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Mark Tobias

Mr. Agreeable
He was the manager, of course they will have him to agree before making decision on players contract.
What? Who told you that? In other threads you're banging on about not keeping up with modern football when in fact this statement insinuates you know nothing about modern football. Plenty clubs now work with directors of football and other such positions thereby allowing the manager to simply manage what he is given.
Almost everything transfer related in the final years of Wenger's tenure points to the fact that he had very little say in transfer matters.
 

Football Manager

Copy & Paste Merchant
What? Who told you that? In other threads you're banging on about not keeping up with modern football when in fact this statement insinuates you know nothing about modern football. Plenty clubs now work with directors of football and other such positions thereby allowing the manager to simply manage what he is given.
Almost everything transfer related in the final years of Wenger's tenure points to the fact that he had very little say in transfer matters.
My post was about modern tactics. Not how a club work. Sure there are DoF working on deals, but I don’t believe there are no communication between the manager and the DoF, or DoF forcing a manger without him agreeing. For a decision that involves that much amount of money, at least you would host a meeting to discuss about that.
 

Mark Tobias

Mr. Agreeable
My post was about modern tactics. Not how a club work. Sure there are DoF working on deals, but I don’t believe there are no communication between the manager and the DoF, or DoF forcing a manger without him agreeing. For a decision that involves that much amount of money, at least you would host a meeting to discuss about that.
Yes, that may be, but it is clear the decision was not solely that of Wenger's in his final years. That much is clear. To suggest otherwise is wrong but I guess it suits the narrative.
 

Makingtrax

Worships in the house of Wenger 🙏
Trusted ⭐

Country: England

Player:Saliba
As if you are working at Arsenal, typing out contracts for the players to sign.
Don’t pretend wenger didn’t know anything about that. If it was Gazidis decision, at least he will have to get wenger to agree on that.
It’s all part of the narrative to pretend that Arsène was Gazidis’ boss, instead of the other way around in reality.
 

Makingtrax

Worships in the house of Wenger 🙏
Trusted ⭐

Country: England

Player:Saliba
Big fan of wenger before 2012, we played some great football and other teams tactics wasn’t that complex in that era.
Shame he decided to trust Giroud and the British core, play boring football and not keeping up with modern tactics.
Your obsession with modern tactics is erroneous. The high press was invented by Thomas Gorman in 1934. Every conceivable formation, every type of press, low, midfield and high has been tried before.

The high energy, high press is **** in football if you have poor players, which is why most of the teams in the bottom half of the league drop back into a low press and try to use the long ball to exploit the space in the opposition half.

The only thing that makes the high press so effective today is for rich teams to have high quality players in every position. Pep had this luxury at Barcelona, Bayern and City. Any weakness he swaps out the player with a more expensive one that can do the job.

Klopp’s Gengen pressing was ineffective for 3 years until he sold Coutinho and got a £156m boost in one window to fill the gaps. Then it clicked.

To be consistent at the top of the Prem you need money, pure and simple. Wenger never had a squad above 5th in terms of spend. Yes some great players, but never enough. And a couple of poor buys like Mustafi will set you back quickly. His quick passing Wengerball tactics though was a thing of beauty and got us top four for 2o years with a low spend, better than Klopp or Guardiola could ever achieve.
 
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Mark Tobias

Mr. Agreeable
Your obsession with modern tactics is erroneous. The high press was invented by Thomas Gorman in 1934. Every conceivable formation, every type of press, low, midfield and high has been tried before.

The high energy, high press is **** in football if you have poor players, which is why most of the teams in the bottom half of the league drop back into a low press and try to use the long ball to exploit the space in the opposition half.

The only thing that makes the high press so effective today is for rich teams to have high quality players in every position. Pep had this luxury at Barcelona, Bayern and City. Any weakness he swaps out the player with a more expensive one that can do the job.

