Mesut Özil: 2019/20 Performances

[Eaststander74]

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They definitely would’ve cared if he’d been sold 3 years into his arsenal career like cesc was (for being a flop in his case). Imagine if we sold Özil immediately after his 15/16 season

Well of course we'd have cared had he been sold after a great season... What I said was nobody would have cared had he disappeared at the end of last season. Bar a few loonies, that's a fact. That was the general feeling and it was understandable. Again, I'm getting dragged into a silly argument here, but there wasn't one point in Cesc's Arsenal career where nobody would have cared. Another fact.

 

[Eaststander74]

Warranted imo, you can't be buying reduced tho, poor c*nt. What sides you get?

Pineapple chunk and a Cawston press can drink (rhubarb and apple)

 

[Eaststander74]

At least if WW3 does happen now him and the cockroaches can enjoy each others company in the fallout.

No Emery to blame now. No Giroud to blame now. No lack of wingers/pace up front to blame now. He's just well past his best, that's all there is to it. We need to move on.

 

[musoke]

Folks can’t admit that Emery was at the root of Özil’s struggles because they’re too weak to say they were wrong

Emery was a fraud. If you backed him over Özil you were wrong

If you think Özil could have succeeded and lifted the team if he “cared” or wasn’t lazy you were wrong

If you said he was finished you were wrong

If you said he was useless and his role was extinct in the modern game you were wrong

If you said Ceballos or Willock or Torreira or Laca or Smith-Rowe would be better at #10 you were wrong

Özil like, many other players, were set up for failure by a fraud

All of the criticism disguised as praise is pathetic

Özil was and remains a unique world class talent with a passion for football and is a proven champion

Emery wasted that for 18 months

But you were wrong. Özil is far from finished

I just don't accept that Emery was the reason Özil had been bad / inconsistent. Emery did not help matters or improve our already inconsistent players I have to agree with that. Self motivation and attidute application has always been his biggest problem.

Remember, he fell off in December 2017. Never recovered till now. He went to the world cup and he was poor as well. Remember the criticism he got for his poor performances in the World Cup for Germany mixed in with his burgeoning friendship with Erdogan?
That was well before Emery had even met him personally as manager.. To me Özil has always been talented but too inconsistent. He has been criticised for the same thing going back as far as in his second season here at Arsenal.

Emery was a poor fit for us and it seems like the players did not have that bond and respect for him. He was a poor choice and the players took advantage.

But to say that he was the root cause of Özil's inconstencies is a bit extreme.

If he was playing well in Wenger's last season. If he performed well for Joachim Low 2018 world cup, etc then all of a sudden it all nose dived under Emery then I would not argue with it. But he was already performing poorly since December 2017 throughtout and the world cup. Did not improve Emery or under Ljumberg.

I am just glad that Özil and the whole squad are more motivated under Arteta. Can't ask for more.

I am so bouyed and optimistic right now.
Smiles all around.. :Celebration:

 

[irishgunnerz]

This thread is a disgrace.

That's probably the most accurate statement of the last five or six pages.

At the risk of stating the obvious.

- keep posts on topic.
- it's fine to have an opinion, it's also fine for someone to disagree with it if in a broadly constructive manner.
- it's not fine however to whine, ***** and moan at someone who happens to disagree with you while making it personal.
- the ignore button really isn't that hard to find

It's not rocket science but for some reason this thread continually goes off the rails for the most ridiculous of reasons.

 

[GDeep™]

Terrible stuff.

 

[Trilly]

Seems like it's @Eaststander74 vs the world tonight. Every thread he's there.

He loves it though. Lives for it.

 

[bandaid]

this is why Wenger gave Özil the big new contract. He had to carry the torch, keep the flame alive, though the troll infested badlands of mordor... and now hands it over to the chosen one - Arteta.

They tried to humiliate him, ostracize him, mock him, harm him, attack him, exile him, break him and destroy his reputation and professional image. He saw them off. The jury is out. The genius still stands on the centre circle, in the green grass of the emirates. This is his home, and here he made a stand and at times stood alone against the storm.

Arteta has come, Özil is now a man unburdened and the results are there on the pitch. No one is talking rot about him being dropped for being ill, for not training well, for not being tactically suitable or for not being good enough. Its a shame that some gooners descended to those levels.

Its a simple game people. Genius will out. Its right there on the field, how can you spin that.

peace and harmony has returned to the land.

victory through harmony.

hold the values close people. be eternally vigilant.

 

[Fewtch]

Well of course we'd have cared had he been sold after a great season... What I said was nobody would have cared had he disappeared at the end of last season. Bar a few loonies, that's a fact. That was the general feeling and it was understandable. Again, I'm getting dragged into a silly argument here, but there wasn't one point in Cesc's Arsenal career where nobody would have cared. Another fact.

