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Mikel Arteta: Top Of The Klopps

scytheavatar

Established Member
My point regarding Leicester and Liverpool' midfield option is that their manager is getting the most out of them. Nobody of sane mind is telling me that Choudary and Maddison should be out performing Ceballos and Özil.

Ceballos is an average player who Zidane doesn't care about for good reasons...... Özil is a past it overpaid player who had like 2 good season in his entire time with us. Why are you pretending as if it is that difficult to out perform them?
 

truth_hurts

but Holding’s hair transplant was painless
There's no objectivity here. A Spanish under 21 star, who was scooped up by Madrid should be outperformed by a 22 year old from Loughborough who isn't even mentioned amongst his countries best players?

And 350k a week, world cup winner and 5 time German Footballer should be out performed by a guy with less than 5 England caps?

What the hell is this?

I rate both Leicester players, but I rate Rodgers more.
 

scytheavatar

Established Member
There's no objectivity here. A Spanish under 21 star, who was scooped up by Madrid should be outperformed by a 22 year old from Loughborough who isn't even mentioned amongst his countries best players?

And 350k a week, world cup winner and 5 time German Footballer should be out performed by a guy with less than 5 England caps?

What the hell is this?

I rate both Leicester players, but I rate Rodgers more.

Plenty of players who were gods at under 21 level end up flopping when they are older........ similarly plenty of players get overpaid and then end up losing the drive they once had. Our board thinking like you is precisely why we have ended up becoming a Europa league club.
 

truth_hurts

but Holding’s hair transplant was painless
Plenty of players who were gods at under 21 level end up flopping when they are older........ similarly plenty of players get overpaid and then end up losing the drive they once had. Our board thinking like you is precisely why we have ended up becoming a Europa league club.

Please explain how I think. The board as bad as they are do not set up formations and tactics.

My argument is that Arteta isn't getting that much out of his players. At least not as much as he was credited for.
 

scytheavatar

Established Member
Please explain how I think. The board as bad as they are do not set up formations and tactics.

My argument is that Arteta isn't getting that much out of his players. At least not as much as he was credited for.

And my argument is that Emery hasn't been far from getting the most of what he can from our current players, and he was finished the moment the geniuses in our club thought it was a good idea to replace Ramsey with Ceballos. What can our managers do when so many of our players are low ceiling and have massive shortcomings that cause other teams to stay away from? Reminder that we managed to sign Pepe only because Bayern/PSG thought it was a stupid idea to spend that much money on him.
 

truth_hurts

but Holding’s hair transplant was painless
And my argument is that Emery hasn't been far from getting the most of what he can from our current players, and he was finished the moment the geniuses in our club thought it was a good idea to replace Ramsey with Ceballos. What can our managers do when so many of our players are low ceiling and have massive shortcomings that cause other teams to stay away from? Reminder that we managed to sign Pepe only because Bayern/PSG thought it was a stupid idea to spend that much money on him.

Fair enough. Özil not assisting and creating much, Laca looking lost in front of goal and Pepe looking like a lost sheep at times. I feel that these 3 players in particular are far better then what has been shown. It's hard to ascertain the ability level of Ceballos in fairness. The like of Bellerin, Xhaka and Sokratis may be mid table level.

I can't blame the board for draws against the likes of Burnley and losing at home to Olypiakos with a near enough full strength team.

Arteta needs a full season, but I'm struggling to see this huge progress that others seem to be seeing.
 

scytheavatar

Established Member
Fair enough. Özil not assisting and creating much, Laca looking lost in front of goal and Pepe looking like a lost sheep at times. I feel that these 3 players in particular are far better then what has been shown. It's hard to ascertain the ability level of Ceballos in fairness. The like of Bellerin, Xhaka and Sokratis may be mid table level.

I can't blame the board for draws against the likes of Burnley and losing at home to Olypiakos with a near enough full strength team.

Arteta needs a full season, but I'm struggling to see this huge progress that others seem to be seeing.

You can have a Neymar/Mbappe/Messi front 3 and they are going to look a lot less impressive too if they have to rely on Xhaka getting the ball to them...... we were on track to finish top 4 last season until Ramsey got injured. Had Ramsey been replaced properly Emery might still be our manager right now. But no, our board decided to take the cheapass route when the chance to sign Partey was there. And we paid the price for that.
 

