Mikel Arteta: Aston La Vista To The Title?

[Riou]

Despite having a poor season, doesn't Auba still have a 1 in 2 record so far this season?

Man scores goals, we couldn't give that up...think he still has good years to give too, this is just a blip imo...still very happy we gave him that contract, good character to have in your club too.



#ArtetasCaptain

 

[Blood on the Tracks]

Despite having a poor season, doesn't Auba still have a 1 in 2 record so far this season?

Man scores goals, we couldn't give that up...think he still has good years to give too, this is just a blip imo...still very happy we gave him that contract, good character to have in your club too.

I think he's got 14 in 32 or something, so yeah, pretty much.


It's the weirdest thing that I've found about Arsenal fans in general. They tend to be obsessed with age.

Maybe it's because Wenger was so good at bringing youth through and we have a reputation for it but fans act like if a players 30 they're ready to be put down. It's bizarre.

The advancement in the medical field and player care these days, there's no reason that very good players generally can't perform physically to a very high standard to 34-35.

 

[Riou]

I think he's got 14 in 32 or something, so yeah, pretty much.


It's the weirdest thing that I've found about Arsenal fans in general. They tend to be obsessed with age.

Maybe it's because Wenger was so good at bringing youth through and we have a reputation for it but fans act like if a players 30 they're ready to be put down. It's bizarre.

The advancement in the medical field and player care these days, there's no reason that very good players generally can't perform physically to a very high standard to 34-35.

I don't even think he will lose much tbh, his main weapon isn't his pace but his movement...I get bantered for saying Auba and Pepe aren't fast, which I admit is funny

But when I say Pierre isn't fast, I mean he has never shown Thierry level pace to me, I am not saying he has Giroud level speed...Auba makes those little runs Van Persie used to make, little bursts in the box here and there (obvs they are both different players beyond that) but what impresses me most about Auba is his movement in the box, that won't go with age really...just get creative, technical players around him and we are golden.

Feel it's Championship/Football Manager too...everyone wants all the wonderkids!

 

[Atlas]

I can understand this view from an emotional fan standpoint, but looked at more neutrally, I struggle to see Wenger as having sacrificed anything for Arsenal. He was after all extremely well reimbursed for his services over his employment period with the club we support. It's akin to saying that a high ranking CEO, who didn't switch to a larger competitor at one point in his career, and then finally is sacked when the company he stayed with is doing poorly, has sacrificed anything. Not sure anyone would have much sympathy for that CEO. Like I said, I can understand your view, but I wouldn't use the word sacrifice here, not for a very well-paid professional football manager.

Let me elaborate on that. Wenger was going to be highly paid wherever he went. At a certain point the money doesnt matter anymore unless it a crazy amount and he could have earned the same if not more at the big clubs that were interested in him. Top managers like Wenger want to win trophies and be champions not be humiliated by the likes of Mourinho who have a huge financial advantage over you or see your bitter rival SAF leave you far behind to a point where you are no longer rivals. Henry knew the good times were over at Arsenal and he left to win trophies.

Wenger lost his best players and had to rebuild post invincibles without the funds you would need to replace the type of players he lost. He could easily have left to join one of the clubs I mentioned and challenge for the CL with world class teams and a world class budget. Why did he stay to take on the rebuilding project? How many top level managers would have done that? Can you imagine Pep or Mourinho sticking it out at a club with a small budget when the biggest clubs in the world were knocking at their doors?

Of course he was paid a very nice salary to manage us but for a proud man like Wenger who was a bad loser and serial winner during the Highbury days to accept that he would have to work with a shoestring budget and not be able to compete with the likes of Chelsea and Utd when he had the option of managing clubs that could compete with anybody is a sacrifice in my books.

 

[Macho]

The mistake you're making is you think people are willing to put the managers job before the success of the club....

Fans putting their agenda and their chance of "I told you" before the success of the club? AM would never surely.

Every manager gets his due period, just as Emery did. Mikel will be no different.

I'd like us to stop pretending Arteta doesn't get treated with kid gloves tbh. If we are totally honest the guy doesn't even have to win matches really - so we will never agree here.

What you're seeing from those you think are pro-Mikel is just a normal level of patience and realism. 9th at this point next year wont be good enough because he'd have had enough time to show more improvement than that. No strings or hidden agendas,

So everyone who likes what they are seeing is normal and patient and whoever doesn't is rabid?
If you say so man.

From my standpoint, Arteta can do no wrong as he's always afforded perspective. So whilst he's sucking all the enjoyment out of Arsenal for me personally, I've accepted the majority love it and I just get on with it. I don't even openly criticise him anymore it's just not worth it.

That doesn't make me normal you're kinda right, TTP I guess.

