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Mikel Arteta: Top Of The Klopps

Makingtrax

Worships in the house of Wenger 🙏
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I'm not an Arsène hater--I love Arsène--and you are out of touch with reality, mate, only in England were people not amazed how long took to sack and what the hell Arsenal were doing not not sacking Wenger for so many years with a decadent project without progress. Again, graphs like this remove all context, like the fact that Arsenal has quite different possibilities recruitment wise being a CL club during that time and a massive club with huge draw to players, possibilities that don't apply for clubs like the ones you mention.
Same old waffle, no substance, no metrics, no understanding of the history or patterns in the premier league.
 

Makingtrax

Worships in the house of Wenger 🙏
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I believe this is common knowledge for most Arsenal fans, amount confirmed in the club accounts. Not all of this 17m was to Wenger, it was for him and his coaching staff, with him leaving one year before his latest contract was up.

Bear in mind also if I knew how much the separation for Emery was I would have stated that. I don’t think anyone can dispute changing managers with years left on their contracts costs a lot of money. OK for Abramovich, most recently to Lampard, but we don’t operate on the same sugar daddy oligarch financial doping club model, at least not yet.

Google: The Times Arsène Wenger 17 million

(Can’t get the link embedded in here properly for some reason)

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/...es-with-Arsène-wenger-and-his-staff-605bbcxzz
Arsenal have paid out next to nothing in manager payoffs over the years compared to other EPL clubs, some of whom have paid out huge sums on a regular basis. Arsène got his final year's salary with no extra compensation when he left in 2018.

Mourinho has earned £63.5m from sackings alone, probably due another sum from the Spuds soon. :lol:
 

Blood on the Tracks

AG's best friend, role model and mentor.
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It's not really hard to see why Arteta is being afforded more leeway than some previous managers. He's a novice manager.

The club obviously saw potential in Mikel and the fact he is a rookie manager would have been in baked into their expectation for him, at least in the short - medium term. You don't sack a guy you see as a long term investment, which the club obviously do see Arteta as, after 12-18 months unless he totally implodes.
 

Macho

In search of Pure Profit 💸
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Wish we would stop comparing Arsène and Arteta, tbh.
A lot of us are more than happy to but pro Arteta guys (not you) bring up Wenger's failings to prop him up then get shy when facts are presented.

We (royal we) hounded out our greatest manager and haven't touched Europe since, despite complaining about "only" being in Europe at the time.

This is what makes us a banter club and this is why we deserve everything we have seen this season. Atleast there's some that enjoy it more than before and find it strangely less embarrasing.
 

say yes

forum master baiter
It's not really hard to see why Arteta is being afforded more leeway than some previous managers. He's a novice manager.

The club obviously saw potential in Mikel and the fact he is a rookie manager would have been in baked into their expectation for him, at least in the short - medium term. You don't sack a guy you see as a long term investment, which the club obviously do see Arteta as, after 12-18 months unless he totally implodes.
Yep, exactly. Helps his case that the performances have been a lot better than results as well.

Only one of those is sustainable in the long-run. Very different situation to e.g. Emery, who I had given up on by this point.
 

AbouCuéllar

Author of A-M essays 📚
Same old waffle, no substance, no metrics, no understanding of the history or patterns in the premier league.

The understanding of the history and patterns of the premier league in the context of Europe is precisely what works strongly against your argument. As presented with the facts I presented you regarding English success in Europe over the past decade, which you completely ignored, as they suit your argument terribly.
 

say yes

forum master baiter
A lot of us are more than happy to but pro Arteta guys (not you) bring up Wenger's failings to prop him up then get shy when facts are presented.

We (royal we) hounded out our greatest manager and haven't touched Europe since, despite complaining about only being in Europe at the time.

This is what makes us a banter club and this is why we deserve everything we have seen this season.
Who brought up Wenger?

Think this name should be banned from this thread.
 

Macho

In search of Pure Profit 💸
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Who brought up Wenger?

Think this name should be banned from this thread.
I got loads on ignore so might have missed it, but I note @Dj_sds - saying xyz happened under Wenger and whatever.

Arteta has been here long enough and there is plenty to talk about without bringing up Wenger but it's inevitable. Likewise, if Arteta is the first manager to bring modern Europe success to the club Wenger will get dragged, it works both ways.
 

AbouCuéllar

Author of A-M essays 📚
Who brought up Wenger?

Think this name should be banned from this thread.
Yeah, fact is the people who rate Arteta are not the ones who are so obsessed with talking about Wenger (we know which ones that is), and when @Macho first said this it was in an argument with makingtrax where I literally hadn't mentioned Arteta once, lol. The comparison comes from the Wenger fanboys who can't accept any tint of grey in their assessment of his 20+ year reign.
 

say yes

forum master baiter
I got loads on ignore so might have missed it, but I note @Dj_sds - saying xyz happened under Wenger and whatever.

Arteta has been here long enough and there is plenty to talk about without bringing up Wenger but it's inevitable. Likewise, if Arteta is the first manager to bring modern Europe success to the club Wenger will get dragged, it works both ways.
Nah, I've checked and Wenger was brought into this thread on page 1353 by @Troopz who was complaining that Arteta was being judged on different standards to Wenger (i.e. too positively). You agreed with him on the same page:

I never looked at the team this summer and expected top 4 but you're right Arteta hasn't been judged the same at all.

Standards have definitely dipped to accommodate him and it's undeniable. I've given up though, winter last year was the time to sack him and a well run club would and we didn't. It is what it is.
That died down, and then MakingSweetSoulfulHouseTrax brought up big Wengz again on page 1355. All in response to people being (god forbid!) positive about Arsenal's current manager.

So no, it doesn't look like "pro-Arteta posters" are the ones who keep bringing Wenger up. Quite the opposite.
 
