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Mikel Arteta: Top Of The Klopps

Monstar-Gunn4r

Established Member
I think this idea that refereeing decisions make little or no difference is utter tripe. If my team is allowed to clearly foul you 14 times without a yellow it is so easy to manage the game and those are the fouls thatw ere taken note of. Their fullback managed to shoulder two of your players in the face with nothing done, one wasnt even considered a foul.

Do you know how awkward a yellow card makes defending, can you imagine having Aubemeyang running off your shoulder as a fullback when you're already on a yellow? You will be making damn fkin sure you;re close to your centreback. If you're allowed foul with impunity which is what a lot of teams are doing to us it means every time we counterattack they can stop it with a foul. If you can't fkin counterattack it and being forced back in to your own third you have no threat and no hope of getting out because they can squeeze and squeeze because if you do try to play out they can just fkin foul us. This is every fkin game, every good chance we have of a counterttack lately they foul early or late and rarely get penalised.

How fkin bad is it that Pepe (and I criticise him a lot) almost every game goes out and gets tackled in what should be straight red card, I don;t know how the fk he doesnt have a leg broken already. What does that do to you, the team, the tactics?

Ignore the controversial decisions and pretend not getting penalties or goals dont matter (how fkin stupid do you have to be to think constant non sending offs and goals dont matter much) and just look at how easy it is to stop us developing a rythm or counter attacking, nearly every time we find a gap they can foul because its not a yellow. If we try the same cynical sh*t we get booked.

One more thing people saying that us not getting the decisions we deserve doesnt matter because we should win anyway, please open your eyes and live in the real world, this team right now isnt good enough to win when there is a massive bias in refereeing, yes a better team should but were not there yet.
 

Penn_

Established Member
Trusted ⭐
I will repeat again. I'm not saying they are irrelevant. I'm saying that we are not in the position we are in the league because it VAR. Do you agree with that statement. Dont dodge it just say yes or no. A poster above stated we were about 7/8 points down because of VAR which i


Ok we are 8th in the league because of VAR. Let's all jump on that train.

Embarrassing the narrative around the club.

We have lost more points from winning positions than most team. That's VAR to.

Xhaka or Mustafi will probably give away a penalty on Sunday and we will blame VAR too.

We are not 7/8 points down this season because of VAR. Simple as.

Obviously other teams would’ve had bad VAR calls too and might gain points but we definitely deserve to be in the top four challenge, it’s not like the other teams have been outstandingly better.

4th to 8th are fairly interchangeable this season performance wise.



Watch those and seriously tell me it hasn’t effected the table.
 

14Henry

Looking for receipts 👀
Obviously other teams would’ve had bad VAR calls too and might gain points but we definitely deserve to be in the top four challenge, it’s not like the other teams have been outstandingly better.

4th to 8th are fairly interchangeable this season performance wise.



Watch those and seriously tell me it hasn’t effected the table.

Affected the table by how much? A previous poster said 7/8 points. In your opinion we are 7/8 points down because of VAR?

There is no team above us in the league that doesnt deserve to be above us. You say positions are interchangeable. Go and look at our average position this season. I would guess it isnt 5th or 6th. We havent been close to anything this year. Struggling to even get Europa league as we cant beat brighton. Not because of VAR.

We got dumped out of Europa League because we were rubbish. Not because of VAR or referees.

And to think that maybe a one game format may actually have suited us.
 
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lomekian

Essays are my thing
That's the problem. I sometimes feel as fans that we are clutching at straws trying to cry about decisions and not getting them. However in reality they dont/wouldnt make a difference. Would those extra 2 points at Palace made a difference to our over all season? No.

Had we killed of the game against Leciester when we had to opportunities we wouldnt even blink about VAR. In fact maybe Nketiah doesnt even make the challenge if we are 2/3 0 up. He closes down but maybe not as aggressively.

Hard to know.

First part - who knows...2 points may be the difference between Europa League and not. Agree it matters more when we are good enough to compete, and I agree that if Laca plants his header properly, subsequent events probably don't happen.

