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Philippe Coutinho

Do you want Coutinho to join Arsenal On Loan?


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bingobob

A-M’s Resident Hunskelper
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Country: Scotland
By swap do you mean they get Guendouzi permanently or a loan and we get Coutinho for a season?
Not sure. I'm just basing it on the rumour of a swap plus us paying Barcelona 9m. We get the raw end there. Unless that 9m means we dont take on any of his wages. Even then its pants.

Ideally we sell Guendouzi separately for a fee, a big one at that. But Barcelona arent exactly coming down with money. They done the accounting trick with Arthur and I believe they cancelled their buy back on Cucurella to get a smaller fee paid early to them.
 

AbouCuéllar

Author of A-M essays 📚
The overrating of Buendia on here is something else. He’s a player who if you took the time to watch him, you’d realise was closer to the likes of Kovacic or even our very own Ceballos in style. Watch how Kovacic was deployed at Inter Milan or Real Madrid and you’ll see exactly what I mean. Yes, he has impressive statistics in terms of chances created but let’s contextualise that. He was playing in a team set up to play on the counter who were more often than not toothless when given the opportunity (nod to his lack of goals).

In inviting pressure and being extremely bad at dealing with it, teams opened up against them and were willing to concede chances to them. High profile cases of this were the hime games against Chelsea and Man City where they managed to capitalise on these opportunities but as morale dropped, so did the goals.

They have wasted a lot of opportunities since then, primarily due to horrendous finishing but a considerable amount of these chances have only been created as a result of teams making the conscious decision to open up against them and Buendia, as well as your Cantwell, etc. have inflated stats as a result. For example - I’d back Ceballos to put up similar numbers of assists or chances created if he played in Norwich’s place.

You’ll also see exactly why he won’t provide what we lack. The reason we aren’t linked with him is because we still appear to be in negotiations with Ceballos who plays that middle man role in a midfield three, as does Partey - who I must stress is not the type of defensive midfielder that many seem to want him to be. He’s also the middle man of a midfield three. Similar to to Essien in a lot of ways but a lot more technical and offering more going forward as a result.

I can’t see how Ceballos and/or Partey as well as Busndia go any way to solving our creativity problems.

Kovacic never produced anything like the statistics Buendía is so that's a strange comparison. He also wasn't deployed or functioned at Madrid like Buendía at Norwich at all (who's deployed as a interior RW). Kovacic was above all a press-breaker and ball-carrier from deep at Madrid, also playing some 6. That doesn't have much to do with Buendía at all, again, Kovacic simply was not creating like Buendía was however you want to dismiss it.

Since this rung so false, took a quick look at whoscored: shows Kovacic most key passes in a season 1.2 for Inter. Most he is somewhere around .05-.09. Buendía 2.3.

Ceballos again, is also not a very apt comparison, and I have to strongly disagree with the bolded. In Ceballos' best season with Betis he had 1.3 key passes. With Arsenal this season 1.2. Ceballos, again, is not a creative focal point for any team, he's a pivot with good ball progression and passing abilities-- Buendía is a creative player.

You're right more or less about Partey but a pivot of Ceballos-Thomas would be viable, their skill sets complement each other's, but yeah, Ceballos would be the first one in the build-up many times (though Thomas is a decent enough passer).

I agree though he's not the panacea made out by some, though. Your comments on Buendía are off the mark, though.
 

tap-in

Nothing Wrong With Me
Not sure. I'm just basing it on the rumour of a swap plus us paying Barcelona 9m. We get the raw end there. Unless that 9m means we dont take on any of his wages. Even then its pants.

Ideally we sell Guendouzi separately for a fee, a big one at that. But Barcelona arent exactly coming down with money. They done the accounting trick with Arthur and I believe they cancelled their buy back on Cucurella to get a smaller fee paid early to them.

