• ! ! ! IMPORTANT MESSAGE ! ! !

    Discussions about police investigations

    In light of recent developments about a player from Premier League being arrested and until there is an official announcement, ALL users should refrain from discussing or speculating about situations around personal off-pitch matters related to any Arsenal player. This is to protect you and the forum.

    Users who disregard this reminder will be issued warnings and their posts will get deleted from public.

Granit Xhaka: Swiss Army Knife or Blunt Tool?

Will Xhaka be here after the summer window?

  • Yes

    Votes: 38 55.1%
  • No

    Votes: 31 44.9%

  • Total voters
    69
  • Poll closed .
Status
Not open for further replies.

squallman

Still Pining for Wenger
Piece here on Xhaka, I don't like the crux of it but I don't disagree either. A lot of CMs are gonna leave this summer, we can't get rid of all of them, so there's a real possibility that Xhaka stays beyond the summer.

Question is what sort of CM we buy.

https://arseblog.com/2021/01/fight-for-your-right-to-partner-partey/

We can't?

Imagine if we had Silvestre, Senderos, Djourou, Squillaci and Koscielny as our CB options right now. Some people would be arguing that we have to keep Senderos because we can't sell all of our CBs
 

RacingPhoton

Established Member
Yeah, well I'm not arguing against Ceballos at all. I like him more than Xhaka. And they play different roles.

Jorginho has played 704 minutes in EPL, Xhaka has 1180 minutes. That's not half. And Xhaka has 1 through ball and Jorginho 2. Wow, amazing difference. Both have 0 big chances created.

You can't compare us to team like City and say Xhaka is so bad. It's a team sport.

Anyway your points here do not show that Xhaka's progressive passes are much worse than other players in that chart. Needs much more proof than Jorginho having 1 more through ball than Xhaka. :lol:

It looks like Hojbjerg for example has quite similar stats overall compared to Xhaka (there are some differences both ways, he has played 1620 minutes). And their team has been on much better form this season.

In that chart he has half the progressive passes.
With Jorginho, I took the stats in all EPL matches. Not just this season. 12 big chances created by each. 35 against 52 through balls in 145 vs 75 matches. Couldn't get minutes stats. I don't think it will make a huge difference here. So no. I am not making claims by a 1 through ball difference :lol:

Hojbjerg seems to be an interesting case. I didn't follow Sp**s matches that much. But it looks like his attacking stats are dire. He has decent defensive stats though. Even in his previous seasons, that seems to be the case. They are probably on a similar level.

If you want to compare mid-table teams and only for this season.
Ndidi easily beats Xhaka - 34 tackles and 87 recoveries in just 821 minutes
Ward Prowse - 34 tackles and 135 recoveries in 1620 minutes. Very marginally better than Xhaka here. But he has 4 assists to his name.
Doucoure - 33 tackles and 115 recoveries in 1450 minutes.
Neves - 44 tackles and 118 recoveries in 1300 minutes.

Xhaka's defensive stats are marginally better only against the likes of McGinn and Soucek. I guess both of them make up for it with attacking returns. Doesn't the fact that an Arsenal midfielder who is starting regularly for four years stacks these kind of stats against mid-table midfielders show why people are pissed off with him?
 

dashsnow17

Doesn’t Rate Any Of Our Attackers
Trusted ⭐
We can't?

Imagine if we had Silvestre, Senderos, Djourou, Squillaci and Koscielny as our CB options right now. Some people would be arguing that we have to keep Senderos because we can't sell all of our CBs

Well ok, say we get rid of all of them. That leaves us with Partey in midfield and no one else. You need at least 4 CMs to get through a season. Some say promote Azeez, well ok but he's basically never played senior football so I doubt that's feasible. So are you gonna spend the summer trying to buy like three CMs just to fill the squad up? There'll be other priorities too and a limited budget.

