People seem to be ignoring this part of your post.
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Mikel Arteta: Aston La Vista To The Title?
- Thread starter OnlyOne
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14Henry
Looking for receipts 👀
You’ve learnt nothing from the history of the premier league. Just 3 rich teams have won nearly all the titles. The teams spending below that, Sp**s, Arsenal and Liverpool have won very occasionally (Liverpool once in nearly 30 years) and the rest like like Leicester once a blue moon (1 in 140 years), if at all, most never.
When you’ve studied that, get back to me, and tell me how many other teams spending 5th were able to improve on continuous top 4. I’ll wait.
I've learnt that if Leciester can win the league and be in the top 4-6 then a team with the size, wage bill and spend that Arsenal has with the right manager should be able to overperform its "spending". I'm not saying under Wenger we should have been winning the league every year. But that year Leicester won it we should. And we failed. Other years we were never ever close. Miles off. Thats not competitive thats hanging on to top 4. Hoping no one below improves.
Other teams are able to overperform their spend. West Ham are doing it. Leciester the same. Sheffield United last season.
Ultimately we were not going forward under Wenger and stevie wonder could have seen that. And if in football or any competitive industry you are not moving forward or actively trying to improve (not celebrating top 4 like a trophey) there needs to be a change.
Its this acceptance for mediocrity that has Arsenal as this now wishy washy club. Just existing no pressure to win.
I've seen people accepting that we can finish 10th this year just because, well there was CV, and Partey was injured or Mikel is learning etc.
10th for Arsenal football club is an embarrassment.
Country: Canada
Isn't that the same squad everyone was desperate to change as soon as Wenger was gone? Full of deadwood, awful recruitment, etc.Well he did until he took us out of the CL with a squad that was capable of winning the league, but you don’t want to hear anything about that
Squad was capable of top four, as it has been for the past three seasons as well.
Country: England
Goes to show that people just don't read in forums or rather will read what they want to - to make their point.
Jury
A-M's drunk uncle
I ignored it because he believes it! He seems to conveniently discard the fact that we finished second and did actually have a squad and team capable of winning the league--a team that subsequently took us out of the CL places and was in free-fall before Wengz took the dough. All facts, all happened exactly like I said it did.
Jury
A-M's drunk uncle
It took us to second in the league behind Leicester. He was unable to keep them motivated for whatever reason after that though. It happens. But that's ultimately why he went.
I'm not getting involved here, I've already debated that with Trax about 600 times.
Country: Canada
Fair enough. That year was an anomaly though, with every big club massively underperforming and LCFC having a literal once in a lifetime season.
I edited my post to clarify I think the squad was capable of top four, and has been since Wenger left as well.
Iceman10
Established Member
Our defence and midfield has not been at a level to expect finishing above Ciry, Liverpool, United. That leaves us shooting for fourth spot only, and again our defence and midfield was not in any shape really to compete with Chelsea, Spuds, and even Leicester.
This season we are starting to see a better level with our CB’s, with Gabriel and Mari as additions. Our full backs have been pretty weak also, Tierney injured most of last season and starting to play more this season, while hard to see Bellerin as top 4 right now. Our CM depth is horrendous and Partey has been out most of this season, like Tierney last season.
The only way to argue with this as I see it is to make out more from Torreira and Guendouzi, probably also utilisation of AMN, but that is all a stretch. Torreira showed promising signs early on but never really came back after injury issues, and I’m not convinced his failings can be blamed on management. More deep-lying as CM in Italy but not physically up for it in the PL, while being a bit like Dani in general when tried further up the pitch.
No, truth is our squad in totality, with that incomplete spine has been around Top 6 as par for the course, not Top 4.
14Henry
Looking for receipts 👀
Are you still here HairSpray? You have become awful quiet? Just seeing if you're still alive.
Country: Canada
Emery came one point away from fourth and it was seen as underachieving (and it was given the way we threw points away in the run-in). That team made the EL final that same season. And as many people keep saying, we are playing top four ball right now over the past few months.
Iceman10
Established Member
That first season with Emery we had some good stuff from Torreira and Mustafi was not too bad. Still, you are not looking at it analytically. “Par for the course” is level expected. Either side of that is underachieving or overachieving.
I’ve pointed out our defence and midfield has been in no shape to expect Top 4 as par for the course compared with the competition, and in return you haven’t responded to the points made. Yes, this season we are getting there finally, probably still two pieces short at least, but that doesn’t account for big space of time you are saying we were Too 4 quality all along.
Country: Canada
I'm sorry, but I just don't see what point you are trying to make. If a team comes 5th by one point and drops as many as we did in that run-in, it is good enough for fourth. The following season was largely the same team, and Emery was fired for having them mid-table around xmas. I don't agree the players are/were as bad as you say, they were underperforming under Emery and under Arteta up until recently.
And I'm not saying we should cruise into top four, but the squad has been good enough to fight for it.
Country: England
Player:Saliba
Iceman10
Established Member
The point I’m making is simple. Look at our squad, compare it with our competitors, and objectively say what is par for the course for that squad. I’m arguing with an outlier really here. You are in a very small amount of people who say Arsenal has had a Top 4 squad all these years post-Wenger. I don’t see how one can be objective if they are not looking at the competition, their personnel and buys.
Look at it another way. The way you are assessing here you would never credit Arsène Wenger for overachieving with a squad because you wouldn’t be taking into account the competition and what they were doing with building squads. You would just say the table position was what the squad was, not being above Chelsea or another club as per specific season. If you wouldn’t use that way of judgment for Arsène Wenger, why are you using it for the two managers after him?
There is par for the course, underachievement, and overachievement. Par for the course as most see it, including myself, right now, is Top 6 not Top 4. That still means Mikel has underachieved this season so far, that isn’t being disputed, only your “Top 4” stuff.
Country: England
Player:Saliba
Yeah, lots of teams over perform their spend position, not many manage it for 20 years though. And then imagine if people said that's not good enough he should be able win the league so lets force him out. The danger is you might then get managers that can't over perform their spend position at all. Wait . .
Iceman10
Established Member
By the way, to some extent, I would say Unai Emery arguably overachieved for most of his first season until the collapse at the end. I still do think he was a better manager than some gave him credit for, but that Summer 2019 transfer window screwed him up due to the money spend that raised expectations, but spend on players who were not who he wanted, or ready-made, with bad luck with Tierney injuries also, although on top of all of that various things led to Unai losing the dressing room.
Reading the entirety of your posts would mean I have no spare time
Country: England
Player:Saliba
It's not a team capable of winning the league just because you say so. And weren't you spitting feathers at the start of that year because Arsène didn't spend money upgrading that squad. And wasn't half the forum calling the centre forward a donkey.
It just suits your narrative to say it was a team capable of winning the league because Arsène upset all his detractors when he came 2nd, so that's all they had left to whack him over the head with, never mind all his injuries, particularly losing his best player in November.
Jury
A-M's drunk uncle
The points and performances don't lie. We were capable irrespective of whether we inexplicably didn't strengthen. How does that change anything?