Yes I think we're be selling Guen separately, I heard Juventus are interested. I'm undecided about Coutinho, in some ways I prefer building but if he helps get us top 4 next season it would be worth it.
 

wolfkidultman

Active Member
Kovacic never produced anything like the statistics Buendía is so that's a strange comparison. He also wasn't deployed or functioned at Madrid like Buendía at Norwich at all (who's deployed as a interior RW). Kovacic was above all a press-breaker and ball-carrier from deep at Madrid, also playing some 6. That doesn't have much to do with Buendía at all, again, Kovacic simply was not creating like Buendía was however you want to dismiss it.

Since this rung so false, took a quick look at whoscored: shows Kovacic most key passes in a season 1.2 for Inter. Most he is somewhere around .05-.09. Buendía 2.3.

Ceballos again, is also not a very apt comparison, and I have to strongly disagree with the bolded. In Ceballos' best season with Betis he had 1.3 key passes. With Arsenal this season 1.2. Ceballos, again, is not a creative focal point for any team, he's a pivot with good ball progression and passing abilities-- Buendía is a creative player.

You're right more or less about Partey but a pivot of Ceballos-Thomas would be viable, their skill sets complement each other's, but yeah, Ceballos would be the first one in the build-up many times (though Thomas is a decent enough passer).

I agree though he's not the panacea made out by some, though. Your comments on Buendía are off the mark, though.

I’m sorry, but the stat comparisons you’ve provided mean nothing when you’ve quite correctly mentioned that Buendia is playing a different position. Look at his skillset and think how that would translate when playing in our midfield three. I highly doubt that his chance creation would be as high as it is currently, bearing in mind that he’s positioned higher up the field and playing against pretty open opponents who have looked to take the game to Norwich.
 

GDeep™

League is very weak
Don’t really understand why Mesut’s fanboys are so upset about this? He’s massively overperformed Özil for years now, and apparently we’re not allowed to criticise a player’s salary..
You and and your bum squad never learn do you? You were doing this when Emery was going on his bum unbeaten run, look how that ended for you?

You and your bum squad also hyped up Luiz. Constantly collecting L’s.
 

Trilly

Hates A-M, Saka, Arteta and You
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Country: England
Next season Özil is gone. £18.2M a year completely freed up. If we got Coutinho for a year at 15m including wages and he doesnt work its fine. Next year you go big for a proper creative player at 45M+ and properly replace Mesut. Now surely that's better than buying a 50/50 player outright to potentially be stuck with him.
Agree with this logic, it’s just that nobody trusts the club at the moment.

I have to admit that Buendia is still a risky signing, he passes the stats and eye test but it always makes me a little nervous when none of the big clubs are linked to a player.

I’d rather do Coutinho for one year then go all out for an attacking mid next year (or even Coutinho if he does well) than shop in that ~30M bracket. We really haven’t done well when shopping in that price range, it makes me nervous.
 

truth_hurts

but Holding’s hair transplant was painless
So Beundia would be a great stat DNA signing? That's what I'm getting from this. As stated I like him, but I would be much more excited by Coutinho.

Özil stopped caring, Mkhi didn't meet expectations, maybe 3rd time lucky with Coutinho.
 

Trilly

Hates A-M, Saka, Arteta and You
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Country: England
Also two failed transfers on paper looks bad but when one of those clubs is Barca it really isn’t something you should hold against a player for obvious reasons.
 

tap-in

Nothing Wrong With Me
Ceballos or Xhaka would work as the DLP. Partey the engine and then we would need some final third magic hence the links to Coutinho. Ceballos does a good defensive job so paired with Partey it would be nice.

The loan fee for Coutinho seems set at £8M and the wages at 120k a week for a season is another £5.7M. So overall taking him for a season would cost £14M and with Coutinho, even if its against poorer opposition you are guaranteed goals and assists from midfield.

@14Henry With Buendia you aren't guaranteed anything. You'd pay between 20-30M to be potentially stuck with the guy when signed.

