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Mikel Arteta: Top Of The Klopps

Toby

No longer a Stuttgart Fan
Moderator
I don't see the logic of that bro. If the average squad investment has doubled and average player prices has doubled in the last 5 years. It should make lower teams easier to beat. And the recent breaking records of 21 unbeaten wins for City and two years of title winners getting 99 points and 98 points seems to show that's true.

I think you're both right in a way. "Smaller" clubs can buy more expensive players which basically should give them more quality. But football has develop to make it more organized and rigid even down to small clubs. Just have a look at the ECs and WCs and small nations making the group stages via organized defending and getting draws. To beat that you need even better quality which is so expensive, only the big money clubs can get that. Explains why there's the notion of smaller clubs having better squads and being harder to beat while clubs which spent the most (on the absolute top of the crop of the football world) still "walk" leagues.

Money + tactics has toughened the league but mega money has in turn made it easier for those who have that sort of super money.
 

say yes

forum master baiter
:lol:

Didn’t have nothing to say about my other post? Another L for you.
Quickly because I hate to leave you waiting:
- Disagree that the league is weaker, it's stronger now than I've ever seen it and getting stronger still each season. Money talks. Big 4 is now clearly a big 6, or even a big 7 with Leicester. Clubs like Everton and Villa spending heavily, Wolves with their connections etc. Simply put the PL's got a middle-order even your boys Axar and Ashwin would struggle with.
- Agree that we've spent poorly and wasted resources for almost a decade now
- Agree that a stronger league doesn't excuse our performances, which ironically have been most disappointing against the genuinely weak teams.
 

GoonerJeeves

Established Member
Trusted ⭐

Country: Norway
I think you're both right in a way. "Smaller" clubs can buy more expensive players which basically should give them more quality. But football has develop to make it more organized and rigid even down to small clubs. Just have a look at the ECs and WCs and small nations making the group stages via organized defending and getting draws. To beat that you need even better quality which is so expensive, only the big money clubs can get that. Explains why there's the notion of smaller clubs having better squads and being harder to beat while clubs which spent the most (on the absolute top of the crop of the football world) still "walk" leagues.

Money + tactics has toughened the league but mega money has in turn made it easier for those who have that sort of super money.
You'd think this will be even more visible in the coming season. Many clubs struggle to make ends meet, while a few clubs with owners that pour money into the clubs will be able to capitalize on that.
 

Mrs Bergkamp

Double Dusted
Dusted 🔻
That is true, apparantly had a clause in his contract that he could go back being a physio again too!
Yes, I read that too. Shows the modesty of the man. Brought through Charlie George and other young players too and laid a foundation that would last 25 years on terms of future managers and giving youth a chance.
 

Blood on the Tracks

AG's best friend, role model and mentor.
Trusted ⭐

Country: England

Player:Rice
How? They're spending more and signing more expensive players themselves.

There's a ceiling to how much quality any club can have in real terms. Man City are always close to that ceiling. They have a WC squad. It's hard to improve on, beyond small margins, however much money they spend.

Doubling their expenditure isn't going to improve them anywhere near as much as would happen with a West Ham / Aston Villa etc who are much further away from that ceiling and with much more room for growth.
 
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Harz

Active Member
You'd think this will be even more visible in the coming season. Many clubs struggle to make ends meet, while a few clubs with owners that pour money into the clubs will be able to capitalize on that.
That's what Abramovich tried to go for after a few silent seasons but thankfully most of their signings flopped thus far
 

say yes

forum master baiter
There's a ceiling to how much talent any club can have in real terms. Man City are always close to that ceiling. They have a WC squad. It's hard to improve on, beyond small margins.

Doubling their expenditure isn't going to improve them anywhere near as much as would happen with a West Ham / Aston Villa etc who are much further away from that ceiling and with much more room for growth.
Yep exactly. It's why this conversation is so inane. The value of each £ decreases as you add them up.

They both look the same on a spreadsheet (+£20m), but:
- The average difference between a £60m player and an £80m player is negligible.
- The average difference between a free player and a £20m player is massive.

