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Mikel Arteta: Top Of The Klopps

avenellroad

John Radford’s son
I've just watched 'highlights' of the Arsenal v City game and Arteta's post match interview is worrying for Arsenal fans in itself. It's accepted that 10th is ok - no-one has their knives out for Arteta this morning, people just seem to shrug their shoulders as if this is the norm now.

Arsenal, as things stand, just don't behave like a BIG club. Forget CL football anytime soon. Arteta has lowered expectations so much that a 1-0 loss is deemed as a good result because "at least it wasn't 4 or 5-0".

I'd be so frustrated if I was a season ticket holder when the fans start going back to the matches. Arsenal Football Club in 10th place and it's simply accepted by the fans and the media. If this was Man Utd in 10th, we'd be SLAUGHTERED by the press, opposition fans, our own fans etc etc etc. But at Arsenal, it's just another weekend, another bad result - midtable is fine because Arteta is building something. Building what though?

And I've said this before but the thing I find most strange is that Arteta isn't even an Arsenal legend. He was an average-good player who is more well known for his time at Everton than Arsenal. If you had Henry, Bergkamp, Adams or Wright as manager I'd get it. I'd understand the club and fans willing to give the young boss time and patience.

But Arteta. I don't get it. It's because he was mate's with Pep for a while at City. That's it - that's his qualification for managing one of the historically biggest clubs in England.

And I say 'historically' because to me, Arsenal aren't a big club anymore. When I was younger, I hated you lot. And that's because you were a threat. The Arsenal team with Pires, Henry, Vieria etc terrified me - they were a joy to watch. Flair, power, energy - they had everything.

Now I actually feel sorry for you. Arteta looks like he'd get blown away by a fart in the wind. He hasn't got the mentality to ever achieve anything with Arsenal as a manager.

That is the problem - the mediocrity is too deep set in the organisation that is Arsenal. We are working towards some sort of utopian future which only Arteta can see. We will waste years again, when this year is such a missed opportunity to get back into the Champions league

I would believe it if he got rid of the wasters like Bellerin and co, but he hasn't. The acceptance from Arteta that it needs to get worse before it gets better doesn't make sense when you are paying someone like Aubameyang £350k a week and spent however much on Partey.
 

scytheavatar

Established Member
And I've said this before but the thing I find most strange is that Arteta isn't even an Arsenal legend. He was an average-good player who is more well known for his time at Everton than Arsenal. If you had Henry, Bergkamp, Adams or Wright as manager I'd get it. I'd understand the club and fans willing to give the young boss time and patience.

There should be absolutely no reason why Arteta should be given more time and patience if he was an Arsenal legend................. Arteta the player is ancient history and it would be absurd to judge him as a manager on a different standard as what a non Arsenal player would have been judged. If Emery was an Arsenal legend and as important as Henry do you think he should have been given more time?
 

Rimaal

Mesmerised By Raccoons
Trusted ⭐
xG in such a short sample size isn't going to tell us much, especially when you have a real red herring game like Wolves in there (red cards really tilt xG, naturally). We'll have a clearer picture at the end of the season, but my eyes definitely like what they've seen tactically since ESR has come into the team.
Ugh, yes, as I said, you argue like Manberg. Fervent and radical in the search of confirming your pre-conceived doctrine.

Again, have a look at results in Europe from 2010-2018. It paints a very clear picture. And it's facts.


(For the sake of entirety: Rodgers and Moyes are enjoying typical over-achieving seasons. The xG table bears this out. These things tend to even out over the course of a full season--see Rodgers' Leicester last season--and if not, certainly over the course of two. It's been an ugly season in terms of results but I will be extremely surprised if we don't finish above at least one of West Ham and Leicester in the actual table, and probably both in the xG table. Feel free to bookmark this post. :) )

If it looks like a duck, moves like a duck, and quacks like a duck it's 99.9% sure not an elephant.

We play like midtable, we lose like midtable (18 games lost), and we have fans with the excuse making , crumb craving, mentality of a midtable club. We are midtable deservedly.
 

dashsnow17

Doesn’t Rate Any Of Our Attackers
Trusted ⭐
No ! Not a positive view. An objective view. Your questions just highlights you need objectivity with your analysis.

Ok, but why do we punt it long every time we kick off? We lose the ball every time. Why is that a thing, tell me that.
 

Rex Stone

Long live the fighters
Trusted ⭐

Country: Wales
And why are attacking set-pieces SO bad, when we specifically hired a set-piece coach? Our set-pieces are not good, like, objectively not good.

Might be on the takers tbf.

Haven’t had a good one since Özil. Should buy JWP and just play him RB for his set pieces haha.



Yeah but we’ve outperformed our xG against in that time by 5 which is definitely not sustainable.
 