 

[dbig]

Let me elaborate on that. Wenger was going to be highly paid wherever he went. At a certain point the money doesnt matter anymore unless it a crazy amount and he could have earned the same if not more at the big clubs that were interested in him. Top managers like Wenger want to win trophies and be champions not be humiliated by the likes of Mourinho who have a huge financial advantage over you or see your bitter rival SAF leave you far behind to a point where you are no longer rivals. Henry knew the good times were over at Arsenal and he left to win trophies.

Wenger lost his best players and had to rebuild post invincibles without the funds you would need to replace the type of players he lost. He could easily have left to join one of the clubs I mentioned and challenge for the CL with world class teams and a world class budget. Why did he stay to take on the rebuilding project? How many top level managers would have done that? Can you imagine Pep or Mourinho sticking it out at a club with a small budget when the biggest clubs in the world were knocking at their doors?

Of course he was paid a very nice salary to manage us but for a proud man like Wenger who was a bad loser and serial winner during the Highbury days to accept that he would have to work with a shoestring budget and not be able to compete with the likes of Chelsea and Utd when he had the option of managing clubs that could compete with anybody is a sacrifice in my books.

Looking back, the biggest mistake was believing in the financial fair play nonsense. Should have backed Wenger to the hilt after the move and got in some big name signings. Would probably have pushed us to a super club status. Instead, we stinged and had a goal of finishing top 4 every year to cover the stadium cost through organic means of player sales and ticket revenues. I guess the board didn't expect the fans to lose their patience with the project.

Stars will really need to align now if we're ever to get back to top 4 on a consistent basis, much less win the league again.

 

[CaseUteinberger]

Let me elaborate on that. Wenger was going to be highly paid wherever he went. At a certain point the money doesnt matter anymore unless it a crazy amount and he could have earned the same if not more at the big clubs that were interested in him. Top managers like Wenger want to win trophies and be champions not be humiliated by the likes of Mourinho who have a huge financial advantage over you or see your bitter rival SAF leave you far behind to a point where you are no longer rivals. Henry knew the good times were over at Arsenal and he left to win trophies.

Wenger lost his best players and had to rebuild post invincibles without the funds you would need to replace the type of players he lost. He could easily have left to join one of the clubs I mentioned and challenge for the CL with world class teams and a world class budget. Why did he stay to take on the rebuilding project? How many top level managers would have done that? Can you imagine Pep or Mourinho sticking it out at a club with a small budget when the biggest clubs the world were knocking at their doors?

Of course he was paid a very nice salary to manage us but for a proud man like Wenger who was a bad loser and serial winner during the Highbury days to accept that he would have to work with a shoestring budget and not be able to compete with the likes of Chelsea and Utd when he had the option of managing clubs that could compete with anybody is a sacrifice in my books.

Fair points with which I don't disagree necessarily. Still by doing what he did he has become part of the Arsenal fabric in a much more meaningful way then Mourinho ever has with e.g. Chelsea. Arsenal in many ways are still Wenger's club and we will be for a long time. So while he "sacrificed" winning trophies he won something much more lasting, the genuine appreciation of the Arsenal fans! I wasn't an Arsenal fan during the glory years, but when I came to London I settled on Arsenal as my club mainly because of how Arsenal played and had for a long time, the fans which I felt were a nicer lot than of most other clubs and Wenger who in his a bit professorial ways spoke to my likings.

 

[Atlas]

The talk of sacrifice when it comes to anyone in football get's a bit silly when you put in in perspective. I'm not knocking Wenger because he did show massive loyalty to the club when he could have departed for Barca, Real, Bayern, England etc multiple times.

He (deservedly) took over £20m from the club in his last year. Over the course of his tenure here Arsène must have earnt somewhere in excess of £70m. I've no issue with it, he deserved every penny. But he could have left if he wanted to, he chose to stay. He got screwed at the end but no-one can say he wasn't adequately rewarded financially for the job he did.

I do understand why you guys think its a bit ridiculous to talk about sacrifice when he was paid so much money but I'm not talking about the Bruce Willis sacrificing himself to destroy an asteroid to save the world type of sacrifice. I'm just saying that Wenger could have made the 70m or more at another club or clubs and won a bunch of trophies and he turned that down to stay with us and go through a painful rebuild. Wenger is one of the all time greats but he could have gone down as the GOAT at a club like Real Madrid by winning a couple of CL. Instead he ended up being called a specialist in failure by Mourinho because the team he was managing on a small budget couldnt compete for the biggest prizes and when the top 10 managers of all time are mentioned Wenger is rarely if ever in that list mainly because of the Emirates years and the handicap he had. Is that not a sacrifice of sorts?

