Unai Emery: Adios

[Makingtrax]

In Klopp's first season you didn't have the top 4 stumbling to the finish line. Not a lot of points gets top 4 this season. I've hardly criticized here just said it how it is. You're asking me to 'come on' then clarify the below for me please.

• Do you honestly believe starting Elneny and Guendouzi was a good decision against Palace? That the manager didn't severely underestimate the opposition?
• His style, BECAUSE it is more reactive, will be open for more criticism. Particularly when he gets it wrong.

Explain what I have said here that is so wildly off the mark....

We had 4 games in 10 days coming to the end of the season with the lads running on empty. Xhaka and Ramsey injured. The man had to pick somebody ffs, he’s not a magician.

That’s when you need a good squad, all 25. There’s no hiding place. If you have weak squad members it’s game over for top 4 at the sharp end of the season if injuries strike.

The only way you can stop that is to spend more.

 

[GDeep™]

Top 4 has been on a plate and we’ve crumbled. It’s hardly a dog race for top 4, win a couple at this key stage and you’ve more or less guaranteed CL, but Emery and and the team have been exposed when it mattered most.

Few weeks ago we were calling the likes of Laca and Leno etc, world class, I said let’s wait to see how they do in these crucial games before we get carried away, and they’ve come up short.

 

[krackpot]

Lot of people hitting on Emery in his first season. Crazy stuff.

1. He can only work with what he’s got and we have holes in our squad compared to other teams going for top 4

2. Like Wenger, he’s suffered long term injuries to key players Welbeck, Bellerin, Holding. When the squad is thin these payers matter.

3. He’s not a style manager, he’s more reactive. He’s thoughtful and tries to work out a game plan for the opposition with his videos, notes and tactics. Different to Wenger, Pep, Klopp, who try to play more or less the same way and let the opposition adjust. It’s a different type of management but not necessarily wrong.

The bottom line is anything in top 6 is very good for the first season in the Prem and better than Klopp’s. People need to calm and the board need to back him with some decent cash this summer.

I think his style is pragmatism.

We went from completely ignoring defense under Wenger to tactless defending under Emery.

 

[squallman]

Come on mate, Klopp finished 8th in his first season.

Injuries to Mavropanos, Holding and Kos and short injuries and bans for Sokratis hasn’t given Emery much choice over Mustafi.

It’s easy to criticise but we don’t know what the medical staff have been telling him about red zone fitness and rotation.

My only criticism of Emery is that I can’t understand a thing he says in pressers, and I used to love Wenger’s as much as the game.

Is Klopp the only manager to ever take over a big club?

Why does everyone run to compare Emery to Klopp or Guardiola instead of the multitude of managers that have failed at big clubs?

Why is he like them and not like an AVB/Rodgers/Moyes/Van Gaal/Dalglish/Koeman/Martinez/Solari?

It is an empty defence to go "But Klopp....."

 

[Mark Tobias]

We had 4 games in 10 days coming to the end of the season with the lads running on empty. Xhaka and Ramsey injured. The man had to pick somebody ffs, he’s not a magician.

That’s when you need a good squad, all 25. There’s no hiding place. If you have weak squad members it’s game over for top 4 at the sharp end of the season if injuries strike.

The only way you can stop that is to spend more.

I take it the Palace and Wolves squads must cost a lot more than ours. Schlupp was a regular for Hodgson on the left yet when he didn't play we got caned down the right...
Watford's 10 men nearly thumped us too. what was the excuse that day.

I've been full of praise for Emery this season but he's made a few blunders at the business end of the season. He's admitted it too..

I'm not unhappy with the manager. I agree he doesn't have the tools to work with but he is not infallible. We're not having that on here again, please. This forum is for discussion.

 

[Tourbillion]

I thought we were going to at least see consistent pressing of the opposition, but now we are as flaccid as we were last season.

Disappointed with the guy.

 

[Makingtrax]

Is Klopp the only manager to ever take over a big club?

Why does everyone run to compare Emery to Klopp or Guardiola instead of the multitude of managers that have failed at big clubs?

Why is he like them and not like an AVB/Rodgers/Moyes/Van Gaal/Dalglish/Koeman/Martinez/Solari?

It is an empty defence to go "But Klopp....."

I don’t believe in the roulette wheel of manager changes. It gets you no where. Sp**s and Liverpool have had endless managers and won nothing.