Well that’s obviously because Cesc was only here before and during his prime...
You say that we’d obviously care if we sold Özil after a great season but then point out that no one wanted Fàbregas out before and during his prime like its some accomplishment lol.

Yh it’s getting silly, just wanted to point out with my initial post that calling him a flop isn’t as outrageous as you may think. The prodigal son finally comes back after years of begging from the Barca fans just for him to get booted out by the same fans after just 3 years. They got rid of him at 27 even though they had a 34 year old Xavi to replace at the time as well. Massive flop

 

[Garrincha]

Now his deal is coming up to 12 months remaining again will he want a move?

Going to be easier to get a 2-3 year contract somewhere at 31/32 rather than 32/33.

 

[Oxeki]

Well that’s obviously because Cesc was only here before and during his prime...
You say that we’d obviously care if we sold Özil after a great season but then point out that no one wanted Fàbregas out before and during his prime like its some accomplishment lol.

Yh it’s getting silly, just wanted to point out with my initial post that calling him a flop isn’t as outrageous as you may think. The prodigal son finally comes back after years of begging from the Barca fans just for him to get booted out by the same fans after just 3 years. They got rid of him at 27 even though they had a 34 year old Xavi to replace at the time as well. Massive flop

He was not a flop.

He was played out position half the time there.
The revisionism is getting ridiculous. Since Özil's resurgence, some of you in your giddiness have started to devalue cesc's time here. It's pathetic. In 2011/2012, he was was played out of position. In 2012/2013, He was one of the highest scorers in the team. Despite the fact that the team was without a manager for 80% of the season. In 2013/2014, The whole team was woeful. I guess Sanchez was a massive flop too?

We're all happy Özil is playing well for us. Infact, I'm more happy than most. But can't we just be happy that Özil is playing well rather than sh*tting on cesc

 

[Fewtch]

He was not a flop.

He was played out position half the time there.
The revisionism is getting ridiculous. Since Özil's resurgence, some of you in your giddiness have started to devalue cesc's time here. It's pathetic. In 2011/2012, he was was played out of position. In 2012/2013, He was one of the highest scorers in the team. Despite the fact that the team was without a manager for 80% of the season. In 2013/2014, The whole team was woeful. I guess Sanchez was a massive flop too?

We're all happy Özil is playing well for us. Infact, I'm more happy than most. But can't we just be happy that Özil is playing well rather than sh*tting on cesc

How is that revisionism when any Barca fan would agree with what I’m saying? They literally chased him out of there. I’m not devaluing or ****ting on anyone. It’s a fact that he flopped, pointing that out doesn’t mean I’m doing revisionism.

This has nothing to do with Özil’s “resurgence” as well lol. I would’ve told you the exact same thing 3 months ago.

 

[Oxeki]

How is that revisionism when any Barca fan would agree with what I’m saying? They literally chased him out of there. I’m not devaluing or ****ting on anyone. It’s a fact that he flopped, pointing that out doesn’t mean I’m doing revisionism.

This has nothing to do with Özil’s “resurgence” as well lol. I would’ve told you the exact same thing 3 months ago.

Well Barca fans and even Madrid fans are spoilt brats.

I can tell you that the duration of cesc's stay in Barca, xavi was not better. That's a fact.

During Pep's last season, he was mostly playing cesc as a false 9. When he didn't perform there, they started to boo him during games.

When he came back to the prem, he was immediately the best midfielder in EPL during Chelsea's 14/15 title winning season.

 

[Trilly]

When he didn't perform there, they started to boo him during games.

He didn't perform ergo he flopped.

He was played out of position because he couldn't play in his preferred position? Why? Because he wasn't good enough to displace those who did play in his position.

You're trying very hard to say Cesc didn't flop at Barca when every single piece of evidence shows that he did.

 

[Eaststander74]

You're trying very hard to say Cesc didn't flop at Barca when every single piece of evidence shows that he did.

What, even the little meaningless piece of evidence that says 28 goals and 37 assists in just 96 appearances for the club ?

He scored and created 65 goals in the 96 appearances he made.... I wont even bother mentioning the trophies he won there, because it's a team game.

Now, for whatever reason (it's Spain, he was thrown in among three of the clubs greatest midfielders in it's history, bar none) it's supposed to have gone pear shaped with the fans, even though the president did not want to sell him. And you, and a couple other loons, think every piece of evidence shows he was a flop? By what standards, because we're in the Özil thread, and it might get a bit uncomfortable...

I thought you binned the pipe G?

 

[DJ_Markstar]

What, even the little meaningless piece of evidence that says 28 goals and 37 assists in just 96 appearances for the club ?

He scored and created 65 goals in the 96 appearances he made.... I wont even bother mentioning the trophies he won there, because it's a team game.

