• ! ! ! IMPORTANT MESSAGE ! ! !

    Discussions about police investigations

    In light of recent developments about a player from Premier League being arrested and until there is an official announcement, ALL users should refrain from discussing or speculating about situations around personal off-pitch matters related to any Arsenal player. This is to protect you and the forum.

    Users who disregard this reminder will be issued warnings and their posts will get deleted from public.

Emery's Loan Targets With An Obligation to Buy But We Want An Option to Buy Hopefully: January 2019

What two players would you prefer we got with the loan/buy shenanigans?


  • Total voters
    88
Status
Not open for further replies.

Slartibartfast

CIES Loyalist
I mean... Yeah, we've made bad financial decisions when it comes to players.

What Kroenke is doing is using his equity in Arsenal as financial leverage towards the $1 billion dollar loan he took out to build the Rams' new stadium. This means he's more focused on not just keeping a balanced budget but making money and not spending it (he needs Arsenal to be in good financial standing with the banks, which means he wont take any financial risks and instead be a stingy owner). Given he doesn't have to make the financial reports public, I'm sure he'll be taking more money out at some point.

Arsenal was not used to secure Kroenke's loan. This is a myth that's been perpetuated by Arsenal fans for quite awhile now, but Arsenal is safely separate from Kroenke's stadium venture (which, by the way, will be one of the greatest moneymaking ventures in sports history and as safe a bet as can possibly be imagined). Nor has he taken a penny from Arsenal to fund the stadium. Kroenke has a personal fortune of about $8.5 billion and, in a pinch, the Walmart fortune. He doesn't need Arsenal to leverage a loan. He put $1.6 billion of his own money into the project.
 

al-Ustaadh

👳‍♂️ Figuring out how to delete my account 👳‍♂️
Arsenal was not used to secure Kroenke's loan. This is a myth that's been perpetuated by Arsenal fans for quite awhile now, but Arsenal is safely separate from Kroenke's stadium venture (which, by the way, will be one of the greatest moneymaking ventures in sports history and as safe a bet as can possibly be imagined). Nor has he taken a penny from Arsenal to fund the stadium. Kroenke has a personal fortune of about $8.5 billion and, in a pinch, the Walmart fortune. He doesn't need Arsenal to leverage a loan. He put $1.6 billion of his own money into the project.
Walmart isn't his - it's his wife's. My understanding is he took a large loan from the banks that he leveraged with his assets - Arsenal are part of those assets.

https://www.bizjournals.com/losangeles/news/2018/05/16/rams-stadium-costs-top-4-billion.html

Rams/Chargers Stadium cost sources
Amount Source

  • $2.25 billion, Banks
  • $1.6 billion, Stan and Ann Kroenke
  • $400 million, NFL stadium financing
Total: $4.25 billion

Source: SportsBusiness Journal research

Notice costs for the stadium continue to go up (previous estimations were $2.3 billion, and it's now over $4). And that the bank loans are more than double what I previously mentioned.

Also... I think people are overestimating the pay-off of this stadium. NFL ratings have been on the decline, and as concerns over concussions increase, those numbers will continue to go down and ratings for soccer ("football") will go up (you have to realize this is a trickle down effect in American culture; people already wont let their kids play football until high school, which less and less are becoming interested in doing anyways). I don't expect the NFL to be around in 25 years (my dad played in the NFL and I've had conversations with Hall of Famers about this; if it survives, it wont be anything like what it is now as a sport - my dad jokes it'll be, "two-touch football"). I'm of the personal belief that rugby will probably replace it as a like-for-like while the fan bases for boxing and UFC will also go up. Kroenke is looking too much in the short term and he hasn't paid enough attention to the changing culture that surrounds the game, and at the same time they're pricing out their main fan base (the smaller market teams, which make up a good portion of the League, don't even come close to selling out games).
 
Last edited:

al-Ustaadh

👳‍♂️ Figuring out how to delete my account 👳‍♂️
I can give you a string of quotes -- before and after that -- where he has said the opposite. Here's one:

"The reason I am involved in sport is to win," he said. "It's what it's all about. Everything else is a footnote."

"I can assure you no-one is more ambitious than me."

I realize that most Arsenal fans have been jealous of Manchester City and their plaything owner, but the problem is not that Kroenke isn't throwing cash at the club like a drunken sailor on shore leave in a strip club.

The club has plenty of money without Kroenke investment. Hell, they've spent a ton on players the past couple of years. To say they won't spend is contrary to what's been happening. The problem is the sudden growth in their wage bill pushed them to the limits of Short-Term Cost Control.