But then as with the earlier part of the discussion we do start to go down a bit of a philosophical rabbit hole...
 

lomekian

Essays are my thing
I will repeat again. I'm not saying they are irrelevant. I'm saying that we are not in the position we are in the league because it VAR. Do you agree with that statement. Dont dodge it just say yes or no. A poster above stated we were about 7/8 points down because of VAR which i


Ok we are 8th in the league because of VAR. Let's all jump on that train.

Embarrassing the narrative around the club.

We have lost more points from winning positions than most team. That's VAR to.

Xhaka or Mustafi will probably give away a penalty on Sunday and we will blame VAR too.

We are not 7/8 points down this season because of VAR. Simple as.

You keep saying this, but its a misrepresentation of what was actually said, as I've already explained.

Its not that we are worse off BECAUSE of VAR it is that we are worse off than we would be IF VAR WAS USED PROPERLY ALL SEASON. There were a series of rickets earlier in the season where VAR wasn't used at all or didn't contradict a ref despite clear and obvious errors made in crucial situations in tight games. The cost isn't due to VAR vs NO VAR. Its due to VAR used correctly vs the bullshit the FA were trotting out at the start of the season where every week saw multiple **** ups.

I'd quite like the extra points that would have had a significantly increased chance of being accrued without officiating mistakes. We still wouldn't be top 5, but EL football would mean a lot financially to the club.

Not to mention, despite our embarrassing collapse last year, if the ref at WHL had understood the laws of the game, we would have had significantly increased chance of winning and finishing 4th, even with Auba's penalty miss.
 
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Red London

Anti-Simp Culture
Trusted ⭐
Can someone name me a match where we were really lucky with ref decisions, which resulted in us gaining points?? I'm geniunely curious if we've had one.

We've had so many questionable matches like Crystal Palace under Emery, Chelsea at the Emirates, and those multiple games like Palace away and Brighton away where a player on the home side broke the season record for most fouls without a yellow (Ayew, Bissouma).

In my opinion it has gotten worse this season and last, I feel like refs dont appreciate our play acting (Lacazette, Guendouzi, Torreira always pretending they've been sniped by someone in the crowd). I think it makes them not want to give it. Look at AMN vs Villa, look how little he did for two yellows. And then compare that to Jorginho at the Emirates. I'm sick of this. I think Arteta is logical enough to realise that if your players get the reputation of being play acters then more decisions will go against you (boy who cried wolf kinda ****).

Another help would be to bring in some more sturdy players and match their bullshit. We dont put out as much hard tackles as the opponents, we dont have the sort of players who have that as their bread and butter. I want some tough and physical players bought in CB and CM. Players who match the physique of the players playing at mid table club, but are seperated from them through their ability on the ball.
 

Hunta

Established Member
Trusted ⭐

Country: England
The league is corrupt, no two ways about it. The PL want a proper title challenge between the two biggest clubs in Liverpool and United. I’m not even talking about pens/cards here, just the natural decisions in their games, the 50/50s that allow a team momentum, always go to those two sides.

They also want a success story from a small club which is why the likes of Leicester and Sheffied United get away with so much and get their own dodgy decisions.

Arsenal being in disarray is good for numbers, historically a big club with a big online presence, aftv etc, good for the PL if they’re all up in arms making content.

You look on TV, Sky with Keane, Evra and Neville on commentary for Villa/United. Souness, Redknapp and Carragher on commentary for Liverpool games. We get Ashley Cole and Redknapp. :rofl:
 

Penn_

Established Member
Trusted ⭐
Affected the table by how much? A previous poster said 7/8 points. In your opinion we are 7/8 points down because of VAR?

There is no team above us in the league that doesnt deserve to be above us. You say positions are interchangeable. Go and look at our average position this season. I would guess it isnt 5th or 6th. We havent been close to anything this year. Struggling to even get Europa league as we cant beat brighton. Not because of VAR.

We got dumped out of Europa League because we were rubbish. Not because of VAR or referees.

And to think that maybe a one game format may actually have suited us.

No ones saying we’re that been amazing, we know we’ve been crap.

But just an extra four points from poor calls would’ve put us in the running for CL.