Makingtrax

Worships in the house of Wenger 🙏
Trusted ⭐

Country: England

Player:Saliba
I said English teams have improved. Of course they have. Have a look. It's there for all to see.
I’ve had a look and the facts show you’ve contrived a story yet again.:lol: There’s been no improvement in English teams in the CL, it’s just gone up and down over the years like I said.

English teams making the Quarter Finals:
00/01 - 3
01/02 - 2
02/03 - 1
03/04 - 2
04/05 - 2
05/06 - 1
06/07 - 3
07/08 - 4
08/09 - 4
09/10 - 3
10/11 - 3
11/12 - 2
12/13 - 2
13/14 - 1
14/15 - 0
15/16 - 1
16/17 - 1
17/18 - 2
18/19 - 4
19/20 - 1
It’s a similar pattern for semis and finals. There’ s no statistical pattern of recent improvement, just your imagination. 18/19 was a good year of course but as you can see it’s nothing new, o7/08 was better where we had 3 teams in the semis and 2 in the final. 06/07 we 3 teams in semis and 1 in the final. The fact is 13 to 16 were lean years but it seems to have returned to normal. It clearly isn’t there for all to see, it’s just your imagination.
 

OnlyOne

‘Donkeys don’t have a peak, they remain useless’
Trusted ⭐

Country: England
For what it’s worth to Mikel I like what I see from our defence, think we’re 3/4th in the league with goals conceded, not sure on stats but it seems we face a lot less shots than we did with Emery. If leading by one or two I feel more comfortable we won’t concede.

Another thing I think that’s impressive is the fact it’s clear the team still back him, in our worst ever run since I started supporting Arsenal on the verge of relegation these guys still fight for him which is clear whereas emery was under the bus straightaway.

One more is it does feel like in the big games we’re much more competitive, beating United away, we’ve beaten Chelsea, Liverpool, City etc which is definitely something that I’d call improvement compared to last few years.

I’ll be Arteta out for the remainder of the season, but it’s clear he’s probably briefed to the team and the team know it that top 4 is done and Europa is what we need for CL. That was always the aim this season. I do believe that is what killed us in the last two seasons with Emery and Mikel is that we were always in both until it was too late and we failed in both because we’re not strong enough for that balance.

He needs to make Europa his baby, I only wanna see your guys like Partey start Europa or get fitness minutes in PL, use the remaining PL games to work on things for next year, ideally guys like a Ødegaard start every game **** it even Mat Ryan should get a gig.

Our Europa run will be nowhere near as hard as our FA Cup run but the stakes are certainly way way bigger.

He has a chance for redemption among the majority of the fan base.
 

yorch44

Commander of the Pelotudo Brigade
Sorry HairSpray mate I won't read all this. You know my thoughts already.
You didn't lose any important he only said bla bla bla... Arteta is a good manager and all the fault is from bad players. So for him, if we don't spend like City Arteta is not the one to blame.
 

dashsnow17

Doesn’t Rate Any Of Our Attackers
Trusted ⭐
Do you have any comparative figures/ stats on this?

No, we just seem to waste nearly every attacking set-piece opportunity. Pretty sure i'm not the only one who noticed that. It was fine before when we didn't care about it, but then we actively hired someone to work on it and we're still useless at attacking set-pieces.
 

mma

Member
Brought through Henderson and Greenwood and is promoting youth, got rid of the deadwood like Young, Fellaini, Sanchez etc, instilled a winning mentality throughout the squad again, targeted signings with the right mentality who will sweat blood for the club, highest goal scorers in the league, currently second in the league, qualified for the CL last season...

And many Utd fans, myself included - still don’t think Ole is the right manager for us because we have very high standards. An FA Cup win isn’t progression. We won the League Cup and Europa League a few years back but it proves nothing. Actual progress is measured by your league position.

As for Arteta, he wears expensive coats and used to put the cones out for Pep.
I agree with you on Arteta but this is laughable on Ole. You say winning a cup is not progress but bringing on young players who have not improved the team at all is progress?

Winning mentality? How? He had 13 opportunities to win a trophy since he got there, won 0. Lost 4 SFs in a row. Eliminated in CL GS. Qualified for CL last season only bc Chelsea and Leicester bottled their lead. 66pts is the lowest pt total in years for a CL finish.

He replaced Jose who got 82 pts in his last full season. To get there Ole would have to win 12 and draw 1 of the last 13 games of the season. He didn't improve United, others got worse. And he got as many penalties as Jose, LVG and Moyes TOGETHER in triple time less.

He also helped the Glazers reduce the wage bill to a laughable amount, resulting in your longest run without a trophy in over 30 years. He's a Glazer in all but name.

If Jose had stayed up until now and literally copy-paste everything Ole has done to Jose the reaction would not be this. Any other established manager in the world doing this would not be looked at favorably at all.
 

AbouCuéllar

Author of A-M essays 📚
I’ve had a look and the facts show you’ve contrived a story yet again.:lol: There’s been no improvement in English teams in the CL, it’s just gone up and down over the years like I said.

