Mesut Özil: 2019/20 Performances

[hydrofluoric acid]

Fabregas at Barcelona was a bit like Arshavin at Arsenal: he had the numbers, but there was something missing. He never really established himself in the team, and after the huge song & dance they made about signing him it doesn't reflect well that he was hounded out. It might seem harsh to call him a flop but when you sign a player of that calibre the expectations are high. He didn't live up to them.

Honestly don't think it was right call from Barca to sell him. Nobody gonna tell me he wouldn't have good few years for them if he stayed there. It is hard to call him flop IMO. Overall it was decent return from him for the club and they won trophies.

Don't know what the debate really is. I think we have been lucky to have both Fabregas and Özil. Great players!

 

[Eaststander74]

Fabregas at Barcelona was a bit like Arshavin at Arsenal: he had the numbers, but there was something missing. He never really established himself in the team, and after the huge song & dance they made about signing him it doesn't reflect well that he was hounded out. It might seem harsh to call him a flop but when you sign a player of that calibre the expectations are high. He didn't live up to them.

They had specific plans for him that didn't work out. He wasn't your average big money signing that didn't produce, 'flop'. The word doesn't fit any way shape of form. He didn't even cost anything. Pound for pound, he was phenomenal value by any standards. 'Flop' isn't harsh, it's clueless.

When we don't renew Ozils contract will he be deemed a flop? Won 3 FA cups with him but fell out the top 4... His stats went down the toilet for the last 2 seasons, the majority want him sold, and look where we are now... and all from a player we pinned our hopes on; he wasn't joining the harlem globe trotters when we signed him.

 

[A_G]

They had specific plans for him that didn't work out. He wasn't your average big money sighing that didn't produce, 'flop'. The word doesn't fit any way shape of form. He didn't even cost anything. Pound for pound, he was phenomenal value by any standards. 'Flop' isn't harsh, it's clueless.

When we don't renew Ozils contract will he be deemed a flop?

Özil is not a flop because he played at a high level for a long time, just didn't have enough players on his wavelength to make it count. Really needed that top CF in the 2013-2016 period to take advantage of the Per/Kos partnership and Caz/Özil/Alexis in attack. But on an individual level Özil has definitely delivered, 3 FA Cups and a couple of near misses in other competitions is decent going for a guy who cost less than Gylfi Sigurdsson. Imagine if Wenger had got Aubameyang in 2013 when he was linked, we'd probably be sitting here talking about Özil being the difference maker with a couple of league titles in that period under his belt. His legacy would be totally different.

BTW the general consensus is that Alexis flopped at Barcelona as well, but that doesn't mean him or Cesc are bad players. They just didn't fit. You could say that about any number of big players who didn't prosper at the big 2 in Spain, but still went on to have great careers elsewhere.

 

[Rex Stone]

They had specific plans for him that didn't work out. He wasn't your average big money signing that didn't produce, 'flop'. The word doesn't fit any way shape of form. He didn't even cost anything. Pound for pound, he was phenomenal value by any standards. 'Flop' isn't harsh, it's clueless.

When we don't renew Ozils contract will he be deemed a flop? Won 3 FA cups with him but fell out the top 4... His stats went down the toilet for the last 2 seasons, the majority want him sold... and all from a player we pinned our hopes on; he wasn't joining the harlem globe trotters when we signed him.

Think Fabregas and Alexis were good but not quite good enough for Barcelona’s level. It’s no coincidence that they won the CL immediately when they upgraded to Rakitic and Neymar after selling them both.

Lot of people at the time said Cesc’s game was too anglicised and couldn’t run the midfield in the same controlled way as Busquets, Xavi, Iniesta and ultimately Rakitic could. He was all about breaking lines and playing that final killer pass, it’s why his career has taken a bit of a nosedive once his legs went.

He hasn’t got the skills to play a deeper role.

 

[Eaststander74]

Özil is not a flop because he played at a high level for a long time, just didn't have enough players on his wavelength to make it count. Really needed that top CF in the 2013-2016 period to take advantage of the Per/Kos partnership and Caz/Özil/Alexis in attack. But on an individual level Özil has definitely delivered, 3 FA Cups and a couple of near misses in other competitions is decent going for a guy who cost less than Gylfi Sigurdsson. Imagine if Wenger had got Aubameyang in 2013 when he was linked, we'd probably be sitting here talking about Özil being the difference maker with a couple of league titles in that period under his belt. His legacy would be totally different.

BTW the general consensus is that Alexis flopped at Barcelona as well, but that doesn't mean him or Cesc are bad players. They just didn't fit. You could say that about any number of big players who didn't prosper at the big 2 in Spain, but still went on to have great careers elsewhere.

What so he conveniently went off the edge of a cliff when we got the necessary players to play around him, or that wasn't really the cause? His best season ever came thanks to Giroud.

Gylfi is no barometer-- he was sold long after Özil signed and after prices rocketed.

 

[Eaststander74]

Think Fabregas and Alexis were good but not quite good enough for Barcelona’s level. It’s no coincidence that they won the CL immediately when they upgraded to Rakitic and Neymar after selling them both.

Not unlike Madrid winning 3 CL's immediately after Özil left then. You read the excuses being wheeled out for him not being a flop at Arsenal, on the basis that Cesc was at Barca, and it's genuinely hilarious.