People who are clammouring for fairly average creative players for 15-30M need to ask themselves this...

Next season Özil is gone. £18.2M a year completely freed up. If we got Coutinho for a year at 15m including wages and he doesnt work its fine. Next year you go big for a proper creative player at 45M+ and properly replace Mesut. Now surely that's better than buying a 50/50 player outright to potentially be stuck with him.

I get what you're saying but a poster made a good point about missing out on Maddision, Grealish etc what if Buendia goes somewhere else and is a £50m player in a years time? I'm undecided on Coutinho myself, I feel building is better but he could help get us top 4, then we are in a better position to buy top players.
 

Tir Na Nog

Changes Opinion Every 5 Minutes

Country: Ireland
So Beundia would be a great stat DNA signing? That's what I'm getting from this. As stated I like him, but I would be much more excited by Coutinho.

Özil stopped caring, Mkhi didn't meet expectations, maybe 3rd time lucky with Coutinho

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Kingslayer

Forza Milan
As much as I'd like to hate on Raúl "Three Fideuá's A Day" Sanllehí and his team of equally fat superagent ****s, I imagine Coutinho is the choice because either Liverpool or City (Liverpool has been rumoured in the past, City well their scouting team will be very aware of him/Agüero factor) is ahead in the line for Buendía and Coutinho represents a cheaper option paying his subsidized wages + loan fee than paying what it takes for Buendía.

Currently the teams strongest linked to Buendia are just-promoted Leeds United and just-scraped-it-out-of-relegation-thanks-to-beating-us Aston Villa.
 

lomekian

Essays are my thing
We arent going to agree on this transfer. Going round in circles. You want Coutinho based on 18 months football in one of the best teams in the league ( at the time) I want us to go in a different direction and go down the Leciester route identifying talent before it becomes blatantly obvious.

Buendia moves to Leciester and steps up we are going to be looking back thinking again Arsenal went for the name.

Coutinho didnt fit at Barcelona and gave up. Weak mentality.

Went to Bayern and they dont want anything to do with him.

Why do you think that is? No top team wants him. So now hes looking at another place to make a few quid and stay relevant.

Dont go down the route that no big team needs him. If he is so good every team needs him. Hes finished as a football. Hes walked away from a project and seen it backfire in his face. He may have won titles but those teams would have won without him. Liverpool thrived when he left. Says more than anything.

People thought Bergkamp had been found out in his spell at Inter. Half of Europe thought Overmars was finished. No one thought Petit was much beyond an average full back.

Why don't Bayern want Coutinho? Because they don't want to spunk £75m ish + £250k p/w on a player who's best position they don't really play and they have more dynamic an effective players for their system in the system they do play.

Barca? No idea why they bought him bar ego. Was never going to be a good fit there. Doesn't play Barca football, and the areas in which he's most effective compress space for Messi. But then Barca's transfer policy for the last 4-5 years has been a disasterclass. If Messi left tomorrow, they'd be struggling to qualify for Europe.

Ultimately, if this deal happens, our judgement of it will be dependent on loan fee and wage contribution. For all the speculation, we have no idea of figures.

Sure as hell though we need someone experienced that can play in the attacking half, so we aren't putting all our eggs in the ESR basket. For this club, the absolute priority is to try to get back to comfortable EL or CL football asap, and while he's not likely a title winning player, Coutinho represents a more likely match winning contributor AT THIS STAGE than Buendia.

As someone else has said, between our centre backs and Özil, we are currently on the hook for big wages that will expire in 2021, so with the great crop of kids (including Saliba now) at the club, the immediate priority is augmenting the first team with guys who can make a significant contribution while costing as little as possible. We can complain about paying Coutinho's wages for no long term return, but everyone else has wages too. Even Buendia would cost 3-5m in wages on top of his fee, and despite being a stats darling, I see him less likely to be a long term solution for the club than ESR, as his stats are somewhat inflated by his role in the team.

