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Jurgen Klopp's Liverpool: Off You Pop, Klopp

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A_G

Rice Rice Baby 🎼🎵
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I think you're being a bit optimistic if you think them missing out on the title this season is going to ruin them as a club... They've gone 30 years without the title and they still attract decent players and have an absolutely massive global fanbase.
We've achieved far more than they have in recent years yet our club has a negative atmosphere 80% of the time and their fanbase is well known for the "it's our year" line...
In terms of players, they still bring in big names. They just signed arguably the best CB in world football on the back of how many title-less seasons.. Yes they lost Coutinho and Suarez but even United in their prime were losing their big players to those clubs. Winning titles did nothing to sway that

I think you probably have better reasoning. If so, I'm all ears.
It took them years to recover from losing Suarez, Sterling and essentially Strurridge. Same thing happened years before when Alonso, Mascherano and Torres left, they dropped down from consistent top 4 to finishing below Everton. Just look at Chelsea after selling Costa and Courtois, with Terry, Matic and Fabregas declining. They're not the same club, likely to finish 5th and possibly losing their last two WC players in Hazard/Kante. If that happens they'll be set to enter a lean period.
 

Mark Tobias

Mr. Agreeable
It took them years to recover from losing Suarez, Sterling and essentially Strurridge. Same thing happened years before when Alonso, Mascherano and Torres left, they dropped down from consistent top 4 to finishing below Everton. Just look at Chelsea after selling Costa and Courtois, with Terry, Matic and Fabregas declining. They're not the same club, likely to finish 5th and possibly losing their last two WC players in Hazard/Kante. If that happens they'll be set to enter a lean period.
Years to recover from Suarez? You trying to make it seem like longer ago? They challenged for the league that season, lost Suarez and now just on four years later are challenging again... Think you are severely underestimating them. Less than half a decade to recover from a massive loss without the help of a sugar Daddy... While United, City and Chelsea spend more and more and more

Also, Chelsea are a different dog. For me the main difference is the fact that Chelsea and City seem to heavily rely on money to get them back up there while Liverpool have been shrewd in every aspect from managerial appointments to players in the last half a decade. Not that they have not spent but where they spend they do so wisely.

Another poster mentioned, too, that we're basically in desperate need of emulating Liverpool if we want to compete and that is why I see it as a win for us. Your points are fair but I don't see how City winning wouldn't equally hurt us. It solidifies them as a big club further and they will have more license to go out and spend again as their squad ages.
Either way a brand is being strengthened. I prefer the one still trying to hold onto football's important values
 

A_G

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Years to recover from Suarez? You trying to make it seem like longer ago? They challenged for the league that season, lost Suarez and now just on four years later are challenging again...
:lol: so you agree, it took years to recover to get back to that level
 

Mark Tobias

Mr. Agreeable
Anyone who wants Liverpool to win the league clearly doesn't personally know any Liverpool fans.

One of my best mates who usually doesn't really follow football has been texting me every Liverpool match since November just because they're winning a lot this season. It's infuriating and if they win the league then the "fans" will come crawling out the woodwork in their millions. It will be unbearable.
What absolute rubbish.
Liverpool fans are a plenty. They have loyalty at the very least. Out of the english clubs they're likely the second most supported in the league, Globally speaking.
My brother has never seen them win the league but he has every shirt they've had in his lifetime and very seldom misses a game. Almost every Liverpool fan I have ever met in this country is that way. Loyal beyond belief and always loud with the typical "It's ours this year" at the beginning of every season. They don't need to come out of the woodwork. They're ever present and it is a testament to their club and it's history.

City fans on the other hand... Own 3 shirts; the earliest being 2011. None of them know who Shaun Wright-Phillips is or that Anelka once featured for them.
Chelsea fans are similar. Can't find one who actually knew they were a London club before Abrohomovic and they fade in and out of obscurity depending on their league position.
Heck even United fans have dwindled in number in the last half decade.

None of that is true for Liverpool fans.
 

Mark Tobias

Mr. Agreeable
:lol: so you agree, it took years to recover to get back to that level
It just appeared as if you were trying to make it seem like a long time but in fact the 4 years is nothing when you consider how big a player he was for them.
I also don't buy this notion that landing up 2nd by a fine margin would devastate their status. If anything players will be able to be fed the "you're the final piece of our puzzle" hogwash that Wenger tried to feed some of our signings...

I honestly thought when they lost Coutinho they'd be down and out for a few more years but clearly they know how to handle big losses there. Got to say that a decade ago I was not at all envious but right now I am outright jealous of their league position, their recruitment techniques and the way they are handling themselves in spite of not spending quite as much as their main rivals (of which we are no longer one)...
 

krackpot

Established Member
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I honestly thought when they lost Coutinho they'd be down and out for a few more years but clearly they know how to handle big losses there.
Coutinho was **** too, so there's that.
I also don't buy this notion that landing up 2nd by a fine margin would devastate their status. If anything players will be able to be fed the "you're the final piece of our puzzle" hogwash that Wenger tried to feed some of our signings..
sorry for jumping in,but I agree with this. Professional players would still be tempted by a team which regularly comes 2nd or 3rd. Purely for money matters and also that they can leave for a bigger club, which is what Coutinho did.
 