Don't get me wrong, Partey's the only one I want here, but you can't buy a whole new set of CMs in one summer.
 

drippin

Obsessed with "Mature Trusted Members"

Country: Finland
With Jorginho, I took the stats in all EPL matches. Not just this season. 12 big chances created by each. 35 against 52 through balls in 145 vs 75 matches. Couldn't get minutes stats. I don't think it will make a huge difference here. So no. I am not making claims by a 1 through ball difference :lol:

Hojbjerg seems to be an interesting case. I didn't follow Sp**s matches that much. But it looks like his attacking stats are dire. He has decent defensive stats though. Even in his previous seasons, that seems to be the case. They are probably on a similar level.

If you want to compare mid-table teams and only for this season.
Ndidi easily beats Xhaka - 34 tackles and 87 recoveries in just 821 minutes
Ward Prowse - 34 tackles and 135 recoveries in 1620 minutes. Very marginally better than Xhaka here. But he has 4 assists to his name.
Doucoure - 33 tackles and 115 recoveries in 1450 minutes.
Neves - 44 tackles and 118 recoveries in 1300 minutes.

Xhaka's defensive stats are marginally better only against the likes of McGinn and Soucek. I guess both of them make up for it with attacking returns. Doesn't the fact that an Arsenal midfielder who is starting regularly for four years stacks these kind of stats against mid-table midfielders show why people are pissed off with him?

Ah, okay. Well I can't bother to argue about Xhaka much more. :lol: Ward-Prowse takes corners? Anyway I'd rather Ndidi of course.

The point was that you try to claim Xhaka's progressive stats this season mean nothing, when they're shown to you.

Like dashsnow17 said, we can't overhaul the whole midfield in one summer. I'm fine with selling Xhaka if proper offer is received, but I'd much rather sell Elneny if Xhaka accepts a squad role. I have never said he should be a starter here.
 

Ash10

Chairman of the Bum Brigade
Ah, okay. Well I can't bother to argue about Xhaka much more. :lol: Ward-Prowse takes corners? Anyway I'd rather Ndidi of course.

The point was that you try to claim Xhaka's progressive stats this season mean nothing, when they're shown to you.

Like dashsnow17 said, we can't overhaul the whole midfield in one summer. I'm fine with selling Xhaka if proper offer is received, but I'd much rather sell Elneny if Xhaka accepts a squad role. I have never said he should be a starter here.
The problem is Xhaka is as delusional as his cultists & thinks himself to be elite judging from the way he acts. He will not accept a squad role that his ability merits & will throw a tantrum. Rather have Elneny who is content with being a squad player plus we won't be able to con some club to pay much for him
 

RacingPhoton

Established Member
Ah, okay. Well I can't bother to argue about Xhaka much more. :lol: Ward-Prowse takes corners? Anyway I'd rather Ndidi of course.

The point was that you try to claim Xhaka's progressive stats this season mean nothing, when they're shown to you.

Like dashsnow17 said, we can't overhaul the whole midfield in one summer. I'm fine with selling Xhaka if proper offer is received, but I'd much rather sell Elneny if Xhaka accepts a squad role. I have never said he should be a starter here.
For me, midfield is about partnership and getting the right balance. Cazorla and Coquelin was a beautiful partnership. Cazorla was strong in attacking while Coquelin was strong in defending. It's hard to achieve a balanced combination with Xhaka because he looks mediocre at both IMO. No wonder we never found a working midfield combination for the last 4 years. He showed good signs of attacking/defending on rare occasions. But nothing consistent because of his weaknesses we have discussed in this thread for years.

A midfielder who is good at both areas makes life so easy for his partner. Though early days, I think we found such a player in Partey. So we can get away with playing absolutely anyone next to him. I think Xhaka will start regularly for the rest of the season and I don't mind it at all. But if we want to get back to top 4 and be a competitive team again, we should find a better partner to Partey. I don't think Xhaka will be happy with a squad role though.
 

squallman

Still Pining for Wenger
Well ok, say we get rid of all of them. That leaves us with Partey in midfield and no one else. You need at least 4 CMs to get through a season. Some say promote Azeez, well ok but he's basically never played senior football so I doubt that's feasible. So are you gonna spend the summer trying to buy like three CMs just to fill the squad up? There'll be other priorities too and a limited budget.

Don't get me wrong, Partey's the only one I want here, but you can't buy a whole new set of CMs in one summer.

Okay, let's say we keep Xhaka and he makes a stupid mistake in the cup final that costs us or a stupid mistake in the last game of the league season that costs us a spot in the top 4.

What would we have gained by keeping him? You need 4 CMs, does that mean we should go out and buy 4 league 1 players and be done with it?

Football isn't just a numbers game, it is about quality as well. This argument isn't that different from Wenger's refusal to make mass upheaval to the squad because of "squad harmony". Only for the same players he kept on to let him down when it mattered the most, not to mention the longer they stayed the more their value dropped. "We can't sell Walcott because we have to get rid of Denilson etc." Nevermind the fact that Theo took up valuable squad space, missed a 1/4 of every season minimum and stunk out the joint half the time he did play.

I honestly want to know what we gain from keeping substandard players.

The executives earn a fortune and we should have a scouting network in place. Finding players is literally the only job some of them have and yet we're saying it's too much work for them to do, when they get hundred of thousands of pounds to do it if not millions?
 

drippin

Obsessed with "Mature Trusted Members"

Country: Finland
Okay, let's say we keep Xhaka and he makes a stupid mistake in the cup final that costs us or a stupid mistake in the last game of the league season that costs us a spot in the top 4.

What would we have gained by keeping him? You need 4 CMs, does that mean we should go out and buy 4 league 1 players and be done with it?

Football isn't just a numbers game, it is about quality as well. This argument isn't that different from Wenger's refusal to make mass upheaval to the squad because of "squad harmony". Only for the same players he kept on to let him down when it mattered the most, not to mention the longer they stayed the more their value dropped. "We can't sell Walcott because we have to get rid of Denilson etc." Nevermind the fact that Theo took up valuable squad space, missed a 1/4 of every season minimum and stunk out the joint half the time he did play.

I honestly want to know what we gain from keeping substandard players.

The executives earn a fortune and we should have a scouting network in place. Finding players is literally the only job some of them have and yet we're saying it's too much work for them to do, when they get hundred of thousands of pounds to do it if not millions?

Soon we have two loan midfielders from Real who play many games. Willock isn't ready at least yet, if ever. Elneny isn't good enough.

If there isn't a proper offer for Xhaka (and we don't have some amazing warchest), Xhaka needs to stay while we try to fill our other midfielders with more quality. Those two loanees need also a permanent replacement (Guendouzi an unlikely LANS).

Elneny has 1,5 years in contract, while Xhaka has 2,5 years. I hope no one is suggesting we renew Elneny.
 

Jack_the_boy

Definitely Not Manberg
This guy is gonna end up getting a testimonial here, time we all accept it ffs...we are never gonna get rid of him :lol:

Why would you want to? He is one of the league’s most progressive midfielders. Also excels at defensive responsibilities. They don’t get much better than Xhaka. Be proud of having a quality player instead of clamouring for the past. We used to have Alex Song and Denilson... now they stunk up the place.
 

Jack_the_boy

Definitely Not Manberg
Yet another great performance from Xhaka. Some beautiful passes to Bellerin. Gorgeous through ball to Lacazette. Absolutely saved us from conceding another 2 goals with last ditch perfectly timed tackles and interceptions.

As per usual, 0 credit given.
 

AberGooner

Established Member
Trusted ⭐

Country: Scotland

Player:Gabriel
Non existant today. He and Elneny offered the defence no protection and gave us no chance of playing out when we had the ball. Meant the CB's too often had to resort to playing long balls which Stephens and Bednarek ate up no problem.
 

Jack_the_boy

Definitely Not Manberg
Non existant today. He and Elneny offered the defence no protection and gave us no chance of playing out when we had the ball. Meant the CB's too often had to resort to playing long balls which Stephens and Bednarek ate up no problem.

No truth to this at all. He did more defensively than our centrebacks. Would have conceded more if it wasn’t for his last ditch defending. Had the most interceptions in the team too.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom