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Mikel Arteta: Top Of The Klopps

Tosker

Does Not Hate Foreigners
other teams who are better than us now have failed to qualify for Europe before, and have become stronger as a result

one season with nothing to distract us from the domestic season might be a good thing
 

Tosker

Does Not Hate Foreigners
That's one issue I have noticed looking at training pictures & videos through the website though, sometimes they tend to be mucking around to much or just having a "ball" not in a serious state of mind, if they want to improve they should be the opposite. It's not the fans problem it's theirs.
could be they are being encouraged to mug it up for the camera
 

OnlyOne

‘Donkeys don’t have a peak, they remain useless’
Trusted ⭐

Country: England
The problem is also that these players have experienced losing so many matches that it neither comes as a surprise to them or a disappointment.

It's just something usual and they have become accustomed to it. I would say most of these players are abit fed up right after the match but the next day they just wipe it from their memories and get on with their everyday life. Parties, nice cars, doing things with their families.

They are picking up millions a year and the way each individual sees it is ...its not my fault the team is crap. Or they dont spend money. Or he didnt score from my assist.

As I said it before if we fail to qualify for Europe that means Arteta can basically reduce his squad to about 20 players and get rid of dead wood.

Mustafi can go for 5-6m. Sokratis too.
Miki of the wages let him go for again maybe 5-6m.
Luiz dont renew the contract.
Elneny out for something similar as above.
I would sell both Laca and Auba (if he isnt going to renew). For the 2 we might get 50-60m.

Pay Özil the rest of his contract and let him leave.

We have basically got all of our top earners off our wage bill and really the only one we would miss is Auba.

We clear the older players and maybe with sales and money available could have 100m to buy.

We need to invest in youth but players who have actually played enough. 20-24 age range. They need to be sold a project. And by having a super young squad you can do that.

Might we finished next season 9th/10th/11th? Course we might. But that doesnt mean some good young players cant be bought and developed.

We also need to start looking closer to home. The championship has players who will make the step up to the PL.

Couldn't agree more with a lot of this, we need to just cut our losses with guys like Mustafi, Sokratis, Mhki, Elneny and others, offer them to clubs for dirt cheap and just try get them off the wages. The board bang on about being a club with CL wages and not being in the CL, well let's get rid of them even if it means taking less.

And your last point really upsets me, there is so much talent in the Championship and at other PL clubs which we absolutely should take advantage of but I think we'll go for some foreign CB who'll take ages to adapt.
 

Ashybashy86

Well-Known Member
That's one issue I have noticed looking at training pictures & videos through the website though, sometimes they tend to be mucking around to much or just having a "ball" not in a serious state of mind, if they want to improve they should be the opposite. It's not the fans problem it's theirs.
You're right. I've watched the way other clubs train, and it's different. Not saying it should be like bootcamp, but something is not right with the attitude.
 

Makingtrax

Worships in the house of Wenger 🙏
Trusted ⭐

Country: England

Player:Saliba
The problem is also that these players have experienced losing so many matches that it neither comes as a surprise to them or a disappointment.

It's just something usual and they have become accustomed to it. I would say most of these players are abit fed up right after the match but the next day they just wipe it from their memories and get on with their everyday life. Parties, nice cars, doing things with their families.

They are picking up millions a year and the way each individual sees it is ...its not my fault the team is crap. Or they dont spend money. Or he didnt score from my assist.

As I said it before if we fail to qualify for Europe that means Arteta can basically reduce his squad to about 20 players and get rid of dead wood.

Mustafi can go for 5-6m. Sokratis too.
Miki of the wages let him go for again maybe 5-6m.
Luiz dont renew the contract.
Elneny out for something similar as above.
I would sell both Laca and Auba (if he isnt going to renew). For the 2 we might get 50-60m.

Pay Özil the rest of his contract and let him leave.

We have basically got all of our top earners off our wage bill and really the only one we would miss is Auba.

We clear the older players and maybe with sales and money available could have 100m to buy.

We need to invest in youth but players who have actually played enough. 20-24 age range. They need to be sold a project. And by having a super young squad you can do that.

Might we finished next season 9th/10th/11th? Course we might. But that doesnt mean some good young players cant be bought and developed.

We also need to start looking closer to home. The championship has players who will make the step up to the PL.
For years clubs from all over the world have tried this policy of being smart and buying youngsters from lower teams in the hope of developing a squad that can compete with the rich teams. It only comes off once a blue moon.

History tells us there's only one sure fire way of competing with the top teams and thats buying tried and tested pros. Liverpools £700+m squad are bringing on Ox, Lallana, Shakiri, Origi as subs even! Scouting is still not a science yet and the younger you buy the less accurate it is. Look how many bright young kids end up being let go from academies.

Alright we can only afford£400+m squad but we can still buy a good number of regular pros and make them work hard. I agree with the rest of your post about completely revamping the squad though. But too many youngsters is not a recipe for success unless you're very lucky.
 

Ashybashy86

Well-Known Member
other teams who are better than us now have failed to qualify for Europe before, and have become stronger as a result

one season with nothing to distract us from the domestic season might be a good thing
The thing is, we don't operate like other clubs. Will be interesting to see how we react to this though.
 

Aussie_gunner123

Established Member

Country: Australia
Do you guys reckon Arteta might get sacked if our form goes worse over the next 8 games?
I'd preferable hope not, I think this time we've got to stick with him for a few seasons at least, we can't just go from manager to manager after year or 2. It seems as though he does have a plan in place & has apparently demanded for a bit of cash in the window this year which tells me has has players & positions in mind at least. If he gets the team he wants he'll get his game plan sorted aswell eventually. The majority of this squad probably aren't in his plans either & it will take a few windows to get going.
 

Garrincha

Wilf Zaha Aficionado
Trusted ⭐
Do you guys reckon Arteta might get sacked if our form goes worse over the next 8 games?
Guess Raul gets the chop first for signings & appointing a rookie for this squad.

Doubt we can afford to sack another manager + staff anytime soon.
 

14Henry

Looking for receipts 👀
For years clubs from all over the world have tried this policy of being smart and buying youngsters from lower teams in the hope of developing a squad that can compete with the rich teams. It only comes off once a blue moon.

History tells us there's only one sure fire way of competing with the top teams and thats buying tried and tested pros. Liverpools £700+m squad are bringing on Ox, Lallana, Shakiri, Origi as subs even! Scouting is still not a science yet and the younger you buy the less accurate it is. Look how many bright young kids end up being let go from academies.

Alright we can only afford£400+m squad but we can still buy a good number of regular pros and make them work hard. I agree with the rest of your post about completely revamping the squad though. But too many youngsters is not a recipe for success unless you're very lucky.

Yeah it is hard but my issue is as a club that is sitting midtable. Who can we get who is say 26/27 who can improve us but is willing to give up all ambition to join us.

And who is affordable.

Theres many players in the premier league who would come to us and likely improve us. But are we going to spend big money on them.

Would Lewis Dunk improve us? Yes. By much? No. How much would he cost. Maybe today 30m before CV 40m?.

Is there a player in the Championship who would cost 10m who has the same characteristics as him but is maybe only starting to look have decent in and around 23/24? Could they make a similar step up? Who knows.

The problem we see at Arsenal is we cant really afford or attract the Van Dijks or the Allison's. Which means we look in the middle range market of players playing for middle of the road teams who are already mid 20s and we think. Get them here and we will improve them but that never happens either.

We didnt sign Henry/Vieira/Anelka/Toures etc at 25/26. Yes we did make signings of mid 20s players but a lot of our signings came from risks. Young players who looked to have ability but things just weren't working out in their current environments. I think that's the market we need.

I would rather take a chance on 4 hungry 21/22 year olds who see Arsenal as a stepping stone who if they fail cost little and if they do well brilliant or sell for more money, than sign 4 25 year olds from say Wolfsburg/Valencia/Udinese/Lyon-esque teams when really that is their level and there isnt more left. I have nothing against signing 21/22 year olds from those clubs. But not players basically at their peak age mid 20s where the chance of improvement is basically close to 0. 0 resale value either.
 

OnlyOne

‘Donkeys don’t have a peak, they remain useless’
Trusted ⭐

Country: England
We scored some of the nicest goals under Emery fwiw, hope to see more from Arteta.
 