 

[Atlas]

Fair points with which I don't disagree necessarily. Still by doing what he did he has become part of the Arsenal fabric in a much more meaningful way then Mourinho ever has with e.g. Chelsea. Arsenal in many ways are still Wenger's club and we will be for a long time. So while he "sacrificed" winning trophies he won something much more lasting, the genuine appreciation of the Arsenal fans! I wasn't an Arsenal fan during the glory years, but when I came to London I settled on Arsenal as my club mainly because of how Arsenal played and had for a long time, the fans which I felt were a nicer lot than of most other clubs and Wenger who in his a bit professorial ways spoke to my likings.

My original point was how disgraceful it was that he was treated so badly by some of the fans at end. I support Arsenal because of Wenger since the 97/98 season I love the man he's pure class and I could listen to him talk all day. I just feel that the way things went especially in the later years he deserved better and he should have moved on and won the big trophies that he deserved rather than being called a specialist in failure and abused by some of the fans. I love that he stayed with us but he deserved the chance to compete with Fergie and Mourinho and the other wankers on an even footing.

 

[Blood on the Tracks]

I don't even think he will lose much tbh, his main weapon isn't his pace but his movement...I get bantered for saying Auba and Pepe aren't fast, which I admit is funny

But when I say Pierre isn't fast, I mean he has never shown Thierry level pace to me, I am not saying he has Giroud level speed...Auba makes those little runs Van Persie used to make, little bursts in the box here and there (obvs they are both different players beyond that) but what impresses me most about Auba is his movement in the box, that won't go with age really...just get creative, technical players around him and we are golden.

Feel it's Championship/Football Manager too...everyone wants all the wonderkids!

To me there's a difference between pace and acceleration.

I think Auba and Pepe are probably more acceleration based than top speed just based off what I see with my eyes. I doubt either would be top 10 in the league over 100 metres, though they're no slow coaches.

Henry had the crazy top speed but for me it was the acceleration over 5 yards that really set him apart. I'm not sure I've seen a player burst past an opponent from a standing start so quickly since. He was ridiculous.

As you say people overestimate Auba's reliance on pace anyway. It's the movement that really sets him apart, you don't lose that.

 

[Blood on the Tracks]

It's a paradox but part of what will enhance Wenger's legend and stature with the Arsenal fans over time is the fact that he stayed here while we weren't winning trophies and he was in demand elsewhere.

Look at Fergie, it's easy to be loyal to Man Utd for decades when there are no upward moves to make. There are only a couple of sideways moves he could have made. Real, Barca etc.

Wenger pretty much throughout his time at Arsenal had the managerial ability and offers for upward moves. He never took them.

 

[Riou]

I think Arsène was too invested in Arsenal to leave, he wanted to win here more than at a Real Madrid for example...don't think he wanted to manage anywhere else, he just loved the club like a fan.

He deserved more trophies, but I don't think he minds tbh, his legacy was already secured after going unbeaten anyway...the only major regret he has is not winning the Champions League here, while he was probably tempted to leave at times post 2006, I don't think he would change it.

 

[Iceman10]

It's a paradox but part of what will enhance Wenger's legend and stature with the Arsenal fans over time is the fact that he stayed here while we weren't winning trophies and he was in demand elsewhere.

Look at Fergie, it's easy to be loyal to Man Utd for decades when there are no upward moves to make. There are only a couple of sideways moves he could have made. Real, Barca etc.

Wenger pretty much throughout his time at Arsenal had the managerial ability and offers for upward moves. He never took them.

Remember this argument for the predictable next time someone brings up that having a “rookie manager” learn on the job is futile anyway as they will leave to a “bigger” club as soon as they get the chance. Arsène Wenger wasn’t an obvious pick for manager himself and once he became renowned for his job at Arsenal he resisted offers from RM, Barca, Bayern, but there were times he thought about those opportunities and there are no guarantees with any manager that does well at this club.

What gave Arsène extra affinity was probably because he oversaw being a trailblazer with the training ground, academy, stadium, etc.; that probably won’t be there so much for managers for us now, but being part of a “rebuild process” can bring special attachment to the club in the end, you never know, no guarantees either way.

 

[Atlas]

It's a paradox but part of what will enhance Wenger's legend and stature with the Arsenal fans over time is the fact that he stayed here while we weren't winning trophies and he was in demand elsewhere.

Look at Fergie, it's easy to be loyal to Man Utd for decades when there are no upward moves to make. There are only a couple of sideways moves he could have made. Real, Barca etc.

Wenger pretty much throughout his time at Arsenal had the managerial ability and offers for upward moves. He never took them.

I think many fans tend to overlook that part and focus on the mistakes he made and the lack of trophies which is fair enough but it should always be balanced by the fact that we would have been royally ****ed if Wenger had left us once we moved to the Emirates. I read somewhere that one of the conditions of the loan was the Wenger would remain as manager although I don't know how true that is. What I do know is that it is highly unlikely and in my opinion impossible for any other manager to come in and deliver 10 years of CL while balancing the books. Our budget was tight even with CL football imagine how ****ed we would have been without it. Its impossible to overstate how critical Wenger was to the club in those years. The fans who abused him should have been sent to gulags.