Skip to the end, there’s no way we get that decision btw. :lol:

Also denied penalty at Sheffield.

 

Macho

In search of Pure Profit 💸
Dusted 🔻

Country: England
Massive simp fest his press conference. Absolute disgrace for an Arsenal coach to be talking up Sp**s and Mourinho like that.

#ArtetaOut is closer and closer to returning.
?

He was right about what he said, Arteta doesn’t really have chat for Mourinho when it comes to management. What was he supposed to say?

His main reference is Pep who’s often very generous on his praise on fellow managers as well, makes sense.
 

14Henry

Looking for receipts 👀
No ones saying we’re that been amazing, we know we’ve been crap.

But just an extra four points from poor calls would’ve put us in the running for CL.


Skip to the end, there’s no way we get that decision btw. :lol:

Also denied penalty at Sheffield.


Of course we get closer. I'm not saying that an extra 4 points isnt welcome. What I'm saying is I dont want us as fans to get on this.....we are where we are because of VAR. I want fan focus to be on the deficiencies of the team.

I want the players and the coach to be responsible for the outcomes. As I said had the team actually done what they should have against Leciester Eddie's red is irrelevant.

And too many times this season we have been flat or afraid or unable to kill teams off and that is the reason we are were we are. We also have too many players making too many silly decisions. Eddie's was one. We cant say well Jonny Evan's made 8 fouls so it's ok if Eddie snaps into a challenge. The bottom line is Eddie made a poor challenge. Over eager. Which is potentially cost us 3 points.

Lacazette straying offside and not looking the line. School boy stuff. Cost us 3 points.

Poor finishing cost us 3 points and you could look at every match we lost this season or dropped points and find a million faults before we would even consider VAR.

Again I am not saying it's ok for VAR to get things wrong or be used wrong. I'm merely saying that when you have displayed the mistakes we have as a team we should be focusing on them and not trying to say we have been robbed 7-8 points which is what the original poster said to which i replied back.
 

CaseUteinberger

Established Member

Country: Sweden
Massive simp fest his press conference. Absolute disgrace for an Arsenal coach to be talking up Sp**s and Mourinho like that.

#ArtetaOut is closer and closer to returning.
Makes 100% sense to blow hot air up Mourinho’s backside and praise him and his squad. Many coaches talk up their opposition before games. It lowers outside expectations on you end and build them up on the other side. Plus in Mourinho’s case it doesn’t give him a chance to create more bunker mentality.

Plus in honesty, what is Arteta to do? He is a new coach that hasn’t won anything, coming up against a manager that has a lot, and I mean a lot of trophies. I hate Mourinho as much as anyone, but he has had success. That can be acknowledged and respected without being a sycophant.
 

Manberg

Predator
Of course we get closer. I'm not saying that an extra 4 points isnt welcome. What I'm saying is I dont want us as fans to get on this.....we are where we are because of VAR. I want fan focus to be on the deficiencies of the team.

I want the players and the coach to be responsible for the outcomes. As I said had the team actually done what they should have against Leciester Eddie's red is irrelevant.

And too many times this season we have been flat or afraid or unable to kill teams off and that is the reason we are were we are. We also have too many players making too many silly decisions. Eddie's was one. We cant say well Jonny Evan's made 8 fouls so it's ok if Eddie snaps into a challenge. The bottom line is Eddie made a poor challenge. Over eager. Which is potentially cost us 3 points.

Lacazette straying offside and not looking the line. School boy stuff. Cost us 3 points.

Poor finishing cost us 3 points and you could look at every match we lost this season or dropped points and find a million faults before we would even consider VAR.

Again I am not saying it's ok for VAR to get things wrong or be used wrong. I'm merely saying that when you have displayed the mistakes we have as a team we should be focusing on them and not trying to say we have been robbed 7-8 points which is what the original poster said to which i replied back.


