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/f...ron-Ramsey-transfer-Unai-Emery-rumours-gossip

It could be bullshit.

Emery hasn't come out and said Özil is awful. However what he has said and done, hasn't painted Özil in a good light. "He is not in the squad for tactical reasons". How can Özil not even be on the bench for tactical reasons but Joe Willock is?

Reporter: "Is Özil injured?"
Emery: "No he is fit I just went with the squad I did for tactical reasons"

What can Willock give us that Özil can't? For me Emery hasn't tried to protect Özil at all during this saga and its akin to coming out and criticizing him.

It's not his job to coddle Özil. Look at other clubs: Pep Guardiola in his first season made some comments that suggested Aguero wasn't a great fit for his team, even dropped him for big games like the Manchester Derby. That was an actual club legend too, so you could understand the fans being unhappy with his omission. This is what he said:

"Besides my responsibilities as a striker, he wanted to get me involved as the first defender of the team. When Gabriel Jesus arrived, he had more options and I started to play less.

"I kept giving my best in practice and working hard so, when Gabriel went down with an injury, I was able to come back stronger and scored a lot of goals.

"I think this year we were on the same page with Pep. He told me he was happy with my performance and his anger was worth it because I had a better year."

Did he complain about being hung out to dry in the press? No, he got his head down and worked hard to get another chance in the team.

 

[squallman]

And you could name just as many star players that Ferguson got rid of when he thought they overstepped the mark or got too big for their own good.

I'm talking about all the days off training and holidays abroad that Wenger allowed him. Özil was in some resort in Turkey while even Alexis was playing on a plastic pitch in the FA Cup against non-league opposition in sub-zero temperatures.

Ferguson did get rid but at the same time I can't remember him coming out and hanging them out to dry before he did so. The man came out to a press conference crying about Rooney and how important he was to the club all the while trying to get him sold to Chelsea.

Different strokes for different folks. Alexis always wanted to play so Wenger indulged him in that respect. If he told the boss that he wanted time off to go to Chile, there isn't a doubt in my mind that Wenger would have let him go.

It also seems like Özil has a chronic back problem so perhaps Wenger letting him miss so many training sessions was a part of that.

You don't come to a club and pick fights with the star players or treat them poorly. Its what got Mourinho sacked at his last three clubs.

If Emery wants Özil sold, more power to him. I just cannot for the life of me understand his refusal to use Özil in the interim.

Are we more creative without him? No
Are we more defensively stable without him and all these supposed workhorses in the team? No.
Is the club paying him an exorbitant of money every week without seeing a return on investment if he's sat at home? Yes

So just play him.

 

[squallman]

It's not his job to coddle Özil. Look at other clubs: Pep Guardiola in his first season made some comments that suggested Aguero wasn't a great fit for his team, even dropped him for big games like the Manchester Derby. That was an actual club legend too, so you could understand the fans being unhappy with his omission. This is what he said:

Did he complain about being hung out to dry in the press? No, he got his head down and worked hard to get another chance in the team.

Fair point well made. However there is a difference, Gabriel Jesus is a far better replacement for Aguero than the likes of Iwobi/Mkhitaryan are for Özil.

I wouldn't be so annoyed about this whole Özil situation if Iwobi was performing better than the German but he isn't so I am.

Özil hasn't complained yet either for what its worth and his agent has even come out and said that Özil is going nowhere and he plans to work hard to win his team.

 

[Beast Incarnate]

Not even having him on the bench is inexcusable.

 

[krengon]

Fair point well made. However there is a difference, Gabriel Jesus is a far better replacement for Aguero than the likes of Iwobi/Mkhitaryan are for Özil.

I wouldn't be so annoyed about this whole Özil situation if Iwobi was performing better than the German but he isn't so I am.

Özil hasn't complained yet either for what its worth and his agent has even come out and said that Özil is going nowhere and he plans to work hard to win his team.

right, people love using Klopp as an example here, when he took over Liverpool Coutinho was one of the best players they had, he's obviously not a Klopp type player, but Klopp adapted to him and fit him in the team.. He didn't freeze him out to play someone inferior in quality, but who fit his style better. Instead he did his best to fit him in the team, had him playing at a pots level, before selling him and getting players that fit his style more.. Pep when he took over Barca was desperate to get rid of Eto'o as he didn't fit his plans.. When that didn't happen, he didn't freeze Eto'o out for inferior players, he recognized what he could offer and played him, Eto'o even scored in the cl final that season.. Next summer he got rid..

Quality of players >> System always. Any system that has Kolasinac being main creator over Özil is ****. Any system that has Iwobi and Mkhitaryan being more important than Özil and Lacazette is ****.. He needs to adapt to the squad he has, get the best out of the best players in the squad, and then replace them in the summer with the players he wants.

 

[A_G]

Fair point well made. However there is a difference, Gabriel Jesus is a far better replacement for Aguero than the likes of Iwobi/Mkhitaryan are for Özil.

I wouldn't be so annoyed about this whole Özil situation if Iwobi was performing better than the German but he isn't so I am.

Özil hasn't complained yet either for what its worth and his agent has even come out and said that Özil is going nowhere and he plans to work hard to win his team.

Other than injuries and illness, he's been starting every game outside of Southampton when he just came back. It's not been a case of Mkhi/Iwobi being preferred, that's only true if you don't believe that those are genuine injuries.

 

[Yousif Arsenal]

Other than injuries and illness, he's been starting every game outside of Southampton when he just came back. It's not been a case of Mkhi/Iwobi being preferred, that's only true if you don't believe that those are genuine injuries.

So he played 13 games from 22. 8 games injured 1 game he been left out if I'm not wrong.

 

[A_G]

So he played 13 games from 22. 8 games injured 1 game he been left out if I'm not wrong.

Yep, the first Fulham game he had a back problem too which is actually believable considering he had to take a long flight to and from Baku. The only game where you can really say Emery preferred other players was Bournemouth away.

 

[Yousif Arsenal]

Yep, the first Fulham game he had a back problem too which is actually believable considering he had to take a long flight to and from Baku. The only game where you can really say Emery preferred other players was Bournemouth away.

So all that emery treatment is bit wrong expect him to start most of games if he didn't had back problems

 

[squallman]

Other than injuries and illness, he's been starting every game outside of Southampton when he just came back. It's not been a case of Mkhi/Iwobi being preferred, that's only true if you don't believe that those are genuine injuries.

Bournemouth? Sp**s in the cup? West Ham?

Just noticed the back trouble claims against Sp**s. What was all that garbage about tactical options about then? Why not just say he was injured from the start?

Otherwise, if Özil has been injured then he's been injured. I just haven't been getting that impression from Emery's comments.

 

[OSBK]

He has back issues, knee issues and mental issues. Looking back at his trans from real, did we knowingly sign a crock? Is the frustration he shows because his body cannot do what he wants now?

The trans from real was fishy, how easily we got him was fishy, how often he has the same reccuring injury is fishy.

 

[<<reed>>]

Not even having him on the bench is inexcusable.

Maybe Özil is refusing to be on the bench