Would I complain if we signed Buendia for £25m or less? Not in isolation, because he has some qualities we lack and looks tactically flexible. But everything we do can only be judged in the context of what else we do, due to limitations. Accountancy rules make loaning Coutinho easier to juggle, so gives us a little more freedom. And this squad desperately needs someone with a goal threat from distance.

Its also entirely possible Coutinho is our no dosh back up plan
 

lomekian

Essays are my thing
Could he not have said....I will work harder at Barcelona and make you change your mind? Could he not have made sure everytime he was on the pitch he played so well that it was impossible to drop him.

Theres been many players who weren't fancied and turned it around. Giroud was on his way out of Chelsea in January only they could get another in. He could turn out to be their saviour. Been brilliant in run in and who knows today.

Aguero was dropped by Pep. Was told. You play my way or you are on the bench. He took on board and played the way Pep wanted.

Barcelona arent telling a 120m signing after one year hes not needed unless he isnt doing the business.

1) Giroud's wife doesn't want to leave London.
2) Giroud still tried to leave but it fell through
3) Giroud didn't have the option of trying to win the Champions League with Bayern.

I mean how long did Giroud stick around to compete with Laca and Auba? He asked to leave as soon as we were in discussions with the latter.

Aguero is one of the best strikers in the world, playing for the richest club in the world for one of the 3 best respected coaches in the world, and has been at City for years AND only had 1 player even competing with him in his position. And City didn't want to sell him. It would have taken monumental stupidity for him to leave.

Coutinho was put on the transfer list after they spunked 120m Euros on the guy they wanted all along to replace him.
 

lomekian

Essays are my thing
Not sure. I'm just basing it on the rumour of a swap plus us paying Barcelona 9m. We get the raw end there. Unless that 9m means we dont take on any of his wages. Even then its pants.

Ideally we sell Guendouzi separately for a fee, a big one at that. But Barcelona arent exactly coming down with money. They done the accounting trick with Arthur and I believe they cancelled their buy back on Cucurella to get a smaller fee paid early to them.
I think its Guendouzi +£9m for a permanent Coutinho transfer, which is fair enough if they retain wages. The other rumour is £10m loan fee +50% wages. Barca are even more desperate for cash than us, as are Real, so we don't need to hurry.
 

Bloodbather

Established Member

Country: Turkey
Wtf is wrong with footballers of this age? Does some of our kids make a fool of them self on tiktok etc. 100% backs Trump on this. Shut this down please.

I'm not into it either, but acting silly for fun is the point of it. It's a bit ridiculous that we expect young footballers to put on a rigid, serious façade at all times. It's not that deep. Bit annoying, sure, but nothing to get upset about.

Also, Trump looking to shut down TikTok has nothing to do with the silliness. It's because it's China-based. Part of the larger shut down against Chinese companies holding data - Huawei was included as well.
 

Sebastes

Statbomb Merchant
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Country: Sweden
And how do you see that translating to the midfield three that we play?
Well, if he was the first one ever to from a two-man central midfield to a three then maybe, just maybe, your point would have some bearing. Most players can play a couple of different positions and when the only change is going from playing defensive cm to dm, or maybe lcm/rcm in a three then it sort of doesn’t apply. He made the transition from RB to CM quite brilliantly
 

scytheavatar

Established Member
Not sure. I'm just basing it on the rumour of a swap plus us paying Barcelona 9m. We get the raw end there. Unless that 9m means we dont take on any of his wages. Even then its pants.

Guendouzi is a 30m player at best (personally I would argue he's not worth more than 20m which apparently gets you Ceballos)..... this swap deal makes Coutinho the biggest flop in football transfer history. Barca would have thrown 80 million into the drain because of him. We would be insane not to take that deal if Barca really offered it to us. But there's little chance of that deal happening cause Barca needs money and cashing in on Coutinho is far easier than doing so for someone like Dembele.
 
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