What team doesn’t make mistakes? Football is more often than not defined by fine margins. We’re not an exceptional side that could consistently win against 12 men. Referees doing their jobs properly by booking yellow cards for the correct fouls makes a huge difference. If a player is on a yellow card he will be cautious when going in for future tackles.
 

lomekian

Essays are my thing
@14Henry I think the point is that it isn't a binary issue. Arsenal being utter crap and devoid of confidence Oct-Dec is obviously a bigger determiner of league position than bad refs BUT bad refs have resulted in the team having an artificially low points total.

I agree that the greater focus has to be on the team's improvement, particularly as there is nothing we can do about referees incompetence / bias, but that doesn't mean the litany of officiating errors that cost us points year after year should be ignored. I don't think anyone uses it to excuse the team's failings (perhaps except the 50th game and RVP red vs Barca both of which were totally bent refereeing displays that dictated the outcome to an extraordinary degree), but seeing the same stuff year after year after year is not something we have to be happy with.

The bottom line is there are some refs at EPL level who are simply not fit for purpose, and they are all also VAR refs, so the get to double down on that incompetence, rather than the system which is designed to reduce refereeing errors being allowed to do so to an acceptable level.
 

14Henry

Looking for receipts 👀
@14Henry I think the point is that it isn't a binary issue. Arsenal being utter crap and devoid of confidence Oct-Dec is obviously a bigger determiner of league position than bad refs BUT bad refs have resulted in the team having an artificially low points total.

I agree that the greater focus has to be on the team's improvement, particularly as there is nothing we can do about referees incompetence / bias, but that doesn't mean the litany of officiating errors that cost us points year after year should be ignored. I don't think anyone uses it to excuse the team's failings (perhaps except the 50th game and RVP red vs Barca both of which were totally bent refereeing displays that dictated the outcome to an extraordinary degree), but seeing the same stuff year after year after year is not something we have to be happy with.

The bottom line is there are some refs at EPL level who are simply not fit for purpose, and they are all also VAR refs, so the get to double down on that incompetence, rather than the system which is designed to reduce refereeing errors being allowed to do so to an acceptable level.

So you believe that the FA and referees have an agenda against Arsenal. If you say there is a bias why do you believe that referees will give us things that should be given and not give us things that should be given.

I'm not saying your wrong. I'm asking why would Arsenal be targeted by the FA and refs in this way? What is in it for them and why us?
 

Monstar-Gunn4r

Established Member
So you believe that the FA and referees have an agenda against Arsenal. If you say there is a bias why do you believe that referees will give us things that should be given and not give us things that should be given.

I'm not saying your wrong. I'm asking why would Arsenal be targeted by the FA and refs in this way? What is in it for them and why us?

Very few people believe that the referees and fa have an agenda against Arsenal. Many people and the statistics believe this that there is a clear bias in officiating and refereeing, not just for Arsenal, there are other teams who suffer or benefit from clear bias.

Mike Riley probably likes Utd given his previous officiating he is now in charge of the premier league refs. What happens is that if you make a mistake against Utd it matters a lot more than any other team, you don't get the better or more high profile matches and you get more matches in championship instead etc. It seems to happen a lot that if it is any way debatable give the decision to Utd and it will be ignored, get a decision wrong against Utd and it will be a big deal.

What is likely happening is that no current referee likes Arsenal but a few dislike Arsenal. When you have a referee officiating a match and openly celebrating one of the teams getting goals etc. it is no surprise that the referees in the premiership are not regarded as anything but biased. There are a few decent refs but they are far and few in between and as I pointed it out if you decide wrong against someone like Utd rather than Arsenal you are inclined to suffer.

Arsenal historically in my opinion has suffered due to a number of things, in Europe we're seen as an English club and in England we're seen as a European /French or non-Enlgish club. We've nearly always had a more diverse team than others, weren't we the first team to play a fully non-English first 11? Added ot that we were by and far a much more technical and just ebtter team so the idea was you had to kick us and that was okay, what other team comes close to their players getting their legs broken? Even now Pepe is lucky to be walking.

Var has really brought the bias in to the light because previously was the excuse they could only look at it once... but now why are their decisions so inconsistent and just generally bad???

In short its easy to make a bad decision against Arsenal because it wont matter when it comes to getting the better matches and referees have a general disdain for us historically and many of them have clear bias for their favorite teams.
 

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