They’re getting somewhere now, but it’s not been because of their coaches (although Klopp and Poch are good coaches), it’s because of their transfer dealings and the ability to find a squad without holes by buying and selling + youth integration.

Our problems that affected Wenger and now Emery are not coaching problems.

 

[A_G]

Funny thing about Klopp is that his team finally started to challenge for the league once he introduced pragmatism into their game. Liverpool are often dull to watch these days but get over the line due to their quality. Before when he played his 'heavy metal football' Liverpool would press every game and then run out of gas by the Spring, while the soft tissue injuries would pile up. Took him ages to realise that style isn't sustainable over a season in England.

 

[Jae]

Swap Mustafi with VVD and I reckon we'd be comfortably 2nd place in this league. I reckon Mustafi has cost us at least 5-6 games this year with his mistakes.

 

[squallman]

I don’t believe in the roulette wheel of manager changes. It gets you no where. Sp**s and Liverpool have had endless managers and won nothing.

They’re getting somewhere now, but it’s not been because of their coaches (although Klopp and Poch are good coaches), it’s because of their transfer dealings and the ability to find a squad without holes by buying and selling + youth integration.

Our problems that affected Wenger and now Emery are not coaching problems.

Then why bring up Klopp and his first season at all? The fact that Klopp finished 8th then and is competing for the title now has NOTHING to do with Emery or what the latter will achieve in the future.

If I was a mod I would ban any reference to Klopp or Guardiola or whoever in this thread.

Let Emery rise or fall on his own merits. Defend him with stuff he himself has done and achieved like a Europa semi-final in his first season.

We aren't Liverpool and we aren't Sp**s, our circumstances are different. We could also have the best set up in the world but if the coach isn't up to par then it is all for nought.

It is possible to have problems with transfers our set up and the coach as well. Emery isn't to blame for everything but he isn't blameless either.

No one excused Wenger for his failings. In fact he was blamed for every single thing at the club, now that he is gone and fans can see the same nonsense continuing, perhaps the realization will hit that Wenger wasn't the cause of all the club's woes (Not directed at you)

 

[Makingtrax]

Funny thing about Klopp is that his team finally started to challenge for the league once he introduced pragmatism into their game. Liverpool are often dull to watch these days but get over the line due to their quality. Before when he played his 'heavy metal football' Liverpool would press every game and then run out of gas by the Spring, while the soft tissue injuries would pile up. Took him ages to realise that style isn't sustainable over a season in England.

We’ll never agree on this emphasis of coach v squad.

Maybe Klopp has adapted, but what really changed Liverpool was a solid defence that would not leak goals when they attacked and got caught on the counter, VVD and Alisson making a huge impact. And not relying on injury ridden players like Sturridge, by buying Salah he got someone who was reliable and prolific. And having more options in midfield with Fabinho and Keita, even if the latter hasn’t turned out quite as well as hoped.

They have something now, we lacked for years . . a squad with no holes that has very capable supporting players.

 

[Makingtrax]

Then why bring up Klopp and his first season at all? The fact that Klopp finished 8th then and is competing for the title now has NOTHING to do with Emery or what the latter will achieve in the future.

If I was a mod I would ban any reference to Klopp or Guardiola or whoever in this thread.

Let Emery rise or fall on his own merits. Defend him with stuff he himself has done and achieved like a Europa semi-final in his first season.

We aren't Liverpool and we aren't Sp**s, our circumstances are different. We could also have the best set up in the world but if the coach isn't up to par then it is all for nought.

It is possible to have problems with transfers our set up and the coach as well. Emery isn't to blame for everything but he isn't blameless either.

No one excused Wenger for his failings. In fact he was blamed for every single thing at the club, now that he is gone and fans can see the same nonsense continuing, perhaps the realization will hit that Wenger wasn't the cause of all the club's woes (Not directed at you)

You’re logic is faultless, except for this. By pointing out that even some of the most successful managers didn’t do as well as Emery in their first season, is a way of highlighting the fact that it’s too early to judge him properly. QED.

 

[PoleInGoal]

Then why bring up Klopp and his first season at all? The fact that Klopp finished 8th then and is competing for the title now has NOTHING to do with Emery or what the latter will achieve in the future.

If I was a mod I would ban any reference to Klopp or Guardiola or whoever in this thread.

Let Emery rise or fall on his own merits. Defend him with stuff he himself has done and achieved like a Europa semi-final in his first season.

We aren't Liverpool and we aren't Sp**s, our circumstances are different. We could also have the best set up in the world but if the coach isn't up to par then it is all for nought.

