Mikel Arteta: Managerial Royalty

[CaseUteinberger]

You are right Saliba was not a good story. I do not think the issue was the decision not to use him. It was how he was managed.

This is one decision that I think Edu and Arteta handled poorly. Not sure how they managed to **** this up so badly. Hope the situation can still be salvaged.

 

[Iceman10]

A bit harsh IMO. Arteta in his tenure so far has been alright with the young players. I think Willock , Saka , Eddie , Martinelli before injury , Nelson were all given their chances. Eddie kept Laca out of the team at times. Willock was a regular fixture. Nelson was used often too. Saka showed very strong signs last season but actually came through this season. Saka did not play a minute of the FA Cup run vs City and Chelsea. Arguably our most crucial games under Arteta. He had not cemented his place yet as you may believe.

I just think with young players you have to keep working with them and giving them chances. However they have to take it too , especially if they have to keep senior players out of the team. ESR did not hesitate when he got his chance. Willock and Eddie arguably had all the time and never really cemented their places. As for Martinelli his return from injury coincided with having Willian , Pepe , Saka on the wings. MO you have to give Arteta credit for how the boy settled in pretty quickly. ( Willian moved across town and just recently started to show his game) Very many on here were not sold on him. ( Denis Suarez again...a bit meh ...few were upset he pushed ESR to the wings etc) . Arteta stuck with him and now we see the results. Compare that with the amount of games Willock had in central midfield but never convinced or kept it.

You are right Saliba was not a good story. I do not think the issue was the decision not to use him. It was how he was managed. The player accepted he was not fit and ready. We should have loaned him immediately and kept him in the UK to get time and get used to the Island. I also think Arteta was hoping on Mari and Luis as the old heads. He wanted Gabriel too and decided to keep Holding..Saliba was the obvious choice to go. But Arteta , Edu and the club did not handle the issue promptly and loan him.

I did say “in net terms” which is kind of results based even though for individual players there will be injuries and other circumstances out of Arteta’s control. I take the point about Saka.

I do think Mikel is tasked with finding at least one internal option for CM, AM, and CF. These don’t have to be frontline first XI players, but they do have to be at least squad depth/rotation players. We can’t sign 6-7 players in one window this summer (while selling anything up to 10 players), especially if a lot of our available resources have to end up focused on Ødegaard. AM/CF can be covered by Martinelli and Balogun. Balogun could have signed a pre-contract with another club by now, but he hasn’t, which just means it is up to Arteta and the club to see if they can work something out with the player.

It’s not actually that much of a stretch to bring on these internal options to make up the numbers, ideally quality, for CM, AM, CF, with Saliba for CB also. I’m ok with buys for RB (if selling Bellerin) and LB backup for Tierney. What we shouldn’t be seeing though is another Willian type buy that acts like a blocker on minutes and development for youth, so definitely no silly short-termism with Courinho and the like, but unless we can bring through these internal options to make up numbers/quality for CM, AM, CF for next season I am still not that optimistic regarding next season and overall readiness of the squad, and that’s on Mikel, because IMO his job depends on getting this all right also.

 

[<<reed>>]

Still amazes me that people seemed shocked that Arsenal are giving Arteta more time ( I say more time, he's only been in charge for just over a year...level of fans patience these days ffs ) than they would an experienced coach...they expected some growing pains from him, he's never managed before...they are looking at what he could bring long term, they will accept some downs in the short term.

If one day Arteta becomes a good coach and for example receives an offer from a bigger club he will dump Arsenal the same way he dumped his old pal Pep at Man City for Arsenal (dont' forget he also rejected being a youth coach at Arsenal for Man City), so all those growing pains of developing a manager and sitting midtable are worthless, at the end of the day you can even barely get a fee for your manager who is under contract.

 

[samshere]

Still amazes me that people seemed shocked that Arsenal are giving Arteta more time ( I say more time, he's only been in charge for just over a year...level of fans patience these days ffs ) than they would an experienced coach...they expected some growing pains from him, he's never managed before...they are looking at what he could bring long term, they will accept some downs in the short term.

If we were what we were in the 1990s/2000s, Arteta wouldn't have gotten the job, we had massive expectations back then...but we have been on the down since the stadium move and especially since 2015/2016...time will be needed to turn us around, the sacking of our 3rd manager in 4 years won't fix much, we don't have the money to go down that route to success.

No one who backs Arteta thinks he should be given x amount of time, but he was always gonna be given a grace period to shape the club/team how he wants it...he's very well liked by the players (even more so by the media!) and has already won an FA Cup...think he deserves a little trust, tbh.