Klopp’s Gengen pressing was ineffective for 3 years until he sold Coutinho and got a £156m boost in one window to fill the gaps. Then it clicked.

To be consistent at the top of the Prem you need money, pure and simple. Wenger never had a squad above 5th in terms of spend. Yes some great players, but never enough. And a couple of poor buys like Mustafi will set you back quickly. His quick passing Wengerball tactics though was a thing of beauty and got us top four for 2o years with a low spend, better than Klopp or Guardiola could ever achieve.
Barack_Obama_Mic_Drop_2016.jpg
 

Makingtrax

Worships in the house of Wenger 🙏
Trusted ⭐

Country: England

Player:Saliba
My post was about modern tactics. Not how a club work. Sure there are DoF working on deals, but I don’t believe there are no communication between the manager and the DoF, or DoF forcing a manger without him agreeing. For a decision that involves that much amount of money, at least you would host a meeting to discuss about that.
And here’s Rinus Michels’ legendary Dutch side in 1974, never gave their opponents time to properly build from the rear. Their high pressing game was legendary. Some people called it total football because not only would they press right up but also interchange positions.

Michels himself wrote: “To play the game to its full extent you need the world’s best players. Lesser teams will be hit on the break and this could lead to disaster.”

There’s nothing new in football, except a fountain of money.

giphy.gif
 

Football Manager

Copy & Paste Merchant
And here’s Rinus Michels’ legendary Dutch side in 1974, never gave their opponents time to properly build from the rear. Their high pressing game was legendary. Some people called it total football because not only would they press right up but also interchange positions.

Michels himself wrote: “To play the game to its full extent you need the world’s best players. Lesser teams will be hit on the break and this could lead to disaster.”

There’s nothing new in football, except a fountain of money.

giphy.gif
Idea might be similar, but modern tactics are much more developed and the execution are more precise.

 
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Mark Tobias

Mr. Agreeable
Idea might be similar, but modern tactics are much more developed and the execution are more precise.
Yes, and why is that... because MONEY has attracted the best players in the world where in previous decades they were much less likely to take up the sport professionally because it wasn't lucrative. This really isn't rocket science. Virtually VERY sport on earth which has seen an influx of money has progressed in a similar fashion.
 

Toby

No longer a Stuttgart Fan
Moderator
And here’s Rinus Michels’ legendary Dutch side in 1974, never gave their opponents time to properly build from the rear. Their high pressing game was legendary. Some people called it total football because not only would they press right up but also interchange positions.

Michels himself wrote: “To play the game to its full extent you need the world’s best players. Lesser teams will be hit on the break and this could lead to disaster.”

There’s nothing new in football, except a fountain of money.

giphy.gif

Needed post. Hate it when people style themselves as understanding tactics but then paint contemporary managers as inventors of the wheel. They're currently all copying and putting different pieces of inspiration together and profit massively from the increased professionalisation and athleticism in modern football. Guardiola's tiki-taka mainly isn't what it is due to him being such a freaking genius, it's mainly only possible because footballers nowadays are basically thoroughbred race horses worth myriads of millions who are physically able to run faster, longer and cover more ground than they could 10, 20, 30 or 50 years ago.

I wasn't alive in 1974 either, but when you go about banging on how you understand so much about football tactics, you better know about Michels, Sacchi, Herrera, Menotti, Lobanovsky, Happel, etc. Guardiola at City especially is basically emulating a system from the 30s Italian National Team - he's constantly knicking vintage tactics from especially Italy and South America, including his famous "invention" of the false 9 from 40s Argentina.
 
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Mark Tobias

Mr. Agreeable
Guardiola at City especially is basically emulating a system from the 30s Italian Nation Team - he's constantly knicking vintage tactics from Italy, South America, etc., including his famous "invention" of the false 9 from 40s Argentina.
Exactly. Systems which, with the players they had at the time, were not working but are now very much possible given a billion pounds to build a squad.
 