A_G

Rice Rice Baby 🎼🎵
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It just appeared as if you were trying to make it seem like a long time but in fact the 4 years is nothing when you consider how big a player he was for them.
4 years is a long time in football, this time 4 years ago we were about to embark on a run of title winning league form. Today we're in a position where most people think we're finishing 6th.
I also don't buy this notion that landing up 2nd by a fine margin would devastate their status. If anything players will be able to be fed the "you're the final piece of our puzzle" hogwash that Wenger tried to feed some of our signings...
Of course bottling the league from the position they were in would hurt them. They were undefeated until January, could've gone 7 points clear at the start of February so to not win the league from that position a year after losing the CL final would hurt. Ask Fabregas, Nasri and RVP what it feels like to be so close to winning without actually doing it. When the big guns come for you, it's a lot easier to have your head turned when you've gone trophyless for so long.
 

PoleInGoal

Well-Known Member

Player:Tomiyasu
What absolute rubbish.
Liverpool fans are a plenty. They have loyalty at the very least. Out of the english clubs they're likely the second most supported in the league, Globally speaking.
My brother has never seen them win the league but he has every shirt they've had in his lifetime and very seldom misses a game. Almost every Liverpool fan I have ever met in this country is that way. Loyal beyond belief and always loud with the typical "It's ours this year" at the beginning of every season. They don't need to come out of the woodwork. They're ever present and it is a testament to their club and it's history.

City fans on the other hand... Own 3 shirts; the earliest being 2011. None of them know who Shaun Wright-Phillips is or that Anelka once featured for them.
Chelsea fans are similar. Can't find one who actually knew they were a London club before Abrohomovic and they fade in and out of obscurity depending on their league position.
Heck even United fans have dwindled in number in the last half decade.

None of that is true for Liverpool fans.

My post probably came across wrong.

I certainly wouldn't begrudge these kinds of fans who are ever present and always backing their team, but more the ones who don't seem to care about them until they are about to win something. E.g. the bloke I spoke about in my post was exactly the same in the season they bottled the league, and as soon as that happened he didn't talk about football until this season.

I know every club has fairweather fans, but from my experience Liverpool has many more of them than other clubs. I notice when they are doing well how many people (who usually don't care about football) start piping up about being Liverpool fans, only to vanish again when things aren't going well. I haven't experienced this with clubs like City or Chelsea
 

Mark Tobias

Mr. Agreeable
My post probably came across wrong.

I certainly wouldn't begrudge these kinds of fans who are ever present and always backing their team, but more the ones who don't seem to care about them until they are about to win something. E.g. the bloke I spoke about in my post was exactly the same in the season they bottled the league, and as soon as that happened he didn't talk about football until this season.

I know every club has fairweather fans, but from my experience Liverpool has many more of them than other clubs. I notice when they are doing well how many people (who usually don't care about football) start piping up about being Liverpool fans, only to vanish again when things aren't going well. I haven't experienced this with clubs like City or Chelsea
Okay let me just apologise for my response as well. We were both being completely subjective. Myself especially because I am a bit more attached to Pool through my bro plus the club has extensive history with South Africa ('Kop end' named after Spioenkop dam etc)

Clearly there are differences around the world in the way fans are. I suspect certain cultural differences may even play a part.

From my side I have only experienced loyal liverpool fans who are constantly deluded that they're winning the season every season:lol: Even when they suck.

Fairweather fans here are United. Since Fergie left I can honestly say the number of United shirts around has more than halved.
Since City first won the league I have met 4 City fans... THERE WERE NONE BEFORE THAT;)

But as I say. It can and almost certainly is very different in other countries so I do apologise for that snotty reply.
 

A_G

Rice Rice Baby 🎼🎵
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Um what exactly did these players almost win when they were here?
They left because we were miles off not because we missed it by a slither.
What are you on about? Between Fabregas and RVP first, then Nasri from 2008 onwards:
05/06 lost CL final
06/07 lost LC final
07/08 lost PL title by 4 points
07/08 lost LC semi-final
08/09 lost FA Cup semi-final
08/09 lost CL semi-final
09/10 lost the PL title despite being in the race come April:
Untitled.jpg

10/11 lost the LC final
10/11 lost the PL after losing a 1-0 lead over Liverpool in injury time then a 3-1 lead over Sp**s a few days later. Otherwise, we'd have been 2 points off with just 5 games left and United still to play at home:
Untitled.jpg


To say that this group of players didn't have any close calls with winning trophies is laughable
 