Don't buy this idea that we have to develop managers the way we do with footballers. The manager position at Arsenal should be the finished product.

 

[Iceman10]

Don't buy this idea that we have to develop managers the way we do with footballers. The manager position at Arsenal should be the finished product.

To state the obvious, no one in this thread hires the manager, the owners/board do, and they have a range of profiles they are comfortable with, largely a manager who will be happy to have the job and be compliant within constraints as opposed to a big ego/agitator who brings heat on the owners.

Many here knew the owners/board would go nowhere near Ancelotti when he was available, but that isn’t Mikel’s fault, or the fault of anyone in here. Recruitment, finances, etc. are in a ‘box’ with pre-defined limits, which only change if/when owners and club model changes, or we are lucky to find someone a bit different like Arsène Wenger when he was hired, who is available and not sought after by the biggest clubs at the time. Truth is Arsène Wenger received plenty of offers from the behemoths in Europe after his first few years at Arsenal, and at times there were close calls as to whether he was going to take up one of those offers.

 

[pikey2000]

I did say “in net terms” which is kind of results based even though for individual players there will be injuries and other circumstances out of Arteta’s control. I take the point about Saka.

I do think Mikel is tasked with finding at least one internal option for CM, AM, and CF. These don’t have to be frontline first XI players, but they do have to be at least squad depth/rotation players. We can’t sign 6-7 players in one window this summer (while selling anything up to 10 players), especially if a lot of our available resources have to end up focused on Ödegaard. AM/CF can be covered by Martinelli and Balogun. Balogun could have signed a pre-contract with another club by now, but he hasn’t, which just means it is up to Arteta and the club to see if they can work something out with the player.

It’s not actually that much of a stretch to bring on these internal options to make up the numbers, ideally quality, for CM, AM, CF, with Saliba for CB also. I’m ok with buys for RB (if selling Bellerin) and LB backup for Tierney. What we shouldn’t be seeing though is another Willian type buy that acts like a blocker on minutes and development for youth, so definitely no silly short-termism with Courinho and the like, but unless we can bring through these internal options to make up numbers/quality for CM, AM, CF for next season I am still not that optimistic regarding next season and overall readiness of the squad, and that’s on Mikel, because IMO his job depends on getting this all right also.

Agree with you on the premise of what you are saying but the youth have to be good enough as well otherwise we don't reach the targets we all believe we should be achieving i.e at least top 6

Its VERY hit and miss with youth, at every single club, some players who you think should make it, simply don't work out, for whatever reason, ESR/Saka have taken their chances but for each ESR/Saka you also have Nelson/Willock/Nketieh who have been underwhelming - you can' afford to have 5 projects in the side, 2 performing and 3 not, not if we want to make our targets.

So, whilst i agree we don't need any more Coutinho's on huge wages taking up youth playing time, we do still need signings like Cedric who can cover multiple positions, aren't on a godly wage and can play at premier league standard when called upon with more consistency than our youth players.

ITs a balancing act and up to now i'd say we are roughly doing it well, Saliba handled badly but Saka/ESR have worked out, Willock/Nketieh and Nelson were given chances, Willock is now on loan and doing well, AMN is on loan and playing week in week out, Nketieh and Nelson have chosen to stick and not play, i'd suggest Willock and AMN will now be closer to game time next season and if not sold for profit, Nelson and Nketieh are pretty much dead wood now. It doesn't always work out. 2 out of 5/6 youth players making it is a reasonable return at any club.

 

[kash2]

Some of us dummies thought Arsenal was a big club and had to have some standards. As time goes on we are proving to be wrong. Arsenal is not a big club. No wonder the football world see us as laughing stock

its the whining fans that have made us a laughing stock. They really destroyed Arsenal's image with their antics.

 

[Iceman10]

Agree with you on the premise of what you are saying but the youth have to be good enough as well otherwise we don't reach the targets we all believe we should be achieving i.e at least top 6

Its VERY hit and miss with youth, at every single club, some players who you think should make it, simply don't work out, for whatever reason, ESR/Saka have taken their chances but for each ESR/Saka you also have Nelson/Willock/Nketieh who have been underwhelming - you can' afford to have 5 projects in the side, 2 performing and 3 not, not if we want to make our targets.

So, whilst i agree we don't need any more Coutinho's on huge wages taking up youth playing time, we do still need signings like Cedric who can cover multiple positions, aren't on a godly wage and can play at premier league standard when called upon with more consistency than our youth players.

