• ! ! ! IMPORTANT MESSAGE ! ! !

    Discussions about police investigations

    In light of recent developments about a player from Premier League being arrested and until there is an official announcement, ALL users should refrain from discussing or speculating about situations around personal off-pitch matters related to any Arsenal player. This is to protect you and the forum.

    Users who disregard this reminder will be issued warnings and their posts will get deleted from public.

Backpass FC

Big Poppa

Established Member
Trusted ⭐

Country: USA

Player:Saliba
Unfortunately this is Tiki Taka. Low risk possession play even in opponents' half to not risk a counter.
Even elite Barca was ultra boring to watch for huge periods, us? Every game a snoozefest now.

“I loathe all that passing for the sake of it", stating, "Barça didn't do tiki-taka!", adding, "You have to pass the ball with a clear intention, with the aim of making it into the opposition's goal"

Pep Guardiola
 

Lidl_Reed

Wants a new name
Imagine calling what we do Tiki Taka. We play safe passes because we're afraid to lose possession. There isn't a single Pep team that does that. We then cross the ball if we manage to get it high up the pitch ever, the exact opposite of Pep's approach.

It's sterile possession ball there only for us to not lose the ball and be countered on, that's the "magic" on which Arteta has fixed our defence.
 

Bloodbather

Established Member

Country: Turkey
I'll go out on a limb and say Guardiola and his minions have done more to damage football as a spectator sport than anything else in the past 15 years.

Yeah, there was a beauty in watching Messi, Xavi, Iniesta playing that way. Even with that great side and with some of the greatest players ever, it got boring to watch, quick.

Agree with the point about Guardiola's Barcelona and his style being boring. Aside from the one touch pass team goals they scored from time to time, prime Barcelona were pretty boring to watch on a 90 minute basis. Spain were even more boring, because they didn't have Messi to produce moments of individual brilliance. Never liked their style of play, though I did respect it. I think the first statement is a bit of a reach, though, few teams can even dare to emulate what Pep's Barcelona teams did. Some teams do play varieties of possession football, but it's always different passing-wise because they lack the quality.

I certainly don't want to see the likes of Xhaka, Elneny, AMN etc playing a knock off 3rd rate tribute act of it.

Our team is one example, but such examples are rare. Most managers enthusiastic about emulating Pep's possession play realize after some point that their personnel isn't up to snuff and abandon the project.

The games got too nerdy and over coached.

Can't agree with this line of thinking, I think it's a shallow take. There's no such thing as "too nerdy", only wrong interpretations and applications. It's not like we only have one approach to the game because of the "nerdiness" involved. The game is more tactically varied than it has ever been, and it makes for interesting chess matches out there. Just in this PL season alone you have Klopp's gegenpressing, Guardiola's possession play, Mourinho's sit deep and counter-attack style, Solskjær's "through the middle towards the wings" 4-2-3-1, Rodgers' and Ancelotti's counter-attacking 4-3-3s, Bielsa's advanced 4-5-1, Hasenhüttl's set piece centered 4-2-2-2, Potter's 3-4-3, Dyche's oldschool British 4-4-2 hoofball and so on. Each of those tactics call for different personnel and allow us to see different attributes from the players.

The very best Arsenal teams weren't playing anything like a Guardiola's side. We were a hybrid but much more of a counter attacking team than anything else. Frequently 15-20 seconds from the ball being in Jen's hand till Henry burying it.

That's true. We were a team that approached set plays in a direct manner in addition to the counter attacks. It's not like that style of play has perished from football, though, both finalists in the Champions League last season essentially played with the same approach.
 

Football Manager

Copy & Paste Merchant
Agree with the point about Guardiola's Barcelona and his style being boring. Aside from the one touch pass team goals they scored from time to time, prime Barcelona were pretty boring to watch on a 90 minute basis. Spain were even more boring, because they didn't have Messi to produce moments of individual brilliance. Never liked their style of play, though I did respect it. I think the first statement is a bit of a reach, though, few teams can even dare to emulate what Pep's Barcelona teams did. Some teams do play varieties of possession football, but it's always different passing-wise because they lack the quality.



Our team is one example, but such examples are rare. Most managers enthusiastic about emulating Pep's possession play realize after some point that their personnel isn't up to snuff and abandon the project.



Can't agree with this line of thinking, I think it's a shallow take. There's no such thing as "too nerdy", only wrong interpretations and applications. It's not like we only have one approach to the game because of the "nerdiness" involved. The game is more tactically varied than it has ever been, and it makes for interesting chess matches out there. Just in this PL season alone you have Klopp's gegenpressing, Guardiola's possession play, Mourinho's sit deep and counter-attack style, Solskjær's "through the middle towards the wings" 4-2-3-1, Rodgers' and Ancelotti's counter-attacking 4-3-3s, Bielsa's advanced 4-5-1, Hasenhüttl's set piece centered 4-2-2-2, Potter's 3-4-3, Dyche's oldschool British 4-4-2 hoofball and so on. Each of those tactics call for different personnel and allow us to see different attributes from the players.



That's true. We were a team that approached set plays in a direct manner in addition to the counter attacks. It's not like that style of play has perished from football, though, both finalists in the Champions League last season essentially played with the same approach.
Agree. It’s a great tactical battle/chess like game that involves great calculations.

If you understand what’s in green, you shouldn’t find pep’s teams boring. Because every passes before the goal has the purpose to create the final pass, they are the the build up of that. They are equally important because without the passes before, you won’t have the final pass.

I haven’t played video games for years but I’d give you an example. It’s like a game of Watch Dog, which you will have to take down the gangsters’ boss. The most exciting part is not when you execute the boss. The most exciting part is when you create a strategy to take down his people one by one, to distract the group and get his guards away from him. Every single move is equally important and you are step by step, closer and closer to the final boss.

Now back to football, each pass is like eliminating one gangster out of the way. Every-time you see a pass you would think: great, that’s correct, now the next step, right, and then the next step. ...until you open up a gap for the killer pass to happen, which it cuts through the opponent defence beautifully. Every passes are clever and thoughtful, they are preparation for the final pass. Without them, you won’t open up anything. So that’s why I don’t find those passes boring. They are not meaningless passes, their purpose is to open up gaps. They are smart and beautiful.
 
Last edited:

shoot for the top

Active Member
I have been in football my entire life, and I have never seen a topflight team with such negative football setup when it comes to breaking lines. Number of backpasses in situations where players have the option to take a risk and pass or drive the ball forward is beyond me. Xhaka is by far the worst in this segment but when You see rest of our team constantly doing this, then it must be a part of our game plan. This is for me one of the most obvious reason we have struggled so much in creating chances. I feel Arteta went for solidity in the back but directly influenced our forward plays and mechanisms making them inconsistent and really awful to watch. Worst thing is that when You have Auba and Pepe who should be feasting on open space and quick transition You are not only destroying our general style of play but also individual members of the team by not playing to their strenghts. Until we change this, we are going nowher no matter what players we play. Am I crazy or do others see this as well?

I think people see it and Arteta supporters call it " trusting the process".
 

Jack_the_boy

Definitely Not Manberg
When it’s done right Artetaball can be beautiful. But the problems we’re facing are ones we would also face under wengerball, or any beautiful passing football. Notably, players all over the pitch are constantly misplacing passes. Wengerball actually demanded more ambitious passing than what we’re doing, but we’re misplacing short and simple passes under little pressure, the first step to beautiful passing football, and what’s also a prerequisite under Wengerball.
Unless you want us to change completely and become a sit behind the ball, direct counterattacking team (which majority do not want), then Arteta’s approach is the right one, short passes are the basic of what we want to achieve and we’re lacking at that.

The system was changed from the counterattacking 3-4-3 of last season and the start of this season, a system not interested in keeping possession, and was poor at keeping possession, because fans were upset that it was boring. It was not “Guardiola football” at all. It changed to the present possession oriented football we’re seeing, but the same fans are complaining since we’re not good enough at it. They can’t make their mind up.
We should persist with the present system for now, continue to build the basics and foundations of the short passing game, because it is what suits our long term vision.
 
Last edited:

shoot for the top

Active Member
When it’s done right Artetaball can be beautiful. But the problems we’re facing are ones we would also face under wengerball, or any beautiful passing football. Notably, players all over the pitch are constantly misplacing passes. Wengerball actually demanded more ambitious passing than what we’re doing, but we’re misplacing short and simple passes under little pressure, the first step to beautiful passing football, and what’s also a prerequisite under Wengerball.
Unless you want us to change completely and become a sit behind the ball, direct counterattacking team (which majority do not want), then Arteta’s approach is the right one, short passes are the basic of what we want to achieve and we’re lacking at that.

The system was changed from the counterattacking 3-4-3 of last season and the start of this season, a system not interested in keeping possession, and was poor at keeping possession, because fans were upset that it was boring. It was not “Guardiola football” at all. It changed to the present possession oriented football we’re seeing, but the same fans are complaining since we’re not good enough at it. They can’t make their mind up.
We should persist with the present system for now, continue to build the basics and foundations of the short passing game, because it is what suits our long term vision.

If we aren't interested in keeping possession, why are we back passing so much? What logic is that?
 

Jack_the_boy

Definitely Not Manberg
If we aren't interested in keeping possession, why are we back passing so much? What logic is that?

Possession stats in the 3-4-3 don’t lie, it was appalling most of the time. It wasn’t conventional counter attacking football, Arteta was trying to get the team to sit behind the ball whilst playing out the back and look for quick transitions. The results last season can’t be argued with since it won the fa cup.

The alternative was the traditional sit behind the ball and play direct, lump it forward etc. That would’ve been far worse.
 

shoot for the top

Active Member
Possession stats in the 3-4-3 don’t lie, it was appalling most of the time. It wasn’t conventional counter attacking football, Arteta was trying to get the team to sit behind the ball whilst playing out the back and look for quick transitions. The results last season can’t be argued with since it won the fa cup.

You said he ISN'T trying to keep possession yet we are passing it sideways and backs more than ever. Do you understand how football works?
 

Jack_the_boy

Definitely Not Manberg
You said he ISN'T trying to keep possession yet we are passing it sideways and backs more than ever. Do you understand how football works?

I said he wasn’t trying to dominate possession in the 3-4-3, and the possession stats were poor. It changed now. The passing from and at the back hasn’t changed. Like I said, he’s trying to build the fundamentals and basics of a short passing game.
 

shoot for the top

Active Member
I said he wasn’t trying to dominate possession in the 3-4-3, and the possession stats were poor. It changed now. The passing from and at the back hasn’t changed. Like I said, he’s trying to build the fundamentals and basics of a short passing game.

It has always been sideways and backward. Even last season, just because we hit a couple of through balls to Auba, it doesn't mean we weren't doing that last season.
 

Jack_the_boy

Definitely Not Manberg
You won't even answer my question. Shows how much confidence you have in your responses.

I lost myself in the beauty of it that I was replaying it :lol:

To answer your question; no, the sideways passing doesn’t work against low blocks who don’t care to press, but low blocks are always hard to play against, even the best teams with the most creative players can struggle... see Liverpool against West Brom. You need a combination of talent, determination and luck to unlock them by scoring the first goal, which we don’t yet have.
 
Top Bottom