Makingtrax

Worships in the house of Wenger 🙏
Trusted ⭐

Country: England

Player:Saliba
Yeah it is hard but my issue is as a club that is sitting midtable. Who can we get who is say 26/27 who can improve us but is willing to give up all ambition to join us.

And who is affordable.

Theres many players in the premier league who would come to us and likely improve us. But are we going to spend big money on them.

Would Lewis Dunk improve us? Yes. By much? No. How much would he cost. Maybe today 30m before CV 40m?.

Is there a player in the Championship who would cost 10m who has the same characteristics as him but is maybe only starting to look have decent in and around 23/24? Could they make a similar step up? Who knows.

The problem we see at Arsenal is we cant really afford or attract the Van Dijks or the Allison's. Which means we look in the middle range market of players playing for middle of the road teams who are already mid 20s and we think. Get them here and we will improve them but that never happens either.

We didnt sign Henry/Vieira/Anelka/Toures etc at 25/26. Yes we did make signings of mid 20s players but a lot of our signings came from risks. Young players who looked to have ability but things just weren't working out in their current environments. I think that's the market we need.

I would rather take a chance on 4 hungry 21/22 year olds who see Arsenal as a stepping stone who if they fail cost little and if they do well brilliant or sell for more money, than sign 4 25 year olds from say Wolfsburg/Valencia/Udinese/Lyon-esque teams when really that is their level and there isnt more left. I have nothing against signing 21/22 year olds from those clubs. But not players basically at their peak age mid 20s where the chance of improvement is basically close to 0. 0 resale value either.
Sums up some of the problems. Once you fall out of the CL and then the EL the money starts drying up, you don't have the kudos of a world respected manager anymore and recruitment becomes much more difficult.

Its a slippery slope we're on, and a hell of a job for Arteta. He wasn't expecting a run of the mill mid-table club in the few years he'd been away. He left a club 2nd in the league, even if the fans were already starting their **** mission.
 

14Henry

Looking for receipts 👀
Sums up some of the problems. Once you fall out of the CL and then the EL the money starts drying up, you don't have the kudos of a world respected manager anymore and recruitment becomes much more difficult.

Its a slippery slope we're on, and a hell of a job for Arteta. He wasn't expecting a run of the mill mid-table club in the few years he'd been away. He left a club 2nd in the league, even if the fans were already starting their **** mission.

The problem is we didnt make the most of that time. Sitting 2nd or 3rd was when those cash reserves needed spent. By the time we fixed one area the other areas needed addressing.

And by the time we did that one striker or star player wanted out.

Whereas if you try a young squad you have less problems with replacing aging players.

**** knows. Where in an awful mess and this has been 10 years of problems. Not just Arteta/Özil/Wenger/Emery/Kronke/Gazidas etc but a big mix of everything. From acceptance of top 4 from everyone to contract problems or not dealing with agents etc.
 

GunnerShy

Well-Known Member
The problem is we didnt make the most of that time. Sitting 2nd or 3rd was when those cash reserves needed spent. By the time we fixed one area the other areas needed addressing.

And by the time we did that one striker or star player wanted out.

Whereas if you try a young squad you have less problems with replacing aging players.

**** knows. Where in an awful mess and this has been 10 years of problems. Not just Arteta/Özil/Wenger/Emery/Kronke/Gazidas etc but a big mix of everything. From acceptance of top 4 from everyone to contract problems or not dealing with agents etc.
Biggest issue now is still cultural. Look at the names in our squad, pedigree. It's still good enough to be between 4-6.

They've downed tools, lead by the senior players and the only way to fix it is to turn over a large portion of the squad.

The job is enormous. We will need some luck to do it quickly
 

14Henry

Looking for receipts 👀
Biggest issue now is still cultural. Look at the names in our squad, pedigree. It's still good enough to be between 4-6.

They've downed tools, lead by the senior players and the only way to fix it is to turn over a large portion of the squad.

The job is enormous. We will need some luck to do it quickly

That's why I dont want Europa League this year. With one game a week you can afford to get rid of a huge number of players. A squad of 20 is enough. If we have more competitions we end up hanging onto Özil, Mustafi, and one or two others who offer nothing.

I prefer a smaller squad who may not be good enough with more time to prepare than a big squad with less time between matches and this cant be bothered attitude.
 

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