Toby

No longer a Stuttgart Fan
Moderator
Exactly. Systems which, with the players they had at the time, were not working but are now very much possible given a billion pounds to build a squad.

They were working back then, too. Some of these teams with those tactics have gone down as some of the best ever and were very, very successfull and have stamped ideas and paragons onto the world on how football should be played.

What makes older football, similar to current Women's football, look less distinct and less precise or developed as that muppet Football Manager called it, is just the athleticism - that's the one and only difference. And that is only possible due to the absolute professionalisation of the sport due to the money that's in it. Contemporary male footballers are streamlined, groomed, fed and paid myriads to be nothing but footballers 24/7 and that has raised the athleticism thus raising the physical intensity, the speed, the distances covered etc. in turn making modern football look more evolved or pronounced. But it's really not. Footballers are just physically more fit now than they have ever been. There hasn't really been a big tactical revolution in ages.
 

Mark Tobias

Mr. Agreeable
They were working back then, too. Some of these teams with those tactics have gone down as some of the best ever and were very, very successfull and have stamped ideas and paragons onto the world on how football should be played.

What makes older football, similar to current Women's football, look less distinct and less precise or developed as that muppet Football Manager called it, is just the athleticism - that's the one and only difference. And that is only possible due to the absolute professionalisation of the sport due to the money that's in it. Contemporary male footballers are streamlined, groomed, fed and paid myriads to be nothing but footballers 24/7 and that has raised the athleticism thus raising the physical intensity, the speed, the distances covered etc. in turn making modern football look more evolved or pronounced. But it's really not. Footballers are just physically more fit now than they have ever been. There hasn't really been a big tactical revolution in ages.
If you aren't going to take up the Technical Director position can you at least consider running for president in my country?
 

Makingtrax

Worships in the house of Wenger 🙏
Trusted ⭐

Country: England

Player:Saliba
Needed post. Hate it when people style themselves as understanding tactics but then paint contemporary managers as inventors of the wheel. They're currently all copying and putting different pieces of inspiration together and profit massively from the increased professionalisation and athleticism in modern football. Guardiola's tiki-taka mainly isn't what it is due to him being such a freaking genius, it's mainly only possible because footballers nowadays are basically thoroughbred race horses worth myriads of millions who are physically able to run faster, longer and cover more ground than they could 10, 20, 30 or 50 years ago.

I wasn't alive in 1974 either, but when you go about banging on how you understand so much about football tactics, you better know about Michels, Sacchi, Herrera, Menotti, Lobanovsky, Happel, etc. Guardiola at City especially is basically emulating a system from the 30s Italian National Team - he's constantly knicking vintage tactics from especially Italy and South America, including his famous "invention" of the false 9 from 40s Argentina.
Every so often on AM there’s a perfect post.

But don’t forget the romantic, and apocryphal, tale of the 1947 Salernitana manager Gipo Viani inventing the sweeper system after he said that he’d observed local fisherman using a 'reserve net' when hauling the morning catch ashore, to (literally) catch any fish which slipped through the net. Lovely stuff. :lol:
 

Football Manager

Copy & Paste Merchant
They were working back then, too. Some of these teams with those tactics have gone down as some of the best ever and were very, very successfull and have stamped ideas and paragons onto the world on how football should be played.

What makes older football, similar to current Women's football, look less distinct and less precise or developed as that muppet Football Manager called it, is just the athleticism - that's the one and only difference. And that is only possible due to the absolute professionalisation of the sport due to the money that's in it. Contemporary male footballers are streamlined, groomed, fed and paid myriads to be nothing but footballers 24/7 and that has raised the athleticism thus raising the physical intensity, the speed, the distances covered etc. in turn making modern football look more evolved or pronounced. But it's really not. Footballers are just physically more fit now than they have ever been. There hasn't really been a big tactical revolution in ages.
Do people these day literally think gerrard+lampard+rooney is better than xavi+busquets+iniesta?
 
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