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Macho

In search of Pure Profit 💸
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Nah, I've checked and Wenger was brought into this thread on page 1353 by @Troopz who was complaining that Arteta was being judged on different standards to Wenger (i.e. too positively). You agreed with him on the same page:



Doesn't look like "pro-Arteta posters" are the ones who keep bringing Wenger up. Quite the opposite.
and where did I bring him up? My point also rings true with Emery. Arteta showed sackable form and isn't judged the same as other managers in the league let alone Wenger.

Standards have dropped, you don't need to mention you know who to say that. Before dj whoever mentioned Wenger people were talking about the new emojis and joking about ticket prices, so a bit of a reach tbh.

Either way, Arteta can do what he likes anyways this arguing is futile you just have to support or walk away there's nothing that can be done.
 

Finesse

Well-Known Member
Moving on, this is a great piece:
Didn’t notice it on tv, but against Leicester and City Arteta was getting Mari to push up into midfield and compress the space. High risk strategy (leaves Luiz 1v1 behind) but fascinating tactical tweak which seems to have caught the opposition off guard.
Great spot ! Vs ManCity at home recently Diaz was doing same. Basically playing as a midfielder and marauding through out midfield and attempting assists. It was fascinating ! Arteta then instructed Auba to stick to him and man mark his runs into our midfield. Pep had a lot to say about this game and said he learned something from Arteta he cannot wait to try. I guess it was instructions Arteta was giving from the bench maybe. Meanwhile Arteta's detractors on here used the kind words from Pep as a sly dig and compleelty misunderstand it.

Pep did same with Cancello vs BMGladbach in the CL game. He played him in central midfield. MOM Performance. Then yesterday against Wolves I was hoping to see how Cancello operates from LW again as a natural RB , moved into midfield. I was disappointed and sure Nuno Esp was too. He was stuck in the LB and LW flank all night. Different role ! Another excellent tactical tweak and positioning.
 

say yes

forum master baiter
and where did I bring him up? My point also rings true with Emery. Arteta showed sackable form and isn't judged the same as other managers in the league let alone Wenger.

Standards have dropped, you don't need to mention you know who to say that. Before dj whoever mentioned Wenger people were talking about the new emojis and joking about ticket prices, so a bit of a reach tbh.

Either way, Arteta can do what he likes anyways this arguing is futile you just have to support or walk away there's nothing that can be done.
Didn't say you brought him up. But a cursory glance at this thread demonstrates that it's not Arteta-fans who keep bringing Wenger up. Given you often engage with those posts, you should know that.

Anyway, you're right that it's futile but I'm glad you haven't given up on Mikel yet. Confident he will be drawing a smile on your face before long!
 

Finesse

Well-Known Member
Same old waffle, no substance, no metrics, no understanding of the history or patterns in the premier league.
That is harsh ;) . @AbouCuéllar may need to just revise his perspective to see where you are coming from. Arsenal has been given a reality check post Wenger. A perspective most had been deprived of due to Arsène's institutional brilliance. I can relate how and why most fans wanted him out and expected Emery / New Blood / Younger Manager to move the club on. We know the rest ! Today the veil has been removed and most fans are very measured with expectations and the reality has set in. Now we understand better how and what is needed for TOP4 finishes and winning trophies. I welcomed them to the club. We have been there a lot and understood since the Wenger years.
 

say yes

forum master baiter
Great spot ! Vs ManCity at home recently Diaz was doing same. Basically playing as a midfielder and marauding through out midfield and attempting assists. It was fascinating ! Arteta then instructed Auba to stick to him and man mark his runs into our midfield. Pep had a lot to say about this game and said he learned something from Arteta he cannot wait to try. I guess it was instructions Arteta was giving from the bench maybe. Meanwhile Arteta's detractors on here used the kind words from Pep as a sly dig and compleelty misunderstand it.

Pep did same with Cancello vs BMGladbach in the CL game. He played him in central midfield. MOM Performance. Then yesterday against Wolves I was hoping to see how Cancello operates from LW again as a natural RB , moved into midfield. I was disappointed and sure Nuno Esp was too. He was stuck in the LB and LW flank all night. Different role ! Another excellent tactical tweak and positioning.
Yeah, not sure why people think Pep was being sarcastic about Arteta :lol:

Arteta was Pep's trusted lieutenant for three years. Pretty sure Pep rates him highly!
 

Makavelii

Active Member
I don’t know how to highlight parts of your post but have we ever seen a good consistent streak under Mikel? I can’t think of any.
Well if you take out that 8 game disaster patch and then average out our points, we’d be in second place behind City (calculated this a couple weeks ago, may or may not be exactly right anymore).

The results outside of that bad patch have been decent.
 

Makavelii

Active Member
It's not really hard to see why Arteta is being afforded more leeway than some previous managers. He's a novice manager.

The club obviously saw potential in Mikel and the fact he is a rookie manager would have been in baked into their expectation for him, at least in the short - medium term. You don't sack a guy you see as a long term investment, which the club obviously do see Arteta as, after 12-18 months unless he totally implodes.

Agree. You don’t hire a guy with 0 experience and then be mad when he makes errors from lack of experience. That’s on you for hiring them.

The club is unspokenly committed to giving him a chance to grow into the role.
 

Makingtrax

Worships in the house of Wenger 🙏
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Player:Saliba
The understanding of the history and patterns of the premier league in the context of Europe is precisely what works strongly against your argument. As presented with the facts I presented you regarding English success in Europe over the past decade, which you completely ignored, as they suit your argument terribly.
The success of English clubs in Europe has been your attempt to move any discussion away from the Premier League and Arsenal's incredible success between 1996 and 2016, compared to before or after. Or indeed, compared to other clubs that have spent more, like Sp**s or Liverpool.
 

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