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Youth got to be kidding?

GoonerJay24

Well-Known Member
Why not? United did it in the 90s and even us in 2007-2009 had success building the team around young players.

I think the key is having experienced players alongside the youngsters and not just a team of young players without a couple of older heads to guide them through matches.

The one advantage we'd have is the majority of U21s breaking through have all been coached Arsenal creative football alongside one another therefore playing cohesion between them should not be a big issue.
 

YeahBee

Terrible hot takes
Why not? United did it in the 90s and even us in 2007-2009 had success building the team around young players.

I think the key is having experienced players alongside the youngsters and not just a team of young players without a couple of older heads to guide them through matches.

The one advantage we'd have is the majority of U21s breaking through have all been coached Arsenal creative football alongside one another therefore playing cohesion between them should not be a big issue.

Even 2009 is another era nowadays

Ajax did well in CL but it was a fairytale

Athletic ability means more now

And that era 07-09 didnt amount to anything anyway

The arsenal way of ye olde needs athletic ability to, the invincibles werent a bunch of Cazorlas you know.

If we are brutally honest, if you found yourself in a dark alley with a bunch of russian hooligans Beating down on you, who in our team would you feel comfortable having alongside?

Kola and Xhaka basically
Sok (the other defenders and gks to just due to some size)

People on AM constantly underrate size, strength and speed.
The best thing about those attributes is that they are effecting the game even when the players are playing poorly

What made the invincibles great is that they had those attributes + technique

You cant do a shortcut and only have technique

Those attributes + great tactics can work thou
 

North5

Here since 2009. Unlike Cornavirus.

Country: England
Let's just face it, we've been duped. The move to the Emirates to propel us into "a powerhouse being able to compete financially with the world's biggest clubs". A couple of transfer Windows of some cash splashing in 15 years and now back to austerity. Run by a guy who just wants a good return on his investment whilst spending as little as possible.

We are destined for perpetual 5-7th place for a good while now.
 

truth_hurts

but Holding’s hair transplant was painless
Not sure i agree with this.

Mustafi and Xhaka could fall into that category. Signed at 23 and 24 from smaller teams. Both have failed massively.

The bulk of City and Liverpools signings have been from smaller Premier League teams though.
 

Jury

A-M's drunk uncle
Personally, I do not want to see Arsenal turn into a youth project as this isn't what we were promised after the move from Highbury to the Emirates. Even a blend between youth and experience needs to be balanced. We are not a feeder club like Dortmund or Ajax and we play in the world's most competitive league.

There was a reason why Jadon Sancho wasn't starting at Manchester City and it isn't ability. It is because for the level at which City wish to operate, they are not ready to give youth more than the odd game. This explains why Foden's appearances are sporadic (he'll make it at city by the way) and the sold Diaz, who now starts at an out of sorts Madrid. Even Ajax mix youth with experience - their academy is arguably the world's best and these are not your average teenagers. Plus, they are led by Daley Blind. This team has largely gone through the Ajax system, so it is no surprise that they look like they have complete chemistry on the pitch.

This is a question - are our youth teams even successful? I know they used to be in the Lupoli and Bendtner days, but I'm yet to be convinced on the level of our youngsters. An eye test make Smith-Rowe, Nelson and Nketiah about premier league ready in my eyes. Ghendouzi is definitely ready to play a squad role and has shown that this season. Maitland Niles the same.

Our weakness is the defence and personally I do not want to build our defence around an under 23 - we are too shaky!! Would I take a DeLigt? Yes but he is the exception rather than the rule. Konate looks good, but paired with Mustafi or Sokratis is surely not the environment to be tested in the worlds toughest league and I do not know the level of any of our youth cbs. I'd love to see young full backs come in though. There will be a theme here for positions away from the spine of a team. Bellerin I think is excellent and only needs an understudy. M-N has done his best, but it's unlikely that he would become a reliable alternative; we have tried with Debuchy and Lichtsteiner to have an experience alternative and for different reasons neither has worked. Ideally we need to bring in pacey, exciting, young full backs with ability in the final third. These do not have to be expensive. In an ideal world it would be Wan Bisaka and Gaya/Sessegnon - I'd happily buy two cheap, young, prospects n the full back position though.