 

[Rex Stone]

Not unlike Madrid winning 3 CL's immediately after Özil left then. You read the excuses being wheeled out for him not being a flop at Arsenal, on the basis that Cesc was at Barca, and it's genuinely hilarious.

I mean towards the end it was clear that Özil clearly wouldn’t fit Ancelotti’s style but his Real Madrid years were probably more successful than Cesc’s at Barca. He was a fag paper away from making the CL final in back to back years and was huge in their 11/12 title win.

With us it’s difficult because like you say we didn’t achieve what we hoped we would when we signed him. How much of that failure is down to him though? For me the blame lies with the transfer team for sh*tting the bed in back to back summers.

Özil himself played well, before KDB beat it he was the fastest to 50 assists and was up there for player of the year with Kante, Mahrez and Vardy in 2016.

With Cesc he had the numbers but it was clear he was a square peg in a round hole and wasn’t quite good enough to play with those other Barca midfielders.

 

[A_G]

What so he conveniently went off the edge of a cliff when we got the necessary players to play around him, or that wasn't really the cause? His best season ever came thanks to Giroud.

No, it wasn't just down to him though. As I said, 2016 was when the Per/Kos partnership ended. Before that we could've had Cech/Bellerin/Koscielny/Mertesacker/Monreal as a back 5, with Cazorla/Alexis/Özil further up the pitch. That was the time to go big on a CF, not a year or two later when the team had begun to disintegrate.

 

[celestis]

Özil is not a flop because he played at a high level for a long time, just didn't have enough players on his wavelength to make it count. Really needed that top CF in the 2013-2016 period to take advantage of the Per/Kos partnership and Caz/Özil/Alexis in attack. But on an individual level Özil has definitely delivered, 3 FA Cups and a couple of near misses in other competitions is decent going for a guy who cost less than Gylfi Sigurdsson. Imagine if Wenger had got Aubameyang in 2013 when he was linked, we'd probably be sitting here talking about Özil being the difference maker with a couple of league titles in that period under his belt. His legacy would be totally different.

BTW the general consensus is that Alexis flopped at Barcelona as well, but that doesn't mean him or Cesc are bad players. They just didn't fit. You could say that about any number of big players who didn't prosper at the big 2 in Spain, but still went on to have great careers elsewhere.

I remember games where Walcott would be put through one one one 3-4 times in just one half .

 

[GDeep™]

 

[Pepes blue pill]

Forgot not to come into this thread :frustrated: some of the takes are just incredible but reading about both cesc and Özil and realising I never had the chance to see them play in the same side just makes me sad, that wouldve been football heaven

 

[Toby]

They had specific plans for him that didn't work out.

Didn't Pep try to implement a 3-4-3 diamond with Messi as false 9 and Fabregas at 10 and it just didn't work? He did have good stats but that system never took off, and with Xavi-Iniesta-Busquets deadset starters and Messi up top operating that half 9 space, Cesc was surplus to requirements.

 

[Jimmy282304]

That Fabregas move never made a football sense, the only reason why he was bought was because he was buddies with Xavi, Iniesta, and Pique.

 

[Rex Stone]

Didn't Pep try to implement a 3-4-3 diamond with Messi as false 9 and Fabregas at 10 and it just didn't work? He did have good stats but that system never took off, and with Xavi-Iniesta-Busquets deadset starters and Messi up top operating that half 9 space, Cesc was surplus to requirements.

Kept shunting Iniesta to the right flank but that didn’t work because Pep likes to have his system with two pacey wide players pinned high ideally.

Cesc couldn’t control the game from deep like Iniesta could, Iniesta would get forward late into attacks but would let them develop first.

Cesc didn’t have that ability.

 

[Toby]

Kept shunting Iniesta to the right flank but that didn’t work because Pep likes to have his system with two pacey wide players pinned high ideally.

Cesc couldn’t control the game from deep like Iniesta could, Iniesta would get forward late into attacks but would let them develop first.

Cesc didn’t have that ability.

Ah yeah, I remember that, too. 343 diamond or 433 with Iniesta wide. Sometimes feels like they just got Cesc for the sake of having him because "Barca DNA" and then failed to implement him.

 

[Riou]

I always preferred Cesc deeper for us, than playing as a number 10 from 2009 on as he did, think he is an excellent midfield controller...he was excellent for us in the middle during our 2006 Champions League run, and superb in 07-08 when we should have won the league.

Never seemed to "fit" at Barca for some reason, no shame in that...Bergkamp and Henry never worked in Italy, still they were pretty good for us, sometimes players don't fit...Cesc was still great even after leaving Barca, was probably Chelsea's best player after Hazard in 14-15.

 

[UpTheGunnerz]

Mesut have seen an upward trajectory in form, let's hope he can keep it up. But i would not count on it.So friggin inconsistent.

 

[OSBK]

Forgot not to come into this thread :frustrated: some of the takes are just incredible but reading about both cesc and Özil and realising I never had the chance to see them play in the same side just makes me sad, that wouldve been football heaven

Santi,cesc,Özil

Pure football

 

[Pepes blue pill]

Santi,cesc,Özil

Pure football

 

[Riou]