Mark Tobias

Mr. Agreeable
What are you on about? Between Fabregas and RVP first, then Nasri from 2008 onwards:
05/06 lost CL final
06/07 lost LC final
07/08 lost PL title by 4 points
07/08 lost LC semi-final
08/09 lost FA Cup semi-final
08/09 lost CL semi-final
09/10 lost the PL title despite being in the race come April:
Untitled.jpg

10/11 lost the LC final
10/11 lost the PL after losing a 1-0 lead over Liverpool in injury time then a 3-1 lead over Sp**s a few days later. Otherwise, we'd have been 2 points off with just 5 games left and United still to play at home:
Untitled.jpg


To say that this group of players didn't have any close calls with winning trophies is laughable
05/06 lost CL final (Basically the Invincibles squad, no Nasri)
06/07 lost LC final (The league cup is suddenly a major title)
07/08 lost PL title by 4 points (And landed up third so we didn't just miss it we needed to better TWO TEAMS)
07/08 lost LC semi-final (See above)
08/09 lost FA Cup semi-final (A semi final, really. Reading have made a semi in the FA fairly recently)
08/09 lost CL semi-final (This was heart breaking. And they would have felt that)
09/10 lost the PL title despite being in the race come April: (Title winners don't bottle it like that and finish 11 points off the top.)
10/11 lost the LC final (I'll admit this hurt and we looked to be turning a corner)
10/11 lost the PL (We missed the title by 12 points...)

All of our supposed title races never felt as close as Pool are now or even were with Suarez... Apart from 07/08 which I feel we were really hard done by. We mock Sp**s for capitulating in many a season but that is exactly what that team of ours did year after year.. They may have had their heads turned. I can't deny that but it wasn't because we had a brilliant plan and were unlucky. We had bang average squads playing with those guys and a very good manager to mask the cracks.

Pool seem to have a very good squad with a very good manager.

Incidentally, Pool won the CL the year after we had that sh!t night in Paris. Look how long it took them to even get back to being anything.
Leicester winning the league did nothing for them to hold onto players.
 

A_G

Rice Rice Baby 🎼🎵
A-M CL Draft Campeón 🏆
08/09 lost FA Cup semi-final (A semi final, really. Reading have made a semi in the FA fairly recently)
You're ignoring the context of where we were at that point in time. If we had won the FA Cup that season, Fabregas probably wouldn't have flirted with Barcelona during the summer. That was also the same summer RVP delayed signing a new deal until August because he wanted assurances about the club's ability to compete, winning a trophy would've helped with that.
09/10 lost the PL title despite being in the race come April: (Title winners don't bottle it like that and finish 11 points off the top.)
Gallas, Vermaelen, Song, Fabregas and Arshavin all missed the run-in due to injuries, not to mention RVP had to be managed carefully since he just came back from a 5 month layoff himself so he couldn't start every game.
10/11 lost the PL (We missed the title by 12 points...)
It's not as simple as that. Without those two blown leads against Sp**s and Liverpool, our fate would've been in our hands. Win the last 5 and you win the league. That is a close call, no matter how much people downplay it.

And yes, winning the League Cup wold've made a difference in that period. It might not be a big trophy by itself but it would've ended the narrative of going nearly a decade without winning anything.
 

Mark Tobias

Mr. Agreeable
You're ignoring the context of where we were at that point in time. If we had won the FA Cup that season, Fabregas probably wouldn't have flirted with Barcelona during the summer. That was also the same summer RVP delayed signing a new deal until August because he wanted assurances about the club's ability to compete, winning a trophy would've helped with that.

Gallas, Vermaelen, Song, Fabregas and Arshavin all missed the run-in due to injuries, not to mention RVP had to be managed carefully since he just came back from a 5 month layoff himself so he couldn't start every game.

It's not as simple as that. Without those two blown leads against Sp**s and Liverpool, our fate would've been in our hands. Win the last 5 and you win the league. That is a close call, no matter how much people downplay it.

And yes, winning the League Cup wold've made a difference in that period. It might not be a big trophy by itself but it would've ended the narrative of going nearly a decade without winning anything.
The whole point of this discussion was to prove how Liverpool would be downgraded in status if coming 2nd. And that they would no longer attract top players.
We may have lost Nasri, RVP and Cesc after (let's not forget, years) of failure but we went on to buy Cazorla and Özil soon after that...
So I still don't buy into this notion that Liverpool missing out on the league will ruin them as a club.
It didn't ruin us. Not buying well and other factors around the club have set us back but not the fact that we didn't win a league cup in 2011 or a semi final of an FA a decade ago.

I agree it was devastating and I will agree we lost players through frustration but we didn't lose our status as a big club. We were still able to attract some players.
 

krackpot

Established Member
Trusted ⭐
A part of me wants Pool to win it for their commitment to attacking football.

The Brendan Rodgers team was more exciting than this one, mind.
 
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