Simply put, having an extra £100m to spend will improve a club like Burnley much more than it will a club like Man City. It's why the league is becoming tougher as the smaller clubs get richer - even if the big clubs get richer too. They've just got much greater room to grow.
 

Mrs Bergkamp

Double Dusted
Dusted 🔻
Steve Round deserves more respect than this...I think.
You're probably right. Nothing playing career and an early intro into coaching at average teams apart from Utd. Bit of a grey man for me but lots of assistant experience which is nice
 

Harz

Active Member
Yep exactly. It's why this conversation is so inane. The value of each £ decreases as you add them up.

They both look the same on a spreadsheet (+£20m), but:
- The average difference between a £60m player and an £80m player is negligible.
- The average difference between a free player and a £20m player is massive.

Simply put, having an extra £100m to spend will improve a club like Burnley much more than it will a club like Man City. It's why the league is becoming tougher as the smaller clubs get richer - even if the big clubs get richer too. They've just got much greater room to grow.
Marginal returns/utility is a tough concept to internalize for a surprisingly large portion of the public
 

A_G

Rice Rice Baby 🎼🎵
A-M CL Draft Campeón 🏆
We’ve spent a record breaking amount over the 3 years and it’s been mostly poorly spent and managed. We’re midtable because of mismanagement. We finished 5th and reached a European final with mainly a Wenger team.
What does that have to do with clubs lower down the league spending more?
 

Country: Iceland
- Disagree that the league is weaker, it's stronger now than I've ever seen it and getting stronger still each season. Money talks. Big 4 is now clearly a big 6, or even a big 7 with Leicester. Clubs like Everton and Villa spending heavily, Wolves with their connections etc. Simply put the PL's got a middle-order even your boys Axar and Ashwin would struggle with.

Almost like people are willingly ignoring that the Champions have lost 6 home games in a row now. That doesn't happen unless there is a lot of quality in the league.
 

Rex Stone

Long live the fighters
Trusted ⭐

Country: Wales
That's what Abramovich tried to go for after a few silent seasons but thankfully most of their signings flopped thus far

They have capitalised. They’ve transformed youth football in this country.

So many talented prospects in England will have come through Chelsea’s academy at some point. They’re chucking crazy money at the families of kids aged 8-11 who are often in dire positions themselves and desperate for anything.

Also in terms of the loan scheme with Vitesse and others while KDB and Lukaku are the famous misses it did help them with Abraham and Mount.
 

kash2

More Consistent Than Arteta
things that arteta did which make him culpable

1. spent half the season pretending that #10 was not needed tactically.
2. forgot to train players to try something else, when opposition is targeting the playing out from back.
3. Not still having figured out his best front 3 or CB pairing.
4. Focused on slow but methodical buildup play instead of swift transitions and attacks.
 

say yes

forum master baiter
Almost like people are willingly ignoring that the Champions have lost 6 home games in a row now. That doesn't happen unless there is a lot of quality in the league.
Don't know why people think that 2010-2017 period was a good moment for English football. Awful record in Europe, Fergie coasting to titles with his worst ever teams before he retired, Sp**s getting close to the title multiple times, Leicester actually winning a title. The quality of the league was piss-poor compared to the naughties and what we're seeing now.
 

GDeep™

League is very weak
Utd have been poor since Ferguson left, when was the last time Chelsea had a top team? Liverpool have had 2 good seasons. Leicester won the league while Wenger was here, Wolves have had 1 good season in the PL, rumour now is that Nuno could go.

Where are all these tough teams and great football? PL, CL and international football has never been this poor a level. I said this last season too.
 

OnlyOne

‘Donkeys don’t have a peak, they remain useless’
Trusted ⭐

Country: England
Almost like people are willingly ignoring that the Champions have lost 6 home games in a row now. That doesn't happen unless there is a lot of quality in the league.

Absolutely incredible posting. You're slowly becoming one of my favourite posters in these last few months! Bravo!
 

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