Nicolas Pepe: The Nutmeg Express!

[Macho]

Although he has been sidelined recently the month before that he showed progress, enough to suggest he could have a good season next season. You don’t buy players for 70m on five year contracts to only show something near their worth in their third season, was clearly a bad transfer, but it is what it is and I don’t see the club dumping him for a loss of 50m on his transfer fee. I think he has been sidelined recently in part because Arteta is set on pushing the case to buy Ødegaard this summer, and hence so many minutes going to Ødegaard, in order to convince our board as well as the player.

I dunno what you want me to say, he made progress at end of last season and he was dropped.

He had a good run of games this season and he was dropped.

He started every Europa group match scoring and assisting until the comp got serious now he’s not allowed to play.

The mad thing is people justify this somehow as well. He’s clearly not a bad player despite you calling him a bad signing, he has the 2nd highest goal involvement at the club despite limited minutes.

I’m tired of talking about him anyways, as long as Arteta is here he’s an impact sub. Arteta isn’t going anywhere so he needs to decide if he wants to sit there for 5 years or not.

 

[Iceman10]

I dunno what you want me to say, he made progress at end of last season and he was dropped.

He had a good run of games this season and he was dropped.

He started every Europa group match scoring and assisting until the comp got serious now he’s not allowed to play.

The mad thing is people justify this somehow as well. He’s clearly not a bad player despite you calling him a bad signing, he has the 2nd highest goal involvement at the club despite limited minutes.

I’m tired of talking about him anyways, as long as Arteta is here he’s an impact sub. Arteta isn’t going anywhere so he needs to decide if he wants to sit there for 5 years or not.

He might have some good stats but he started off with a bit of a low work rate, has improved that, and his one-footedness and lack of tight ball control was a problem for possession and a possible liability in allowing opposition counterattacks, although I am saying he’s getting better with this also.

I really don’t think anyone is disputing he was a bad signing (?). If you pay 70+ million for a player, that is for impact pretty much from the start, and his first season was part under Emery where Emery ended up sacked but might not have been if Sanllehi had spent the 70m+ instead on a player that would have come in and instantly performed. I really don’t think there is much dispute with that.

Could be wrong, but it seems our main disagreement is on his future at Arsenal. I still see him making a significant contribution next season, even under Arteta.. I can see development of his game even if his appearances have been limited of late.

 

[Macho]

He might have some good stats but he started off with a bit of a low work rate, has improved that, and his one-footedness and lack of tight ball control was a problem for possession and a possible liability in allowing opposition counterattacks, although I am saying he’s getting better with this also.

I really don’t think anyone is disputing he was a bad signing (?). If you pay 70+ million for a player, that is for impact pretty much from the start, and his first season was part under Emery where Emery ended up sacked but might not have been if Sanllehi had spent the 70m+ instead on a player that would have come in and instantly performed. I really don’t think there is much dispute with that.

Could be wrong, but it seems our main disagreement is on his future at Arsenal. I still see him making a significant contribution next season, even under Arteta.. I can see development of his game even if his appearances have been limited of late.

The club even said he was a signing for the future and the plan was always to develop him, so I disagree with no instant impact = flop, that’s your expectations.

To be frank it wasn’t even a bad season for him personally in the end, he ended it our 2nd best attacker. The market looked different when Pepe was signed also.

Emery, even if he had gotten Zaha or the club spent money on someone else he would have never have kept the job. He was held to completely different standards it wouldn’t have mattered in the long run.

I’m over it anyways, I think Ødegaard, ESR and Saka is probably the way forward.

Pepe is absolutely done at Arsenal regardless what he does. How this can be argued otherwise, God knows. He either gets sold for or loss or leaves on a free after being a peripheral figure, this is the only way it ends for him. He f*cked up coming here.

 

[Iceman10]

The club even said he was a signing for the future and the plan was always to develop him, so I disagree with no instant impact = flop, that’s your expectations.

To be frank it wasn’t even a bad season for him personally in the end, he ended it our 2nd best attacker. The market looked different when Pepe was signed also.

Emery, even if he had gotten Zaha or the club spent money on someone else he would have never have kept the job. He was held to different standards it wouldn’t have mattered in the long run.

I’m over it anyways, I think Ødegaard, ESR and Saka is probably the way forward.

Pepe is absolutely done at Arsenal regardless what he does. How this can be argued otherwise, God knows, he either gets sold for or loss or leaves on a free after being a peripheral figure, one of the two.

