Mesut Özil: Think This Might Be It For Me(sut)

[Furious]

Where is the clamour to defend Guendouzi? All we’ve got on him is rumours that he laughed behind Arteta’s back or something... oh and the spat with a Brighton player?

small hint:

Matteo Guendouzi (Out)

 

[Jury]

small hint:

Matteo Guendouzi (Out)

Yeah, like, before his loan?

 

[Furious]

Yeah, like, before his loan?

? Thread starts in May. Literally the first post defends him. It's a link btw.

 

[amigo]

Apart from all the underlying reasons being bandied - football, money, and the pay cut refusal, to me it seems that it must be some kind of severe antagonistic dispute with management. (We saw how Guendouzi was also frozen out.) I would say guess some kind of perceived insubordination has happened where Özil has refused to back down and the club wants to make an example of him. Probably he has crossed a line that is deemed too far. Also there may be financial considerations, where if he makes even one appearance it means he gets a substantial amount more than if he makes none at all. Otherwise it makes no sense not to use him at all. We pay him so much and he is not a terrible footballer.

 

[drippin]

Apart from all the underlying reasons being bandied - football, money, and the pay cut refusal, to me it seems that it must be some kind of severe antagonistic dispute with management. (We saw how Guendouzi was also frozen out.) I would say guess some kind of perceived insubordination has happened where Özil has refused to back down and the club wants to make an example of him. Probably he has crossed a line that is deemed too far. Also there may be financial considerations, where if he makes even one appearance it means he gets a substantial amount more than if he makes none at all. Otherwise it makes no sense not to use him at all. We pay him so much and he is not a terrible footballer.

Finally someone answers at least somehow the clear questions I put forward.

That makes some sense in addition that Arteta might not see him giving much more value on the field for his tactics as some other players in our squad. Or this and other reasons together.

 

[Finesse]

Dunno, maybe you didn't read my posts thoroughly?

I knew you couldn't answer that very logical question and so skipped it, and then claimed I lost the argument. Calling it banal is a natural reaction when you are lost for words.

It is very clear that two different managers won't sabotage their careers in this way for nothing. Why would they do it?

Also Kroenke is a business man, and surely he doesn't want to lose £350k per week with zero return for money. Explain this. Why would he want to spend so much money for Aouar if he had possibility to use Özil instead for "free"?

These two points make it very clear that the problem lies much more with Özil.

Come back with a better reply. Özil played for more than 2 managers and will play for more before he stops. You cannot base your analogy on only 2. Rethink it and return!

Kroenke is not the Team Manager. He has employed a team Manager to make sure that does not happen.

Talking about Aouar, we missed on him because of our approach to team matters. Anecdote ! I used to speak to Lauren years back and he talked about dressing room issues at Arsenal which I cannot mention for obvious reasons. They were solved no matter what to maintain team cohesion and retain the value of the player/club etc. Özil is a diva? Then you have to look at RVP. I speak to Song , you would not believe things that happened behind the glamour we saw. Yet they solved it for the club's advantage. Despite RVP's off the field antics he was groomed, nurtured and he became a captain for this club. That is man management. Listen to his latest interview on how Arsenal shaped him. Back to Aouar , if we handled the Douzi matter better we would not have devalued him so much he was rejected by everyone. Atletico , Lyon , etc..You ostracize a player for months and then value him at 30M plus for a player and money offer for Partey and Aouar ? COMICAL.....These clubs just laughed off our offers!

We lost on Aouar because we based our transfer strategy on sales to purchase. Yet we devalued our prized asset. We were forced into selling Emi and cashed on his demand for first team football as a ploy to sell and get some funds in.

Kroenke intervened in the last minute after the Aouar deal failed ( unable to match Lyon's price despite personal terms agreed etc ) to bankroll Partey's deal. After we woefully failed and miscalculated our player sales.

Again this is me , being an objective fan of this club. We should manage player issues better to keep their value and sell away.

Özil offers to pay the mascot's salary. The human in some see a family's bread winner assisted in this very tough times of a global pandemic. The cynic is some see shots thrown at the club. Decide who you want to be.

 

[Jury]

? Thread starts in May. Literally the first post defends him. It's a link btw.

There is having an opinion on whether he’s been fairly treated or not and then there is a certain level of “defending”. The unacceptable level, shall we say? Anyway posts have been deleted, it’s been acknowledged it was unacceptable to suggest such bs so all is fine and well

 

[Furious]

There is having an opinion on whether he’s been fairly treated or not and then there is a certain level of “defending”. The unacceptable level, shall we say? Anyway posts have been deleted, it’s been acknowledged it was unacceptable to suggest such bs so all is fine and well

100 pages, dig deep, I'm sure you'll find something.