Football financial expert Swiss Ramble took a detailed look at Arsenal's finances just the other day. Here's the truth of Arsenal's wage increase (and I highly recommend the entire thread, before and after this tweet):


Edit: by the way, one of the things that clubs can use to boost their wage limit is increases in match day revenue. Arsenal's match day revenue actually dropped last season because of people staying away from the stadium. So that further hindered their STCC situation.
These are from 2017-2018. Yes, they're sourced as Arsenal PLC Holdings, but I don't think you'll see this current fiscal year's budget be released to the public next year given the takeover was completed in August/September.

Edit: Also, I don't buy into these interviews he gives - it's a fake persona, the guy doesn't ****ing care. The fact you can find contradictive quotes shows that as well as the fact the Rams have only had recent success, while all of his other sports franchises have done awful.
 
Last edited:

Slartibartfast

CIES Loyalist
Walmart isn't his - it's his wife's. My understanding is he took a large loan from the banks that he leveraged with his assets - Arsenal are part of those assets.

https://www.bizjournals.com/losangeles/news/2018/05/16/rams-stadium-costs-top-4-billion.html

Rams/Chargers Stadium cost sources
Amount Source

  • $2.25 billion, Banks
  • $1.6 billion, Stan and Ann Kroenke
  • $400 million, NFL stadium financing
Total: $4.25 billion

Source: SportsBusiness Journal research

Notice costs for the stadium continue to go up (previous estimations were $2.3 billion, and it's now over $4). And that the bank loans are more than double what I previously mentioned.

Also... I think people are overestimating the pay-off of this stadium. NFL ratings have been on the decline, and as concerns over concussions increase, those numbers will continue to go down and ratings for soccer ("football") will go up. I don't expect the NFL to be around in 25 years (my dad played in the NFL and I've had conversations with Hall of Famers about this; if it survives, it wont be anything like what it is now as a sport). I'm of the personal belief that rugby will probably replace it as a like-for-like while the fan bases for boxing and UFC will also go up. Kroenke is looking too much in the short term and he hasn't paid attention to the changing culture that surrounds the game, and at the same time they're pricing out their main fan base (the smaller market teams, which make up a good portion of the League, don't even come close to selling out games).

Walmart isn't his wife's either. She only has part of it. But if Kroenke needed a quick cash infusion from his wife and in-laws -- he doesn't -- he could swing it. But that's not the point. Neither is the cost of the stadium (about half of Kroenke's personal wealth -- alone, not including his wife, who has another $6.6 billion fortune of her own. Josh Kroenke has another $2.6 billion. And, of course, neither the stadium cost nor the loan are in any way relevant to Arsenal since Kroenke did not put Arsenal up in any way was collateral for the loan. Even if somehow he blew his entire fortune on this deal (instead of making another fortune, which is what will happen), the worst it could mean for Arsenal would be that he would sell the club (which I would think would make you happy).

Whether the NFL is around in another 25 years is also irrelevant. They're around now and the stadium project will have been long-settled by that time. But the idea that an NFL franchise would be a money loser is preposterous. NFL attendance was down slightly overall in 2018 (a trend in all sports, actually), but 13 clubs saw attendance increases. Any guesses as to which team saw the biggest increase in attendance? Yep, the Rams. In fact, the Rams' attendance grew by 14.3 percent to 579,439. The Rams will also have an NFL tenant, the Chargers, paying them for using the stadium when the Rams aren't. So the Rams are already raking in the cash and will be making money head over heels once the new stadium is opened.

By the way, the project is actually NFL proof anyway. Even if the NFL folded in 25 years (it won't) -- or 10 -- this isn't just a stadium like The Emirates. It's an entire entertainment district. The Washington Post described it as "bigger than Disneyland" and "perfect for L.A."

They described it thus:

At a cost estimated at more than $5 billion, the development – its formal name is the LA Stadium & Entertainment District at Hollywood Park – includes a 70,240-seat stadium and 6,000-seat performance center under one roof that will anchor a 298-acre complex of office buildings, shops, restaurants, residential units, hotels and parks. It’s 3 1/2 the size of Disneyland and twice as big as Vatican City.

Look, if there's one person who knows how to make money on development projects, it's Stan Kroenke. He may not know a counter attack from an offside trap, but he knows development. This thing is going to be a huge cash cow. But, again, even if it fails, it has nothing to do with Arsenal. You can be upset that Kroenke isn't a personal plaything owner like Abramovich or Mansour, but the idea that Arsenal is being used to fund the Rams or the stadium is simply ridiculous.

https://www.mercurynews.com/2019/01...r-than-disneyland-it-might-be-perfect-for-la/
 

Slartibartfast

CIES Loyalist
These are from 2017-2018. Yes, they're sourced as Arsenal PLC Holdings, but I don't think you'll see this current fiscal year's budget be released to the public next year given the takeover was completed in August/September.