ITs a balancing act and up to now i'd say we are roughly doing it well, Saliba handled badly but Saka/ESR have worked out, Willock/Nketieh and Nelson were given chances, Willock is now on loan and doing well, AMN is on loan and playing week in week out, Nketieh and Nelson have chosen to stick and not play, i'd suggest Willock and AMN will now be closer to game time next season and if not sold for profit, Nelson and Nketieh are pretty much dead wood now. It doesn't always work out. 2 out of 5/6 youth players making it is a reasonable return at any club.

Didn’t make clear in that comment, so just in case, although you have valid points, I am still for a proper purchase of a CM, a CF if Laca is sold, CAM, and RB + LB. The bringing on of youth for me at minimum would be to provide squad depth behind this all, so even if we bring in a CF we have Balogun and Martinelli for additional depth, although Martinelli can remain mainly as LW/RW, that is upto the manager. Similarly, we bring in someone like Bissouma or Berge for CM, but we need another addition on top of that, and that ideally will be where making something out of our internal youth options comes in. Even if these supplementary youth players are not stars next season they still should be given first team match time to develop, for example theoretical readiness of Balogun as Auba’s career draws towards a close.

 

[say yes]

Don't buy this idea that we have to develop managers the way we do with footballers. The manager position at Arsenal should be the finished product.

In which case we should never have hired Arteta.

But here he is. And there are green shoots all over our lovely little football club, growing in the spring sun.

 

[Toby]

Is a simple yes enough?

Good for you.

 

[Goonger]

If he can integrate Saliba & somehow retain Ødegaard we'd have the best set of youngsters in the country, Saliba, Gabriel, Tierney, Saka, Smith-Rowe, Ødegaard & Martinelli all currently 23 or under. That doesn't even include squaddies like Maitland-Niles, Willock, Nelson, Nketiah & Balogun.

If the worst comes to the worst, & we are still sitting about 9th or 10th next season, at the very least he's served a purpose of ridding the squad of a lot of the crap, & left his replacement with a massively younger & leaner squad, a very good foundation for any future manager that you lot desire to work with.

 

[HairSprayGooners]

Again with the excusing him for his own decisions...wtf?!

He chose to drop Özil, he chose to force Willian into the first team. Gabriel came in and was an immediate improvement on our CBs. We've lost players who didn't play and signed players who have come in as starters. Ofc the squad is better than last year.

The squad might be better overall, but it was completely unbalanced. His decision to drop Özil was the right one, his decision to keep Willian in the side for so long was poor, but he did eventually drop him.

If we persisted with Özil we wouldn't have got Ødegaard, short term pain for long term gain.

You can't shout from the roof tops about poor decisions like keeping Willian in the side, but not acknowledge the fact that he did actually take him out the team and Arteta has improved the side in general.

I mean even take Cedric and Mari, people were slaughtering these signings and they've proven to be incredibly astute signings short and medium term. But Arteta wont get praise for that, if they ever have a bad game down the line he'll get the flack for it though.

Can't really win with people who want Arteta gone, but like I've said countless times, we've improved massively, we have a style of play and now we just need improvements on certain players. Simple as that.

 

[say yes]

He's had a great start (and may well be a better manager than Arteta - he certainly has the better CV) but lmao at @Trilly praising Tuchel for 'making do' with his squad at Chelsea.

Chelsea's squad is ridiculous and should be pushing City for the title. Praise allah each morning for Fat Frank.

 

[HairSprayGooners]

I think you can only judge a manager on the current and recent situation in this day and age.

And the current situation is if we beat Liverpool we are just one point behind them. Then you have to look to our rivals for that 4th spot. I know West Ham are obviously flying, but in all seriousness I'd only class Chelsea, Liverpool and Sp**s as proper rivals going into the final 10/9 games.

Sp**s - Newcastle(A), United(H), Everton(A), SheffUtd(H), Leeds(A), Wolves(H), Villa(H), Leicester(A), Southampton(H)

Chelsea - West Brom(H), Palace(A), West Ham(A), Fulham(H), City(A), Arsenal(H), Leicester(H), Villa(A), Brighton(H)

Liverpool have a decent run of games but they're in such poor form I can't really see them picking up enough points to make top 4.

Compare that to our run in - Liverpool(H), SheffUtd(A), Fulham(H), Everton(H), Newcastle(A), West Brom(H), Chelsea(A), Palace(A), Brighton(H)

Win those key games against Liverpool, Chelsea and Everton and we'll get 4th. That along with being in a fantastic position to make the final of the EL means Mikel has done a wonderful job over the past 2 or 3 months.