When it was said a player was “bought for the future” (your words) what that was really about was player ceiling where if Zaha was brought in his asset value would depreciate from there while Pepe’s asset value would hold and increase over time. I rather think you have misunderstood this thinking about asset value at the time. It was a bit flavour of the month thinking in football at the tine but was flawed. Even if a player’s peak asset value has passed if they are contributing to higher table positions, getting into CL football, then their value with gain of revenues outweighs asset depreciation anyway. Clearly though Pepe’s asset value has tumbled and it is going to take a lot even to get it back to 70m.

You say “Pepe is done at Arsenal” and “god only knows” how one can argue with that. Just to say, that isn’t really the way to exchange opinions. I don’t think we are too far off on some opinions but I rather think you are tying this all in with anger at Arteta to push a point and maybe my mistake was replying to that in the first place. I did point out in my first reply that Arteta is overplaying Ødegaard a bit to push the case to buy him, but long term into next season if we have bought Ødegaard I don’t see ESR/Saka/Ødegaard as a constant playing in the same starting line ups, instead two of the three each match. It is a bit unbalanced in terms of creative vs. goal scoring.

 

[Maybe]

The club even said he was a signing for the future and the plan was always to develop him, so I disagree with no instant impact = flop, that’s your expectations.

To be frank it wasn’t even a bad season for him personally in the end, he ended it our 2nd best attacker. The market looked different when Pepe was signed also.

Emery, even if he had gotten Zaha or the club spent money on someone else he would have never have kept the job. He was held to completely different standards it wouldn’t have mattered in the long run.

I’m over it anyways, I think Ødegaard, ESR and Saka is probably the way forward.

Pepe is absolutely done at Arsenal regardless what he does. How this can be argued otherwise, God knows. He either gets sold for or loss or leaves on a free after being a peripheral figure, this is the only way it ends for him. He f*cked up coming here.

While I agree with your post, I can't accept that this is the way going forward. I'd rather take a break from Arsenal until Arteta is gone than watching ESR on the left. Not only it will ruin our biggest investment (which is something Arteta is desperately trying to achieve), but it will also have a negative impact on ESR which is even a worse thing because we can't have another academy failure here.

It tells us that the manager would rather play a weakened team just because he doesn't like Pepe. ESR isn't a winger, never was and never will be.
Pepe is a winger though, our second best after Saka and I honestly don't care if he banged Arteta's wife, he has to play.

 

[Macho]

When it was said a player was “bought for the future” (your words) what that was really about was player ceiling where if Zaha was brought in his asset value would depreciate from there while Pepe’s asset value would hold and increase over time. I rather think you have misunderstood this thinking about asset value at the time.

What?
Yeah my comprehension skills, grasp on finances and player trajectory in football is just fine thanks, don’t ever do that again.

I said my bit on Pepe I’m at peace with it. I was rooting for him, it hasn’t worked out, it won’t work out - but that’s football. I get frustrated when people make out he’s a bad player or this is entirely his fault but that’s as far as it goes.

I’m not “angry” about Arteta at all. More resigned actually, it’s his club and he’s doing what he wants and people make excuses for him, I no longer care.

 

[Iceman10]

What?
Yeah my comprehension skills, grasp on finances and player trajectory in football are just fine thanks, don’t ever do that again.

I said my bit on Pepe I’m at peace with it. I was rooting for him, it hasn’t worked out, it won’t work out - but that’s football. I get frustrated when people make out he’s a bad player or this is entirely his fault but that’s as far as it goes.

I’m not “angry” about Arteta at all. More resigned actually, it’s his club and he’s doing what he wants and people make excuses for him, I no longer care.

My mistake was replying in the first place. I actually wasn’t arguing that much with your original post but instead was bringing up some nuance. Could be wrong, but I can feel your emotion and rage at Arteta, and that’s what I’ve run into. You know I’ve been pointing out the lack of selection of Pepe among others recently also, criticising Arteta on that also. I’m just saying right now it seems to be about Arteta trying his hardest to push the case to buy Ødegaard. That will be done either way by this summer. If Ødegaard has signed on I see two of ESR/Saka/Ødegaard playing with two of Auba/Laca/Martinelli/Pepe.

 

[Macho]

While I agree with your post, I can't accept that this is the way going forward. I'd rather take a break from Arsenal until Arteta is gone than watching ESR on the left. Not only it will ruin our biggest investment (which is something Arteta is desperately trying to achieve), but it will also have a negative impact on ESR which is even a worse thing because we can't have another academy failure here.