Edit: Also, I don't buy into these interviews he gives - it's a fake persona, the guy doesn't ****ing care. The fact you can find contradictive quotes shows that as well as the fact the Rams have only had recent success, while all of his other sports franchises have done awful.

Arsenal has broken its transfer record twice in the past 18 months or so. How can you argue that they may have stopped spending money since 2017?

And how many times do I have to say it? The success or failure of the American sports franchises he owns (or that Josh owns, specifically the Nuggets and Avalanche since Stan had to divest himself of those teams to buy the Rams) is completely irrelevant to Arsenal. American sports do not operate in the same way. It's comparing apples and bananas.

That said, again not that it relates to Arsenal in any way, the fact is that when Kroenke took over the Rams just before the 2010 season, they were the worst team in the NFL. They were coming off a 1-15 season. They've shown steady improvement through the years of his ownership until finally hitting on the right combination through several years of good drafting, a dynamic young coach and a handful of good free agent signings. To portray Kroenke's ownership of the Rams as anything but a success is a dishonest narrative.

Also, the Nuggets currently have the second best record in the Western Conference and the Avalanche are in the thick of the Stanley Cup playoff hunt again. So even if you could argue that this alleged lack of success with his American teams had anything remotely to do with Arsenal, it would be rather difficult considering the success they're having.
 

al-Ustaadh

👳‍♂️ Figuring out how to delete my account 👳‍♂️
Whether the NFL is around in another 25 years is also irrelevant. They're around now and the stadium project will have been long-settled by that time. But the idea that an NFL franchise would be a money loser is preposterous. NFL attendance was down slightly overall in 2018 (a trend in all sports, actually), but 13 clubs saw attendance increases. Any guesses as to which team saw the biggest increase in attendance? Yep, the Rams. In fact, the Rams' attendance grew by 14.3 percent to 579,439. The Rams will also have an NFL tenant, the Chargers, paying them for using the stadium when the Rams aren't. So the Rams are already raking in the cash and will be making money head over heels once the new stadium is opened.

This just proves my point... It's only the larger market teams.

Walmart isn't his wife's either. She only has part of it. But if Kroenke needed a quick cash infusion from his wife and in-laws -- he doesn't -- he could swing it. But that's not the point. Neither is the cost of the stadium (about half of Kroenke's personal wealth -- alone, not including his wife, who has another $6.6 billion fortune of her own. Josh Kroenke has another $2.6 billion. And, of course, neither the stadium cost nor the loan are in any way relevant to Arsenal since Kroenke did not put Arsenal up in any way was collateral for the loan. Even if somehow he blew his entire fortune on this deal (instead of making another fortune, which is what will happen), the worst it could mean for Arsenal would be that he would sell the club (which I would think would make you happy).

With relation to Stan, Walmart is his wife's.

It's important to note that Kroenke isn't cash rich, he's asset rich. This was reported by Forbes when he took over Arsenal.

Is it not basic business practice to leverage your assets for bank loans to be utilized towards other enterprises?

By the way, the project is actually NFL proof anyway. Even if the NFL folded in 25 years (it won't) -- or 10 -- this isn't just a stadium like The Emirates. It's an entire entertainment district. The Washington Post described it as "bigger than Disneyland" and "perfect for L.A."

Time will tell. But as an American, and with the conversations I hear, I don't see the NFL being the money maker it is right now in the next couple of decades, and I still don't think the League will be around come 2045. Health costs and the player's union will have a big role to play in that (not to mention the dwindling fan base).

Look, if there's one person who knows how to make money on development projects, it's Stan Kroenke. He may not know a counter attack from an offside trap, but he knows development. This thing is going to be a huge cash cow. But, again, even if it fails, it has nothing to do with Arsenal. You can be upset that Kroenke isn't a personal plaything owner like Abramovich or Mansour, but the idea that Arsenal is being used to fund the Rams or the stadium is simply ridiculous.

I'm not upset that Kroenke isn't a plaything owner. I'm more upset that he isn't an owner who cares about the Club and its community. The countries may be different, and so may the laws, but give it time... he'll double-cross the Club and its fans at some point. I only hope I'm wrong.
 

Slartibartfast

CIES Loyalist
This just proves my point... It's only the larger market teams.



With relation to Stan, Walmart is his wife's.