It is possible to have problems with transfers our set up and the coach as well. Emery isn't to blame for everything but he isn't blameless either.

No one excused Wenger for his failings. In fact he was blamed for every single thing at the club, now that he is gone and fans can see the same nonsense continuing, perhaps the realization will hit that Wenger wasn't the cause of all the club's woes (Not directed at you)

The reason people compare to Klopp and Guardiola is that it took them a season or two to start achieving anything. There are parallels between Liverpool when Klopp took over and us now. Name one manager who has come to an unsettled team and immediately brought results, I can't think of any. Of course there have been other failures but the point is that instant success is unrealistic and even with the right manager it will take 2-3 years to see the results

 

[A_G]

We’ll never agree on this emphasis of coach v squad.

Maybe Klopp has adapted, but what really changed Liverpool was a solid defence that would not leak goals when they attacked and got caught on the counter, VVD and Alisson making a huge impact. And not relying on injury ridden players like Sturridge, by buying Salah he got someone who was reliable and prolific. And having more options in midfield with Fabinho and Keita, even if the latter hasn’t turned out quite as well as hoped.

They have something now, we lacked for years . . a squad with no holes that has very capable supporting players.

I mean mostly in terms of not pressing every game. Klopp does it in certain games, but he realised you can't play that way every week if you're in four different competitions. Getting £105m for Coutinho and other ridiculous fees for squad players helped too, hopefully Sanllehi can do a better job of selling players than Gazidis did. That's important regardless of whether Emery is the manager or they get someone else in.

 

[teamsoutheast]

Swap Mustafi with VVD and I reckon we'd be comfortably 2nd place in this league. I reckon Mustafi has cost us at least 5-6 games this year with his mistakes.

Lazy argument. Ask yourself why our defence are constantly left in 1v1 situations. No other teams seem to have this problem. Our defenders are not the problem as i'm sure if you put the likes of Koscielny, Mustafi and Sokratis in a Juventus or Bayern or Barcelona team they would not have this problem. Our midfield pressing and ball winning along with the team as a whole defenisively need to step up. Way too many players are coasting when we do not have the ball. No use pressing only against the likes of Tottehnham and Man U if you can't do it against Palace and Wolves.

 

[Makingtrax]

Lazy argument. Ask yourself why our defence are constantly left in 1v1 situations. No other teams seem to have this problem. Our defenders are not the problem as i'm sure if you put the likes of Koscielny, Mustafi and Sokratis in a Juventus or Bayern or Barcelona team they would not have this problem. Our midfield pressing and ball winning along with the team as a whole defenisively need to step up. Way too many players are coasting when we do not have the ball. No use pressing only against the likes of Tottehnham and Man U if you can't do it against Palace and Wolves.

One of the reasons we find our defence under pressure is, we give the ball away too often. Watching City yesterday, their players have such good control and very rarely give the ball to the opposition in dangerous areas. Mustafi might do it 3 or 4 times a game.

 

[Mark Tobias]

Name one manager who has come to an unsettled team and immediately brought results, I can't think of any.

Conte hasn't even been gone that long

 

[TriniGunner]

We had 4 games in 10 days coming to the end of the season with the lads running on empty. Xhaka and Ramsey injured. The man had to pick somebody ffs, he’s not a magician.

That’s when you need a good squad, all 25. There’s no hiding place. If you have weak squad members it’s game over for top 4 at the sharp end of the season if injuries strike.

The only way you can stop that is to spend more.

We can also trust in our younger players to make something happen. Letting Nelson go out on loan was a mistake, he should have been a part of this team and the club trusting this highly skillful youngster to get better as the season progresses. He's much better than maybe every winger at the club. We've done a piss poor job over the past 5 seasons bringing younger players into the squad simply because we've lacked the vision and patience as a club to trust in what we've been doing.

 

[TriniGunner]

Conte hasn't even been gone that long

Conte had an excellent team when he came. The issue was always with Mourinho.

 

[yybecause]

Top 4 has been on a plate and we’ve crumbled. It’s hardly a dog race for top 4, win a couple at this key stage and you’ve more or less guaranteed CL, but Emery and and the team have been exposed when it mattered most.

Few weeks ago we were calling the likes of Laca and Leno etc, world class, I said let’s wait to see how they do in these crucial games before we get carried away, and they’ve come up short.

I guess non of Man Utd and Chelsea players are top class either then?