It tells us that the manager would rather play a weakened team just because he doesn't like Pepe. ESR isn't a winger, never was and never will be.
Pepe is a winger though, our second best after Saka and I honestly don't care if he banged Arteta's wife, he has to play.

I’m actually not mad at ESR on the left myself. I think fatigue is making him look worse than he is and I am aware he has played there at youth level.

It’s not optimal like you said, but he has enough in the toolbox for it to work. I think Arteta just wants all of his “best” players on the pitch.

I also think Pepe is easily our 2nd best winger at the club and I personally think he’s our 2nd best overall attacker at the club in terms of raw end product.

Even if you hold him back, he will finish the season on double digit goals and assists or just shy of it - which can’t be said for the majority of the squad even if you gave them unlimited minutes.

It is what it is though, even if it’s not obvious on the surface we can’t see everything that goes into picking the match day squad. As long as we stay in Europa technically Arteta is correct.

 

[Iceman10]

@Macho, I do see a future for Pepe at Arsenal and think he could have a good season next season, but I have not run into anyone else disputing Pepe for 70m wax a bad signing. I do think if a poll was run on that at A-M around 90% would say it was a bad signing, but I could be wrong on that. Pepe for 70m being a bad signing and Arteta not giving him as much match time as merited are not mutually incompatible points.

 

[Macho]

Could be wrong, but I can feel your emotion and rage at Arteta, and that’s what I’ve run into.

Yeah you’re wrong, you can check my response to our loss against City if was very laissez-faire. I also questioned people who were willing to go nuts if we got booted out of Europa.

I actually don’t even hate Arteta, he’s done good things. The arse wiping he’s been afforded is something I struggle with, but I’ve accepted if he’s here to stay regardless of what he does.

I do think if a poll was run on that at A-M around 90% would say it was a bad signing, but I could be wrong on that. Pepe for 70m being a bad signing and Arteta not giving him as much match time as merited are not mutually incompatible points.

There was one actually. Think he was voted the worst thing ever to happen to the club in recent times or something like that.

Tried to stick up for young Pepe, but the forum had spoken. Think it was this one:

https://arsenal-mania.com/forum/threads/you-get-one-do-over.34737/

 

[Finesse]

@Iceman10 like @Macho I do not have any issue with ESR on the LW or RW. He has the ability to play anywhere and that’s not his fault. He is clever and with the full back combination can carve open any defence. We have seen Rosicky , Nasri , Ramsey etc all deployed wide by Wenger. City is doing that today and even deploying full backs into the central zones.

ESR is playing there because Arteta is trying to build a fluid attack. Based on passing and movement and use of space. Therefore losing the ball in the build up is the ultimate crime. This is what is keeping Pepe out of the team. Willian too. This is what is keeping MO in the team. They have been progressively passing in the build up play and final third but they don’t lose it as much too. Even when it happens you can see what the intention was unlike Pepe who dribbles into a cul de sac and ignores the combination etc.

I am also of the impression you don’t want ESR and MO in the team together because it means Pepe may have to stay out. You seem to be more interested in the personnel deployed and not what the manager is trying to do. You are right I wish one of MO and ESR plays central but the problem is I see and accept what the manager is doing and why his hands are tied into deploying both. I would have no issue if Pepe or Willian could offer half of what Saka is offering and keep the LW spot.

Like @Macho I have stopped being angry with Arteta post Chelsea. He is changing it around. See our results from then and compare with the rest. Yes the league position is gloomy but down to the rot we had before. Is he improving ? Yes. Is he going to be sacked anytime soon ? No. I can also see what he is doing. It’s up to the players to meet him half way and deliver. The senior guys especially. We are being carried by a 19 and 20 year old. As much as Arteta is blamed for how badly Pepe or Martinelli or laca’s form , no one is giving him credit for Saka and ESR. I recall reading on here how starting Pepe against City was to throwing him into the deep end and to justify the decision to bench him. It was hilarious this was said as the teamsheet was announced. Those saying that knew Pepe would do nothing. He did nothing indeed. However 2 little boys despite the opposition always display better. Some even say Pepe needs a better LB Or RB to thrive. Unbelievable stuff for a 72m player. Saka is the 72m player.

Arteta has sorted the defence out. Some people don’t even understand how just yet. He wants to sort the attacking side and we must be very fluid in possession to be able to do that. You can see even Auba who used to be shocking playing central is not thriving as a 9 again. Scored 2 midweek and 2 disallowed. Meaning he is getting to the end of balls and making the runs very nicely.