English teams making the Quarter Finals:
00/01 - 3
01/02 - 2
02/03 - 1
03/04 - 2
04/05 - 2
05/06 - 1
06/07 - 3
07/08 - 4
08/09 - 4
09/10 - 3
10/11 - 3
11/12 - 2
12/13 - 2
13/14 - 1
14/15 - 0
15/16 - 1
16/17 - 1
17/18 - 2
18/19 - 4
19/20 - 1
It’s a similar pattern for semis and finals. There’ s no statistical pattern of recent improvement, just your imagination. 18/19 was a good year of course but as you can see it’s nothing new, o7/08 was better where we had 3 teams in the semis and 2 in the final. 06/07 we 3 teams in semis and 1 in the final. The fact is 13 to 16 were lean years but it seems to have returned to normal. It clearly isn’t there for all to see, it’s just your imagination.

Beginning of decade:
3, 2, 2

Middle of the decade:
1, 0, 1, 1

End of decade:
2, 4, 1


Yehh...no statistical pattern there....


Anyways, those stats are off. There wasn't a single English quarter-finalist in 2012/13.

From 2012-17 (middle of the decade) English teams were woeful in Europe, both CL and EL, and Spanish teams were far better. Look it up. I'm not pulling it out of my arse. Surely I'm not the only one here who follows european football? :) This was a widely commented phenomenon in Europe.

I'm not just making things up, lol. Going into the 12-13 CL England had a coefficient of 85.785, Spain 82.329, Germany 69.436. Going into the 17-18 CL:

Spain: 105.713
Germany: 80.177
England: 76.284

Come back to me when you are ready to stop ignoring actual facts and manipulating reality and willing to discuss in an honest fashion. :)
 

AbouCuéllar

Author of A-M essays 📚
12/13
CL
England: 2 teams in round of 16 (eliminated)
Spain: 4 teams in round of 16, 3 teams in quarter-finals, 2 teams in semifinals

EL
England: 4 in R16, 2 quarterfinals, winner Chelsea
Spain: 1 in R16

13/14
CL
England: 4 in R16, 2 in QF, 1 in semis
Spain: 3 in R16, 3 in QF, 2 in semis, 2 in final, winner Madrid

EL
England: 1 in R16
Spain: 3 in R16 (drew each other), 2 in QF, 2 in semis, winner Sevilla

14/15
CL
England: 3 in R16 (eliminated)
Spain: 3 in QF (drew each other), 2 in semis, winner Barcelona

EL
England: 1 in R16
Spain: 2 in R16 (drew each other), 1 in QF, 1 in semis, winner Sevilla

15/16
CL
England: 3 in R16, 1 in QF, 1 in semis
Spain: 3 in R16, 3 in QF (drew each other), 2 in semifinals, 2 in final, winner Madrid

EL
England: 3 in R16, 1 in QF, 1 in semifinals, 1 in final
Spain: 4 in R16 (drew each other), 3 in QF (drew each other), 2 in semifinals, winner Sevilla

16/17
CL
England: 3 in R16, 1 in QF
Spain: 4 in R16, 3 in QF, 2 in semifinal (drew each other), winner Madrid

EL
England: 1 in R16, 1 in QF, 1 in SF, winner Manchester United
Spain: 1 in R16, 1 in QF, 1 in SF

17/18
CL
England: 4 in R16, 2 in QF (drew each other), 1 in SF, 1 in final
Spain: 3 in R16, 3 in QF, 1 in SF, winner Madrid

EL
England: 1 in R16, 1 in QF, 1 in SF, 1 in final
Spain: 2 in R16, 1 in QF, 1 in SF, winner Atlético

18/19
CL
England: 4 in R16, 4 in QF, 2 in SF, 2 in final, winner Liverpool
Spain: 3 in R16, 1 in QF, 1 in SF

EL
England: 2 in R16, 2 in QF, 2 in SF, 2 in final, winner Chelsea
Spain: 3 in R16, 2 in QF (drew each other), 1 in SF

19/20 (*pandemic effects worth nothing?)
CL
England: 4 in R16, 1 in QF
Spain: 4 in R16, 2 in QF

EL
England: 2 in R16, 2 in QF, 1 in semifinals, 1 in final
Spain: 2 in R16, 1 in QF, 1 in semifinals, winner Sevilla





Clear trend if there ever was one.

Facts:
*From 12-13 to 16-17, just once did all 4 teams from England qualify for the R16 in CL. Since, every single year.

*In that same time, England had 4 quarterfinalists to Spain's 14. Since, 7 to 6.

*In that same time, England had 2 semifinalists to Spain's 10. Since, 3 to 2.

*In that same time, England had 0 finalists to Spain's 6, and 4 winners. Since, 3 to 1, 1 winner each.


(EL evidence you can tally up yourself, but it presents a similar if not as brutally clear picture)
 
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