Central midfield is not a play ground and I do not want to see us experiment here. Again Ajax is the exception rather than the rule. Ghendouzi is talented but can not control a game like DeJong or a young Cesc, nor should he be expected to. Strangely most of our best talent can occupy a midfield role in the three namely: Bielik, Ghendouzi, M-N, Willock, Smith-Rowe and Nelson. I DO NOT WANT TO EXPERIMENT IN THIS AREA! You can also add Iwobi to this mix possibly as he is only 23. Funnily enough I'd make Iwobi a starter next year as a CAM. Get his energy and love for the shirt in the engine room. We know his end product is lacking, so take him out of the attack. I think he's ready to step up. With the rest - you can't mess around in the spine of a team and we need experience, so I'd give Ghendouzi a similar profile to last year, maybe Maitland-Niles more minute, but we need to bring in experience and leadership. Your Willocks, Bieliks, Smith-Rowes need to be loaned in my opinion to European clubs or lower premier league clubs. Nelson is a forward.

Okay the forward line! This should be an area of excitement but it has been so bland at times this year. I'm ready to sacrifice Özil and Mkhi magic (their spells have expired) and promote youth here. Your Sancho', Mbappe, Dembele etc are special talents and we don't have special, but we do have exciting. Saka, Nelson, Martinelli, Nketiah all are pacey and direct and I love it. Striker is the one position where we have experience and class in abundance. I would like to see a youngster given a chance in the attacking positions. Infact both of Nelson and Nketiah being on the bench a lot. Yes we would need to replace Mkhi and Özil with somebody seasoned but I'm happy for one of their and Welbecks places to go to a youngster.

In essence to answer the questions:

would you be happy to see youth being given more of a chance next year? Yes but not in the spine of the team,

Where do you see our potential short and long-term stars amongst our academy? Iwobi needs a chance in CM, Ghendouzi is probably a year or 2 away but can start some games. These are short term solutions, who could potentially be long term answers. Long-term I have faith in Smith-Rowe, Nketiah and Nelson to be starters here.

Who within the current set of young player do you wish to see knocking on the first team door next year and why? Answered above.

And would you be happy to spend a year (or 2) building? Yes. Play youth in the fun positions and build a solid spine with whatever money we have.

Long post, but it's half-term and I've got time!
I’ll read this with a cup of tea later.
 

Monstar-Gunn4r

Established Member
I think we're overating the youth coming through a little bit. If theyre good enough theyll get good loan spells and we can bring them back and then put them in as starters as we should be doing with nelson.

By banking on them being good enough we risk crippling the club even worse. To bring through a team with a lot fo youth you need a lot of very experienced players with a lot of know how, people go on about utd and barca but those teams had a foundation of experienced players, even ajax this year had some fairly experienced players playing key positions.

You also risk destroying the players by getting them kicked all over the pitch ala Wilshere and Ramsey until theyre injured if theyre integral to the squad for us then what?

A lot of people think we've nothing to lose... I dont think they realize just how low it can go.
 

juice man

Can't make his mind up
We’ve chronically overrated our youth in the last decade. There’s some decent talent in there right now, maybe a few deserve to have a slightly bigger role next year, but definitely not something I’m banking on to get us back to competitive football. As for signing young players - incredibly hard to successfully execute this, especially on a budget. You can’t just cite the success stories, like Dortmund, and say we should do the same. If it were as easy as saying the words, everyone would do it.

We need to improve the squad NOW. I don’t care if they’re 18 or 30, frankly I don’t think it should really be much of a consideration, as it’s only 1 characteristic out of many we need to consider. More important is to buy players with a holistic approach, considering their ability to improve the squad, tactical flexibility, fit of character, and most importantly their cost (fee and wages). Yes, age is a part of that holistic approach, but it shouldn’t be a driving factor in our decision making IMO.
 

A_G

Rice Rice Baby 🎼🎵
A-M CL Draft Campeón 🏆
It will be interesting what happens in summer. You look at Nketiah, Willock, Smith-Rowe and Nelson who have been either on loan or training a lot with the first team and you ask if they are ready for maybe a bigger part next season!
You do wonder though if Nketiah, Willock and Nelson will make the pre-season tour since their seasons could extend into mid-June if their national teams do well in their tournaments. Would be a shame for them to miss out.
 

Country: Iceland
You do wonder though if Nketiah, Willock and Nelson will make the pre-season tour since their seasons could extend into mid-June if their national teams do well in their tournaments. Would be a shame for them to miss out.

Just hope a good tourno for them will count for at least something. Hopefully Emery will be watching!
 
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bingobob

A-M’s Resident Hunskelper
Trusted ⭐

Country: Scotland
The bulk of City and Liverpools signings have been from smaller Premier League teams though.
Some have some havent. Id love us to sign more players from within the league. Advocated it for years. We just dont do it. Or we buy kids like Chambers who take ages to bloom. A player oddly enough a lot of people are happy to see go. He had a great season won POTY and is versatile. Someone we should be retaining.
 

L3T5 PL4Y

Flair Accuser
I don't know if anyone came across it, but The Economist magazine wrote an article a couple of weeks ago about the top Premier League clubs. The premise was that the recently successful clubs(City, Sp**s, Liverpool) have favoured youth over the less successful clubs (Arsenal, United, Chelsea). They also identified that those three successful clubs weren't buying their players from 'elite' teams . It's a really strong argument and one I hope the management team can learn from. Forget about these high priced players from top teams. It's a mugs game.

We should promote the youth players who are good enough and supplement it with additions from the lesser teams where we need to
How can that be true? Man Utd and us have more youth players and have used more youth players compared to the rest of them. Liverpool have given chances to Arnold and Gomez but thats it. Rest they loan out or sell. You can say Tottenham have some homegrown players but most of the team is hardly young and pkayers bought. Thers negligible difference in their approach with youth.
 

Tir Na Nog

Changes Opinion Every 5 Minutes

Country: Ireland
I always wanted to witness a relegation dog fight. Let's be honest here even if our youngsters do have the ability how many of them have the right mentality to succeed. What did Mourinho say about young talents being like melons? You play the youngsters who are good enough and are READY for the first team, the ones who can adapt to the step up. There are plenty who'll look good at youth level but won't be able to make the step up. That's just the way it is. I don't think people fully grasp how big of a rarity it is to have a team with several players promoted form the youth team. United class of 92 and Barca under Pep are very very rare examples of it succeeding. Willock and AMN should be involved next season, maybe Nelson will come back and be given some chances.

Even Guendouzi who's a super talent I believe is still a way off at the moment, and I think we'd be very lucky to get someone either from our youth academy or brought in who's half the talent he is.
 

Rex Stone

Long live the fighters
Trusted ⭐

Country: Wales
Some have some havent. Id love us to sign more players from within the league. Advocated it for years. We just dont do it. Or we buy kids like Chambers who take ages to bloom. A player oddly enough a lot of people are happy to see go. He had a great season won POTY and is versatile. Someone we should be retaining.

I’d much rather give Chambers a chance than Dakonam for example.
 

Maybe

You're wrong, no?
We need to improve the squad NOW.
That approach will only bring in another Mustafi. Panic buys to please the fans who are desperate to see some new names.
What we need to do, or better to say what we needed to do last year, is to plan something stable for the next couple of years.
Even Real Madrid is investing money in teenagers these days, but Arsenal fans believe that we can finance rebuild with money and we will enjoy new fancy players next year. We can't, but what we can is to waste another year and bring in another 5 mediocre players on 100k+ contracts, that's what most people here want until they see devastating effect of it.

The rest of your post is better explanation of what we need to do, but I can't match the "NOW" moment with it.

If we bring 2 top players 50m each, fill other gaps with youth, that would be a massive win for us. The only thing is that we won't see results of that for another 2-3 years, but I'm willing to wait and enjoy the progress.
 

GoonerJay24

Well-Known Member
Even 2009 is another era nowadays

Ajax did well in CL but it was a fairytale

Athletic ability means more now

And that era 07-09 didnt amount to anything anyway

The arsenal way of ye olde needs athletic ability to, the invincibles werent a bunch of Cazorlas you know.

If we are brutally honest, if you found yourself in a dark alley with a bunch of russian hooligans Beating down on you, who in our team would you feel comfortable having alongside?

Kola and Xhaka basically
Sok (the other defenders and gks to just due to some size)

People on AM constantly underrate size, strength and speed.
The best thing about those attributes is that they are effecting the game even when the players are playing poorly

What made the invincibles great is that they had those attributes + technique

You cant do a shortcut and only have technique

Those attributes + great tactics can work thou

Look at City; winning back to back league titles with small skillful players.

Athleticism has always been essential and especially now in the modern game for effective pressing but I think the Arsenal way of playing football is something unique and requires technical ability with creative flair therefore we should be bringing through the players that possess these abilities from the youth and build a cohesive team.

The invincibles were probably the second greatest team of all time behind Peps Barcelona. We'll never see such a team again. They were magnificent in every position, quality and mentally tough players throughout the squad.
 

GoonerJay24

Well-Known Member
I always wanted to witness a relegation dog fight. Let's be honest here even if our youngsters do have the ability how many of them have the right mentality to succeed. What did Mourinho say about young talents being like melons? You play the youngsters who are good enough and are READY for the first team, the ones who can adapt to the step up. There are plenty who'll look good at youth level but won't be able to make the step up. That's just the way it is. I don't think people fully grasp how big of a rarity it is to have a team with several players promoted form the youth team. United class of 92 and Barca under Pep are very very rare examples of it succeeding. Willock and AMN should be involved next season, maybe Nelson will come back and be given some chances.

Even Guendouzi who's a super talent I believe is still a way off at the moment, and I think we'd be very lucky to get someone either from our youth academy or brought in who's half the talent he is.

Psychological aspect of the game is immensely underrated by most supporters.

So many players acquired the right technical and physical skills but lacked the mentality to reach their potential.

As I said on this thread yesterday, if we were to go down the route of promoting from the youth teams the key is to supplement youngsters with experienced players. People forget that United team in the 90s had players like Pallister, Peter Schmeichal, Andy Cole, Eric Cantina, Roy Keane and Irwin to guide the younger members.

Getting that balance is key and if Emery does that then I think we could be successful and even surprise people next season. The one thing our youth setup has in common with Barcelona and Ajax is the technical curriculum implemented. Academy players are attuned in the Arsenal way of playing football therefore cohesiveness wouldn't be a massive problem.
 

YeahBee

Terrible hot takes
Look at City; winning back to back league titles with small skillful players.

Athleticism has always been essential and especially now in the modern game for effective pressing but I think the Arsenal way of playing football is something unique and requires technical ability with creative flair therefore we should be bringing through the players that possess these abilities from the youth and build a cohesive team.

The invincibles were probably the second greatest team of all time behind Peps Barcelona. We'll never see such a team again. They were magnificent in every position, quality and mentally tough players throughout the squad.


Their small and skillful players are Runners thou, both in speed endurance and tenacity
Same with pool and to a degrees chelski

We are fooled when we see stats for Özil et al, we see their numbers and think they are doing more then they are, they just jog around floating about.
Modern game does not have a place for that
 

OSBK

Established Member

Frank and rio talk alot of sense when they talk about youth. Frank talks about the standards and they have dropped at arsenal.
 

GoonerJay24

Well-Known Member
Their small and skillful players are Runners thou, both in speed endurance and tenacity
Same with pool and to a degrees chelski

We are fooled when we see stats for Özil et al, we see their numbers and think they are doing more then they are, they just jog around floating about.
Modern game does not have a place for that

Then we need to bring through the players are equipped with speed, strength and endurance alongside technique. These attributes can be developed with the right training.
 

Wrighty4eva

Established Member
Been saying it for months now, I would rather watch our youth ESR, Nelson, Nketiah, saka, Ameachi, medley have a trial and error season than watch these group of spineless underperforming ****s wear the shirt for another year, want to see someone play with some hunger, desire for the badge and if Emery has any balls he will do just that, if not to hell with him.
 

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