 

[drippin]

Come back with a better reply. Özil played for more than 2 managers and will play for more before he stops. You cannot base your analogy on only 2. Rethink it and return!

You still didn't answer it because you can't. Just blaim me for "bad reply".

Özil didn't have these kind of problems before his big contract here. It's a straw man argument trying to divert the attention from relevant questions I put forward.

 

[Macho]

lmao Özil's tweet has descended this thread to chaos once again without stepping foot on the pitch.

To clarify, I have no agenda (I think anyways)- I hate that both Özil and the club embarrasses us at times but this is the era we are in.

If there is any way he can make his way back onto the pitch this season - I hope he and the club comes together to make it happen. With that, my Özil quota has been fulfilled for the day.

 

[Jury]

And why did the club only leak Özil's name? Yet people want to say it's only for footballing reasons. Come on.

You see, it’s this one eyed view of the situation that does me… How do you know it wasn’t other players who leaked this; players on a lot less money or even youthteam players – anybody below board level, which has become strangely normal to assume?

 

[Pyromaniac]

To me, it's very clear that he was first frozen out for sporting reasons and later maybe other issues contributed, for which he has to take some blame.

He first played under Emery, later got benched. Because Emery was weak, he tried reintegrating him after the team didn't perform without him.
He played first under Ljungberg, got benched later.
And at first he played under Arteta and got benched after Lockdown. The Tifo piece on Arteta's actions and thought process during lockdown shows pretty clear, why he benched him. He tried to create an elite mentality. People say "oh, Özil was playing regularly before lockdown". He did, but he didn't contribute anything significant in numbers. Also with him, we always defended with a man less in midfield.
I think his stats in the past two seasons prove my point.

Özil not agreeing a wage cut, as the club's highest earner by far, was probably the tip of the ice berg for Arteta. Who is Özil to only accept a wage cut, if he gets more insight? The club obviously won't use the money on champaign and prostitutes. With a situation like Covid, we had to do everything to stay competitive. Even though I feel for every single person losing its job, we are not a charity organization.
All the PR he is spinning right now, is just self-righteous behavior. If he doesn't wanna move away from Arsenal on his big contract, because "he is settled in London with a young family" or whatever - fine, but then he should keep his frustration for not playing for himself. With Raul, the alleged head of the conspiration against him gone, it becomes just ridiculous and I can't believe how many Arsenal fans fall for it.

 

[A_G]

You see, it’s this one eyed view of the situation that does me… How do you know it wasn’t other players who leaked this; players on a lot less money or even youthteam players – anybody below board level, which has become strangely normal to assume?

Because John Cross broke the news that Özil was the one who didn't take a pay cut, and he's a mouthpiece for the club/board. He's always carrying water for them.

 

[Finesse]

Finally someone answers at least somehow the clear questions I put forward.

That makes some sense in addition that Arteta might not see him giving much more value on the field for his tactics as some other players in our squad. Or this and other reasons together.

Drippin , I am not an Özil fan boy or defending him. I am saying we can handle this better , get some football out of him and get value for the salary we begged to pay him. Yes we did.

Personally I think Arteta it doing what the hierarchy may have asked him. It is not clear why a player used precovid for some bizarre reasons stops giving 100% when we reopen. Really? The salary reduction issue did not go down well and he was frozen out by instructions to force him to look for a club and reduce the wage bill. Özil came out and stated clearly I am staying and it was a big statement for a player who is still under contract. Why would a player state they are staying when we don't see an interest from another club? It is simple, he was being pushed out technically to force his hands on a move , so we could save on the wage bill.

Since when does player commitment and performance be solely placed on training form? If he is useful at training ground for the team tactics , drills etc then he can fit into a Caraboa team. Else why does Arteta allow players giving less than 120% to train with his players who give more ? Is that not a contradiction?

Call a spade spade. The club wanted him out and set out a strategy to do so. Problem is Özil is Özil. He does not go down without a fight. Who is losing out on the footballing and financial side? The club and fans. Hence we can manage this well and get what we want from the football and retain value from the salary we pay him.

Same with Douzi , ignore his antics , keep him in the team , bench him , keep him sweet , sell him in the summer for 30-35M and you could have funded Aouar purchase. We win ! Then you set a marker. If you dont comply , we get you out when the window opens. Why say if you dont comply , we freeze you and when the window opens, ooops we cant sell you....We loan you for a year. You return with a year on your deal. Zero value. You go away again after a year fore free. Then we start posting losses here and there.

 

[drippin]

Drippin , I am not an Özil fan boy or defending him. I am saying we can handle this better , get some football out of him and get value for the salary we begged to pay him. Yes we did.

Personally I think Arteta it doing what the hierarchy may have asked him. It is not clear why a player used precovid for some bizarre reasons stops giving 100% when we reopen. Really? The salary reduction issue did not go down well and he was frozen out by instructions to force him to look for a club and reduce the wage bill. Özil came out and stated clearly I am staying and it was a big statement for a player who is still under contract. Why would a player state they are staying when we don't see an interest from another club? It is simple, he was being pushed out technically to force his hands on a move , so we could save on the wage bill.

Since when does player commitment and performance be solely placed on training form? If he is useful at training ground for the team tactics , drills etc then he can fit into a Caraboa team. Else why does Arteta allow players giving less than 120% to train with his players who give more ? Is that not a contradiction?

Call a spade spade. The club wanted him out and set out a strategy to do so. Problem is Özil is Özil. He does not go down without a fight. Who is losing out on the footballing and financial side? The club and fans. Hence we can manage this well and get what we want from the football and retain value from the salary we pay him.

Same with Douzi , ignore his antics , keep him in the team , bench him , keep him sweet , sell him in the summer for 30-35M and you could have funded Aouar purchase. We win ! Then you set a marker. If you dont comply , we get you out when the window opens. Why say if you dont comply , we freeze you and when the window opens, ooops we cant sell you....We loan you for a year. You return with a year on your deal. Zero value. You go away again after a year fore free. Then we start posting losses here and there.

You're stating it as a 100 % fact that the reason for keeping him out of the squad is forcing him out. None of us can know what the reasons are. I bet there are countless reasons.

To me it seems Arteta doesn't value his contribution in training/field over other players for his tactics. He has given AMN a lot of game time after keeping him out. He gives chances to those who show they deserve them.

Arteta is surely foremost interested in results so he doesn't get sacked. It isn't even always about performances, but the overall effect to the team when you include a player who is not "120 % committed", meaning they can poison the dressing room with their sulking or anything like that.

So the footballing side can sometimes mean that you lose on the "money side", but overall still the intent is to succeed on the playing field and as so it will boost the income of the club.

If some players can't be in harmony with the manager, then the players will be gone, rather than the manager who is giving us good results even without those players.

Look at what Mourinho (and he hasn't even performed very well as a manager there) is doing with Alli in Tottenham. It isn't always easy, and advising and blaiming from outside without knowing the details is prime captain hindsight stuff.

 

[Lidl_Reed]

OK?

But I don't live in England, neither does he.

Good, the Home Office is doing their job then

 

[Chaoz_Enigma]

At this stage I am sure everyone here just wants Either

1) Arteta manage to convince the hell out of Özil and get him to shape and form

or

2) Özil to leave as quickly as possible.

I still hope its the former. But if the player does not make our manager to trust him then off he goes. Of course I prefer the former so that Özil himself does not become a thorn in our PR and let the player himself can contribute on the pitch or at least on the training pitch.

 

[Artisan]

You see, it’s this one eyed view of the situation that does me… How do you know it wasn’t other players who leaked this; players on a lot less money or even youthteam players – anybody below board level, which has become strangely normal to assume?

Yeah maybe it was also the players who leaked negative stories about Sven, Kos, Auba and anyone else the management has had issues with at one point or another...

 

[Chaoz_Enigma]

You're stating it as a 100 % fact that the reason for keeping him out of the squad is forcing him out. None of us can know what the reasons are. I bet there are countless reasons.

To me it seems Arteta doesn't value his contribution in training/field over other players for his tactics. He has given AMN a lot of game time after keeping him out. He gives chances to those who show they deserve them.

Arteta is surely foremost interested in results so he doesn't get sacked. It isn't even always about performances, but the overall effect to the team when you include a player who is not "120 % committed", meaning they can poison the dressing room with their sulking or anything like that.

So the footballing side can sometimes mean that you lose on the "money side", but overall still the intent is to succeed on the playing field and as so it will boost the income of the club.

If some players can't be in harmony with the manager, then the players will be gone, rather than the manager who is giving us good results even without those players.

Look at what Mourinho (and he hasn't even performed very well as a manager there) is doing with Alli in Tottenham. It isn't always easy, and advising and blaiming from outside without knowing the details is prime captain hindsight stuff.

I agree and in my opinion the most important thing is that we get results. If it means Özil not playing will get us optimal results, I am sure the tune in the media and in AM will somehow stifle the bad PR around Özil's wage and etc.

 

[A_G]

AM body language experts needed