BigPoppaPump

Reeling from Laca & Kos nightmares
There's no objectivity here. A Spanish under 21 star, who was scooped up by Madrid should be outperformed by a 22 year old from Loughborough who isn't even mentioned amongst his countries best players?

And 350k a week, world cup winner and 5 time German Footballer should be out performed by a guy with less than 5 England caps?

What the hell is this?

I rate both Leicester players, but I rate Rodgers more.

Although I agree with you that Arteta is in over his head, Ceballos has no god given right to be better than Maddison where they came from doesn't matter. Ceballos is not good and Özil is washed up, you're speaking in hypothetical's.

People need to realise manager only make so much of a difference and the vast majority is the quality of players at your disposal.
 

truth_hurts

but Holding’s hair transplant was painless
Although I agree with you that Arteta is in over his head, Ceballos has no god given right to be better than Maddison where they came from doesn't matter. Ceballos is not good and Özil is washed up, you're speaking in hypothetical's.

People need to realise manager only make so much of a difference and the vast majority is the quality of players at your disposal.

It was Choudary I has been comparing to Ceballos. I'm not hammering Arteta, but am just not seeing what others are seeing regarding these improvements.

ANM was playing a lot better before being dropped, Luiz as well.
 

truth_hurts

but Holding’s hair transplant was painless
You can have a Neymar/Mbappe/Messi front 3 and they are going to look a lot less impressive too if they have to rely on Xhaka getting the ball to them...... we were on track to finish top 4 last season until Ramsey got injured. Had Ramsey been replaced properly Emery might still be our manager right now. But no, our board decided to take the cheapass route when the chance to sign Partey was there. And we paid the price for that.

The board are a mess. In no way, shape or form am I creating an argument for them.
 

BigPoppaPump

Reeling from Laca & Kos nightmares
It was Choudary I has been comparing to Ceballos. I'm not hammering Arteta, but am just not seeing what others are seeing regarding these improvements.

ANM was playing a lot better before being dropped, Luiz as well.

I agree about Arteta though, it's another hype job by Arsenal fans. Reminds me of all the 'big dck' Raul stuff that went on just for them all to switch sides.
 

truth_hurts

but Holding’s hair transplant was painless
I agree about Arteta though, it's another hype job by Arsenal fans. Reminds me of all the 'big dck' Raul stuff that went on just for them all to switch sides.

Went from the guy assisting Neymar's dad to a cancer on AFC.

Really hope that Arteta is backed this summer as he deserves the chance to build a squad that he wants.
 

RunTheTrap

Kai Havertz Offense League
While I hope Arteta is backed this summer. I also hope he shows his ruthlessness. Can’t start the 2020/21 season with Mustafi, Lacazette and Xhaka in your starting lineup. It’s what separates the good coaches from the elite. I felt Wenger had it in his early days but lost it, Emery never had it and I’m not sure on Arteta yet. Fergie done it and won numerous trophies, Pep did it in his first managerial season and complete revamped Barca’s fortune. It shows the players that you’re 100% committed to your ideals and forces the board to commit to either you or the players.
 

Tourbillion

Angry & Miserable
While I hope Arteta is backed this summer. I also hope he shows his ruthlessness. Can’t start the 2020/21 season with Mustafi, Lacazette and Xhaka in your starting lineup. It’s what separates the good coaches from the elite. I felt Wenger had it in his early days but lost it, Emery never had it and I’m not sure on Arteta yet. Fergie done it and won numerous trophies, Pep did it in his first managerial season and complete revamped Barca’s fortune. It shows the players that you’re 100% committed to your ideals and forces the board to commit to either you or the players.
Absolutely. We cannot start next season with any of those three. It would be unforgivable and downright disgusting.

Let's finally erase all remnants from that horrifying late Wenger, and give our new head coach a full team in his image.
 

Oxeki

Match Day Thread Merchant
Trusted ⭐

Country: Nigeria

Player:Saliba
The defense is not a priority. Even if we sell mustafi and we don't replace, I'm okay with it. But we must bin Xhaka and Laca and bring in better upgrade. If we can get a powerhouse CM and better CF than Laca and bring in a LW as a bonus, we'll be a serious contender for CL spot next season
 

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