 

[El Duderino]

He's had a great start (and may well be a better manager than Arteta - he certainly has the better CV) but lmao at @Trilly praising Tuchel for 'making do' with his squad at Chelsea.

Chelsea's squad is ridiculous and should be pushing City for the title. Praise allah each morning for Fat Frank.

People were excusing Frank saying their sqaud wasn't good enough for the top, which they frankly (heh) are. A competent manager came in and look at what happened.

We shouldn't be sitting at 10th for such a long time. "Easy" run after Liverpool, so let's see how the table looks then, but Mikel should really have been on the mix on the upper part of it for most of the season.

 

[Rex Stone]

I think you can only judge a manager on the current and recent situation in this day and age.

And the current situation is if we beat Liverpool we are just one point behind them. Then you have to look to our rivals for that 4th spot. I know West Ham are obviously flying, but in all seriousness I'd only class Chelsea, Liverpool and Sp**s as proper rivals going into the final 10/9 games.

Sp**s - Newcastle(A), United(H), Everton(A), SheffUtd(H), Leeds(A), Wolves(H), Villa(H), Leicester(A), Southampton(H)

Chelsea - West Brom(H), Palace(A), West Ham(A), Fulham(H), City(A), Arsenal(H), Leicester(H), Villa(A), Brighton(H)

Liverpool have a decent run of games but they're in such poor form I can't really see them picking up enough points to make top 4.

Compare that to our run in - Liverpool(H), SheffUtd(A), Fulham(H), Everton(H), Newcastle(A), West Brom(H), Chelsea(A), Palace(A), Brighton(H)

Win those key games against Liverpool, Chelsea and Everton and we'll get 4th. That along with being in a fantastic position to make the final of the EL means Mikel has done a wonderful job over the past 2 or 3 months.

I keep seeing this “look at our run in” but genuinely have we even won more than three games on the bounce all year.

The consistency just isn’t there with us. We might well beat Chelsea but would anyone be shocked to see us drop points at Palace or against Everton?

 

[Blood on the Tracks]

Don't see how anyone can blame Arteta for ostracising and then binning Özil. It was 100% the correct decision.

A declining player on huge wages who was a malcontent in the dressing room. There shouldn't have been a place for him in Arteta's squad.

I do blame Arteta for not adequately replacing him in the squad in the summer though. That decision has cost us points. Willian and Laca were never up to standard there.

Once ESR was back and up to full fitness, he did very well and now Ødegaard's shining so we've got it sorted in the end but damage has been done.

We're 9 points off the CL places and 6 off the Europa league. It's all speculation but if we'd brought in a Ødegaard level 10 in August we'd be in or around the CL places I believe.

 

[say yes]

People were excusing Frank saying their sqaud wasn't good enough for the top, which they frankly (heh) are. A competent manager came in and look at what happened.

We shouldn't be sitting at 10th for such a long time. "Easy" run after Liverpool, so let's see how the table looks then, but Mikel should really have been on the mix on the upper part of it for most of the season.

Who?!

 

[CaseUteinberger]

He's had a great start (and may well be a better manager than Arteta - he certainly has the better CV) but lmao at @Trilly praising Tuchel for 'making do' with his squad at Chelsea.

Chelsea's squad is ridiculous and should be pushing City for the title. Praise allah each morning for Fat Frank.

I personally would have picked Tuchel over Arteta if having been given a choice when Emery was fired. But Tuchel also comes with some negatives. He really had some issues at Dortmund and isn’t known as a great man manager. Think he had some issues within the organization also.

Still, drawing some equivalence between our squad quality and Chelsea’s is a bit of a stretch after what money has been thrown at it over the last couple of years. Just this summer they plowed in money into it.

 

[HairSprayGooners]

I keep seeing this “look at our run in” but genuinely have we even won more than three games on the bounce all year.

The consistency just isn’t there with us. We might well beat Chelsea but would anyone be shocked to see us drop points at Palace or against Everton?

No but it doesn't mean we can't go on a run, in fact it makes it more likely that we will due it not happening previously. Also this club usually does well in the run in for some odd reason.

I wouldn't be shocked to see us drop silly points somewhere, its happened all season, stupid mistakes have killed us. But I still maintain that around 64-68 points will get 4th. So whilst its doable I'll believe, if we do drop stupid points within the next 4 games then all eggs into the Europa league basket.