 

[GunnerUK]

Let me elaborate on that. Wenger was going to be highly paid wherever he went. At a certain point the money doesnt matter anymore unless it a crazy amount and he could have earned the same if not more at the big clubs that were interested in him. Top managers like Wenger want to win trophies and be champions not be humiliated by the likes of Mourinho who have a huge financial advantage over you or see your bitter rival SAF leave you far behind to a point where you are no longer rivals. Henry knew the good times were over at Arsenal and he left to win trophies.

Wenger lost his best players and had to rebuild post invincibles without the funds you would need to replace the type of players he lost. He could easily have left to join one of the clubs I mentioned and challenge for the CL with world class teams and a world class budget. Why did he stay to take on the rebuilding project? How many top level managers would have done that? Can you imagine Pep or Mourinho sticking it out at a club with a small budget when the biggest clubs in the world were knocking at their doors?

Of course he was paid a very nice salary to manage us but for a proud man like Wenger who was a bad loser and serial winner during the Highbury days to accept that he would have to work with a shoestring budget and not be able to compete with the likes of Chelsea and Utd when he had the option of managing clubs that could compete with anybody is a sacrifice in my books.

Good points. But Wenger had a lot of control at Arsenal around that period he was basically the Manager, The Chief Scout, The Chairman, The Owner lol...

He was never leaving to go anywhere else in my opinion not with the amount of respect and control he had...

 

[Atlas]

Good points. But Wenger had a lot of control at Arsenal around that period he was basically the Manager, The Chief Scout, The Chairman, The Owner lol...

He was never leaving to go anywhere else in my opinion not with the amount of respect and control he had...

Very fair point he would never have been given the same control at another club. On the other hand he had 0 support from the owner on the things that mattered like investment. For me the single biggest event that ****ed this club over was when Kroenke took over instead of Usmanov. Wenger with an owner like Usmanov would have crushed it.

 

[GoonerJay24]

My original point was how disgraceful it was that he was treated so badly by some of the fans at end. I support Arsenal because of Wenger since the 97/98 season I love the man he's pure class and I could listen to him talk all day. I just feel that the way things went especially in the later years he deserved better and he should have moved on and won the big trophies that he deserved rather than being called a specialist in failure and abused by some of the fans. I love that he stayed with us but he deserved the chance to compete with Fergie and Mourinho and the other wankers on an even footing.

He did compete with those other managers.

 

[Atlas]

He did compete with those other managers.

He didnt do it on an equal footing though.

 

[Jury]

Fans putting their agenda and their chance of "I told you" before the success of the club? AM would never surely.

Again, I can't see how that's any sort of motivation. You'd be forced to defend a false position. Look how varied the voting is; when you take into account the extreme protest votes from either side and draw them into more neutral positions, it gets even more centered. That's an actual representation of AM as well. I don't even get what your point is tbh. That voting clearly suggests this board will be strongly 'Mikel out' if we're in this position next year.

I'd like us to stop pretending Arteta doesn't get treated with kid gloves tbh. If we are totally honest the guy doesn't even have to win matches really - so we will never agree here.

I don't think it's kid gloves at all. If you think he's getting off lightly, you can put it down to the timing of his appointment and how bad things became under Emery, the trophy and the acceptance from fans regarding the size of the job. Add to that the improvement that you even acknowledge yourself, and it shouldn't really come as a surprise that most aren't willing to sack him tomorrow. You're acting like he's been here five years.

So everyone who likes what they are seeing is normal and patient and whoever doesn't is rabid?
If you say so man.

Not at all, it doesn't have to be 'rabid'. What doesn't help though, are the numerous conspiracy theories popping up and... dying out. That's not going to help fans that are trying to appear level-headed and honest, is it?

From my standpoint, Arteta can do no wrong as he's always afforded perspective. So whilst he's sucking all the enjoyment out of Arsenal for me personally, I've accepted the majority love it and I just get on with it. I don't even openly criticise him anymore it's just not worth it.

Do you want everyone to stop applying perspective then? It exists. We look at all angles and try and see the positives without ignoring the negatives, of which there are some.

That doesn't make me normal you're kinda right, TTP I guess.

Don't be so harsh on yourself. You're not even in the minority on this board fwiw!

 

[GDeep™]

Good points. But Wenger had a lot of control at Arsenal around that period he was basically the Manager, The Chief Scout, The Chairman, The Owner lol...

He was never leaving to go anywhere else in my opinion not with the amount of respect and control he had...

Wenger would’ve got control wherever he went, more money, more funds etc. His issue was he was too invested in Arsenal, like @Riou said.

He should regret it now though, he could’ve done so much more with his career.