 

[Iceman10]

@Iceman10 like @Macho I do not have any issue with ESR on the LW or RW. He has the ability to play anywhere and that’s not his fault. He is clever and with the full back combination can carve open any defence. We have seen Rosicky , Nasri , Ramsey etc all deployed wide by Wenger. City is doing that today and even deploying full backs into the central zones.

I believe ESR can play well on LW also, so there is no disagreement. If there is any concern it is just that Ødegaard in between Saka and ESR on the pitch reduces maximisation of the telepathic connection of ESR and Saka built over years but that’s just a temporary thing while Ødegaard is being accommodated.

I also think ESR is going to be a great player, but in my opinion he is about six months behind Saka in development, doesn’t have total consistency, and at times tiredness shows, and I think some are mistakenly overlooking all of that when they blame little dips on “being played out of position”.

I am also of the impression you don’t want ESR and MO in the team together because it means Pepe may have to stay out. You seem to be more interested in the personnel deployed and not what the manager is trying to do. You are right I wish one of MO and ESR plays central but the problem is I see and accept what the manager is doing and why his hands are tied into deploying both. I would have no issue if Pepe or Willian could offer half of what Saka is offering and keep the LW spot.

I’m open to the idea of a whole AM line of three players trying to feed a CF to convert, but I am not convinced yet. For balance I think one of these AM’s should be a quasi-striker, be it LW or RW, for balance between playmaking/creative and chance conversion. I just think it is better if one of these three players has ability to cut into the box and get on the end of chances or run and shoot directly on goal, and that’s where I think Laca/Martinelli/Pepe come in. In other words I still think two of ESR/Saka/Ødegaard should play with two of Auba/Laca/Martinelli/Pepe. Willian technically belongs with the first group of players, but as with most I just see him as redundant.

 

[Blood on the Tracks]

There's a difference between being a bad player and a bad signing.

Pepe fits into the latter category I think.

I don't for a second believe that Pepe was bought for £72m as a project player to be developed though. There's no way a club with fairly limited resources like Arsenal can afford splashing that amount of money on a project player.

 

[Iceman10]

There's a difference between being a bad player and a bad signing.

Pepe fits into the latter category I think.

I don't for a second believe that Pepe was bought for £72m as a project player to be developed though. There's no way a club with fairly limited resources like Arsenal can afford splashing that amount of money on a project player.

Yes, I fully agree with this. The price tag is not something to saddle him with but it is something to bring up in terms of club decisions. Like many here I do suspect there were some shenanigans going on with agent fees and kickbacks. There is no way to prove this, but Sanllehi has been shown the door, and I think most believe that was a case of accountability rightfully happening. This is all separate from Pepe performing to a level, and developing as a player, assimilating to PL football over time, albeit a bit slowly for me for that price tag.

 

[Jury]

‘Project player’ is a bit of a stretch for a 24 old. Most of the disappointment comes from the fact that many thought he was 100% ready to deliver.

Coaching staff at clubs will try address weaknesses and hone strengths, but they do that for every player; it doesn’t make them ‘projects’. Again, it’s this notion that Pepe is some special case when he wasn’t in France.

For comparison and to highlight inconsistency, Saliba is 19 , not 24 or 25, and the same bods are talking like he should be in our first team or squad, at least... Nobody talks of him as being a ‘project’

 

[hydrofluoric acid]

‘Project player’ is a bit of a stretch for a 24 old. Most of the disappointment comes from the fact that many thought he was 100% ready to deliver.

Coaching staff at clubs will try address weaknesses and hone strengths, but they do that for every player; it doesn’t make them ‘projects’. Again, it’s this notion that Pepe is some special case when he wasn’t in France.

For comparison and to highlight inconsistency, Saliba is 19 , not 24 or 25, and the same bods are talking like he should be in our first team or squad, at least... Nobody talks of him as being a ‘project’

25 years old. 26 in the summer.

 

[Garrincha]

to be fair he was playing in goal until 14

 

[hydrofluoric acid]

to be fair he was playing in goal until 14

So in outfield age, he is just 12. Still time!

 

[TakeChillPill]

So in outfield age, he is just 12. Still time!

As long as we keep investing in his development he'll be world class by the time he's 35

 

[CaseUteinberger]

As long as we keep investing in his development he'll be world class by the time he's 35

2031 here we come!