Now, for whatever reason (it's Spain, he was thrown in among three of the clubs greatest midfielders in it's history, bar none) it's supposed to have gone pear shaped with the fans, even though the president did not want to sell him. And you, and a couple other loons, think every piece of evidence shows he was a flop? By what standards, because we're in the Özil thread, and it might get a bit uncomfortable...

I thought you binned the pipe G?

Yeah honestly calling him a flop is pants on head *.

He out statted virtually everyone bar Messi and his versatility is somehow being used as a stick to beat him with.

What they really would have been better off doing is keeping Cesc until the inevitable retirement of Xavi and then slightly adjusting the midfield roles, since Cesc is better than Xavi in creative aspects but Xavi is obviously the better possession midfielder and was more used to the system.

I think a Cesc/Rakitic midfield 2 ahead of Busquets could have been godly.

 

[Trilly]

What, even the little meaningless piece of evidence that says 28 goals and 37 assists in just 96 appearances for the club ?

He scored and created 65 goals in the 96 appearances he made.... I wont even bother mentioning the trophies he won there, because it's a team game.

Now, for whatever reason (it's Spain, he was thrown in among three of the clubs greatest midfielders in it's history, bar none) it's supposed to have gone pear shaped with the fans, even though the president did not want to sell him. And you, and a couple other loons, think every piece of evidence shows he was a flop? By what standards, because we're in the Özil thread, and it might get a bit uncomfortable...

I thought you binned the pipe G?

Oh I remember him ripping it up, I used to bang out fifa ultimate team and he was getting special cards for fun. Played for a truly, dominant team though, perhaps the most dominant we’ve ever seen so those numbers while impressive are countered with the below.

At the end of the day, he never nailed down a position, didn’t displace any of the guys he was meant to succeed and was sold.
The fans were glad to see him go and remember your post a few days ago about Arsenal fans not minding if Özil had gone? Just reminding you in case you try to diminish the importance of fan opinion.

Cesc is almost unanimously seen as a flop by the Barca fans and that can’t be ignored.

 

[DJ_Markstar]

If we're just going on stats...(according to Transfermarkt)

For Barcelona:

Cesc - Games: 151 Goals: 42 Assists: 51
Iniesta - Games: 674 Goals: 57 Assists: 140
Xavi - Games: 769 Goals: 85 Assists: 184

Obviously stats aren't everything, but I posted this up because of the idea that his impressive stats are only due to being in a successful team was mooted. This doesn't seem to have made an impact on Iniesta or Xavi's stats. His goal or assists per game is sitting at an output of 0.62 per game, vs 0.29 for Iniesta and 0.35 for Xavi.

In fact, his output of 0.62 per game is just shy of the combined output of Xavi AND Iniesta per game, which sits at 0.64

Of course these are career stats and there needs to be more in-depth analysis etc. but I think the stats quite clearly show that he was not a flop and performed to an exceptional level for his role, which as a creative goalscoring midfielder means he should score and assist as his primary roles - he did that to an elite level here and at Barca.

You could argue he didn't fit their system, and that's a different argument, but I just can't get behind the idea he flopped.

 

[Eaststander74]

Cesc is almost unanimously seen as a flop by the Barca fans and that can’t be ignored.

'The fans' said ... Players fall out of favour with fans for all sorts of reasons, it doesn't render their time there as a 'flop'. He got booed once as a sub and a vote by Marca had 50% wanting him sold... So we're left his on field stats...

More Gooners wanted Özil gone ffs, does that render him a flop irrespective of his stats? If anyone is going to ignore what the player contributed and determine whether a player flopped or not, it's the club.

Come on lad, your goose is cooked. It's simply horseshit.

 

[Vantastico]

He played like a senior skiller in a pickup match yesterday. His single remarkable contribution was when he made a correct pass during a counter-attack, and he tried a couple of flicks and chip-passes that didn't any yield positive outcomes, whatsoever.

Those are all of the things he did on the ball. When he didn't have it he didn't drop back to help our defense out at all in the first half, like the BBC showed during halftime.

Obviously Holdini and David Luiz looked clueless out there at times, but every single player except Sokratis was being pressed and a long ball to a man-marked Özil or Lacazette is never a good option anyways.

His "press" of the ball is also often times half-hearted and easy to bypass. It's a symbol for his contributions to the team, which is close to nought. Xhaka played better than him yesterday. Much better. Xhaka.

Both bring very little to the team anyways. Sell them and bring in actual midfielders, or play the youth, idc anymore. Can't do that now obviously since you wouldn't get 10m for them in the summer then. But I don't want to see either in the team next year.

(BTW the Lacazette/Firmino discussion in the other thread made me tear up a bit because Firmino would be our best player by a mile. Whether at striker or at #10. We'd be talking about how he's better than De Bruyne and the best Brazilian player after Martinelli)