It's important to note that Kroenke isn't cash rich, he's asset rich. This was reported by Forbes when he took over Arsenal.

Is it not basic business practice to leverage your assets for bank loans to be utilized towards other enterprises?



Time will tell. But as an American, and with the conversations I hear, I don't see the NFL being the money maker it is right now in the next couple of decades, and I still don't think the League will be around come 2045. Health costs and the player's union will have a big role to play in that (not to mention the dwindling fan base).



I'm not upset that Kroenke isn't a plaything owner. I'm more upset that he isn't an owner who cares about the Club and its community. The countries may be different, and so may the laws, but give it time... he'll double-cross the Club and its fans at some point. I only hope I'm wrong.

I'm not going to go over this point by point again. I have something of a life (even if it's only watching Hogan's Heroes). But, again, what the NFL may or may not be in 25 years is completely irrelevant. Kroenke will be dead by then, somebody else will own Arsenal and the stadium and entertainment complex will have been a cash cow for a couple of decades.

However, I did just find this from Bloomberg:

"The Los Angeles Rams’ Super Bowl berth has been good news for its merchandise business, with the team ringing up about $3.5 million in online sales in the 10 days after they clinched a spot in the big game."

But you go ahead and live in Kroenke conspiracy world if you want. There's no evidence for anything you're claiming. It sounds like an episode of Alex Jones' radio program.
 

al-Ustaadh

👳‍♂️ Figuring out how to delete my account 👳‍♂️
Arsenal has broken its transfer record twice in the past 18 months or so. How can you argue that they may have stopped spending money since 2017?

And how many times do I have to say it? The success or failure of the American sports franchises he owns (or that Josh owns, specifically the Nuggets and Avalanche since Stan had to divest himself of those teams to buy the Rams) is completely irrelevant to Arsenal. American sports do not operate in the same way. It's comparing apples and bananas.

That said, again not that it relates to Arsenal in any way, the fact is that when Kroenke took over the Rams just before the 2010 season, they were the worst team in the NFL. They were coming off a 1-15 season. They've shown steady improvement through the years of his ownership until finally hitting on the right combination through several years of good drafting, a dynamic young coach and a handful of good free agent signings. To portray Kroenke's ownership of the Rams as anything but a success is a dishonest narrative.

Also, the Nuggets currently have the second best record in the Western Conference and the Avalanche are in the thick of the Stanley Cup playoff hunt again. So even if you could argue that this alleged lack of success with his American teams had anything remotely to do with Arsenal, it would be rather difficult considering the success they're having.

I didn't say anything about Arsenal not spending money. Yes, we've been self-sustainable. My point is how Arsenal's finances will start to be secretive, as I do find them to be connected to his Rams' stadium venture (and any other venture of his in the future; who's saying he wont have another one?).

That dishonest narrative depends on who you're talking to. Ask the St. Louis fanbase. While Kroenke says he wont leverage the Deutsche loans against Arsenal, I wouldn't be surprised if he double-crossed the Club and eventually did (for whatever reason). I find it humorous that the Rams' success has correlated with their move to LA and the push to build "disneyland the stadium". Makes it seem like he got superficially serious just so he could get the stadium.

Glad to know a majority of his franchises are starting to have success. For the longest time they were at the bottom of the barrel. Good news for Arsenal.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love for Arsenal to succeed. But I don't trust Kroenke, and he has a track record not to. When Vince McMahon calls you out, you know you're a cold-hearted prick.
 
Last edited:

al-Ustaadh

👳‍♂️ Figuring out how to delete my account 👳‍♂️
However, I did just find this from Bloomberg:

"The Los Angeles Rams’ Super Bowl berth has been good news for its merchandise business, with the team ringing up about $3.5 million in online sales in the 10 days after they clinched a spot in the big game."

But you go ahead and live in Kroenke conspiracy world if you want. There's no evidence for anything you're claiming. It sounds like an episode of Alex Jones' radio program.
Again... this is a large market team. Not representative of the smaller market teams that make up the League.

Edit: Also... anytime there's a dwindling in consumers for a particular business and its market, there's usually losses and not profits. Doesn't matter if Stan is dead and gone or if it takes 25 years... It's the slow decline and the negative business affect that that has over that time period.
 
Last edited:

Vinci

The Sultan of Unai

Country: Netherlands
And why would anyone believe what Crossy has to say?
Cross is a true genius. He looked into his crystal ball and saw that we aren't going to make CL and the new commercial deals aren't all that, ergo summer budget is 40M.
 

Kingslayer

Forza Milan
I'm considering to ban John Cross tweets.

arsenal-fan-celebration-gif.gif
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom