Mikel Arteta: Aston La Vista To The Title?

[Makingtrax]

Deleted that cause I didn't want to be like "I told you so" like Drippin, there's no real point.

Still think it's a decent season, or like the absolute minimum that should have been achieved so there's nothing to really gloat over.

Pukki might channel his inner Henry we never know.

Can’t see it that way. 13 losses when he got the defence (and back ups he wanted and bought) is unacceptable in season 3. And fans still trying to blame former managers for his limitations is just too much.

 

[SA Gunner]

You are using isolated incidents, all those managers have managed other players with big egos all the time and have actually won major trophies. Meanwhile Arteta:

Guendouzi
Auba
Saliba
AMN



Bruno G is definetly what the club needed, the only question is whether it was financially viable or possible.

No manager has had the PR that Arteta , Emery was slaughtered for a poor run of form meanwhile when Arteta had 1 win 10 with 8 losses yet we were told this is part of the process. When we lost 4-0 to liverpool the Athletic came out with an article saying why THIS 4-0 felt different. We are being told that we are overachieving even though when he joined in Dec 2019 Ornstein said that the objective was top 4 in his second season. He told Willian we would be winning the CL in his 3rd season FFS.

So wait, because these managers have won trophies, are they allowed to fall out with players? And furthermore do we then say that Arteta is not allowed to fall out with players until he is more successful? Because at the end of the day, falling out with players is a BAD thing, no matter who it is.

Bruno G was definitely what the club needed, just like Lorik Cana was what the club needed all those years ago. What exactly have you seen and heard from within the club makes you conclude that it was a question of finances? Do you have someone inside feeding you club info?

Or are you speculating about what the club needs and should do, just like the rest of us?

Emery was slaughtered by who? Arsenal football club? If so, please show me articles of the club bashing Emery during his poor run at the club?

Let me almost confidently tell you what the problem is here... its not that the club is failing or making bad calls with the first team. It is that the club continues to have Mikel Arteta lead the team, and the fact that he was extended for a further three years. There is nothing else that you are concerned about, other than that fact.

 

[Macho]

Can’t see it that way. 13 losses when he got the defence (and back ups he wanted and bought) is unacceptable in season 3. And fans still trying to blame former managers for his limitations is just too much.

You know the one thing Wenger and Arteta have in common?

There were idiots being idiots in both of their tenures, nothings really changed. Except the people who suddenly love 4th.

 

[Rimaal]

You know the one thing Wenger and Arteta have in common?

There were idiots being idiots in both of their tenures, nothings really changed. Except the people who suddenly love 4th.

Wenger was sacked from coming 5th and 6th. Emery was sacked for 8th. Unless Arteta gets 4th (the minimum requirement for his spend) then he should be sacked this summer. Anything else is a lowering of standards and proof of a midtable mentality.

 

[Rasmi]

If we sign young players like Fabregas, Reyes, RvP, Adebayor, Nasri, and Diaby, we are getting the top 4, but if we continue with Lokonga and Tavares type of transfers then I'm afraid this "young squad" will just be an excuse like you are saying

Those players had wenger who really knew how to use and make attacking players flourish. Mr dictator on the sideline would make all those players half the players they were. He sucks the blood out of any creativity

 

[Trilly]

Daaamn that sounds depressing. But @Trilly will say it’s good season and he sees sign of progression

Me??????

 

[Rimaal]

Me??????

You and @OnlyOne look alike.

 

[Trilly]

The table at the end of the season > expected points.

I’m all for xG in a managers first few months, I’d even push that up to his first 18 months. It allows you to look for signs of progress and give him time or confirm that he isn’t good enough.

Any period longer than that and we have to judge him by what the team is judged by. You don’t get CL football by getting 75xPoints, you don’t sign the best players in the world by showing them your xG per game.

It was the beginning of the end for Arsène when he finished 5th. Nobody cared that it was one of the best (statistically) 5th place finishes in recent years. I think Arteta’s had long enough now. Points, wins, losses, goals scored, goals conceded. The good old fashioned stuff is what he should be judged on.

 

[samspade]

It's a decent season. I think whether there's a future in the style and structures we're trying to implement is more important than whether we finish 4th or 5th, and I can see people going either way on that point. I'm absolutely gutted but I'm still behind this; in my view, it took many successes to get to the point where 4th is ours to lose and thence many failures to throw it away. The last few games cancel out some of the good stuff from earlier in the season but not all, so I'd say it's been a decent season.

 

[grange]

Arteta is not getting fired next season either so you may as well hope he learns from this. If the Outers think they're going to cry about the same things over and over for 3500 pages to drive the rest of us out then they are mistaken.

 

[Farzad Stoned]

Exactly. That is precisely, as I say, where the debate should occur, if this thread were a more reasonable place to be in:



Instead of wasting time on stuff that is relatively obvious, that is the stuff that should be debated. But it is hard when people are just obsessed with foaming at the mouth, can't recognise the relatively obvious, and we can never get to the more interesting, debatable stuff.

Ok answer me this so if that is where the debate should be centered, then Arteta has definetly been a failure so far. Don’t you think he is responsible for this collapse due to terrible squad size management? Considering no other competitions how can a club so large that spent the money we have improve so little? Arsenal football club is still one of the 5 or 10 biggest richest clubs in the world, we should not have a manager who can’t muster enough able bodies to finish when we have no other competitions. If you frame the debate the way you say is fair and logical, then Arteta is an abysmal and comical failure

 

[El Duderino]

I’m all for xG in a managers first few months, I’d even push that up to his first 18 months. It allows you to look for signs of progress and give him time or confirm that he isn’t good enough.

Any period longer than that and we have to judge him by what the team is judged by. You don’t get CL football by getting 75xPoints, you don’t sign the best players in the world by showing them your xG per game.

It was the beginning of the end for Arsène when he finished 5th. Nobody cared that it was one of the best (statistically) 5th place finishes in recent years. I think Arteta’s had long enough now. Points, wins, losses, goals scored, goals conceded. The good old fashioned stuff is what he should be judged on.

"listen Gabi J, I know the Europa League theme song is kinda **** compared to the CL one you're used to listening, but we have really good xpts!"

 

[Maybe]

Those players had wenger who really knew how to use and make attacking players flourish. Mr dictator on the sideline would make all those players half the players they were. He sucks the blood out of any creativity

Wenger helped, but all were super talented, something I don't really feel with the current group of youngsters we have.

 

[Rimaal]

Arteta is not getting fired next season either so you may as well hope he learns from this. If the Outers think they're going to cry about the same things over and over for 3500 pages to drive the rest of us out then they are mistaken.

Be cause of your avi all your posts sound like this in my head

 

[OnlyOne]

You and @OnlyOne look alike.

@Trilly

 

[Artisan]

Remember Conte and Diego Costa? How about Pep and Zlatan? Pogba and Mourinho perhaps?

Bruno G may have been begging to join us, but was he what the club needed? We may think so... but the manager has his reasons for not signing him and I think that's fine actually. Wenger did this with Zlatan, Modric, Kante, Yaya Toure if I recall.

I think the club protecting the manager through PR and propaganda is standard procedure right? We look around and see the same things happening everywhere else. Remember the Suarez t-shirts after his racism incident?

Perfect comparision, Conte fell out with Costa when Costa publicly pushed for a move mid season. What did he do? He made do with him, got the most out of him and when they had won the title at the end of the season he told Costa to piss off. Now compare that with your manager.

Also it was Zlatan who didn't want to take a trial, we wanted to sign Yaya but he wouldn't have qualified for a work permit and Kante had to do with his agent fees if the rumours are to believed. Modric is the only major **** up in that list.

 

[SA Gunner]

Perfect comparision, Conte fell out with Costa when Costa publicly pushed for a move mid season. What did he do? He made do with him, got the most out of him and when they had won the title at the end of the season he told Costa to piss off. Now compare that with your manager.

Also it was Zlatan who didn't want to take a trial, we wanted to sign Yaya but he wouldn't have qualified for a work permit and Kante had to do with his agent fees if the rumours are to believed. Modric is the only major **** up in that list.

It didnt work out with Aubameyang, that's life, not ideal of course, but it happens. The key point however is that this is not unique to Arteta. Public fallouts happen all over, and will continue to happen all over.

What will really fry your brain is whether this would still have been an argument, had we made it to the Champions League in the end. Will Arteta's falling out with players still be such an issue, once we start to build up some consistency.

 

[Farzad Stoned]

Imagine him writing for Sean Hannity!

I don't think Musk can construct starships fast enough for me to escape the solar system

as an immigrant with funny name I am targeted 24-7-365 by Fox’s racist hate crimes incitement and they are literally a Nazi force on the global stage with more blood on their hands than Putin, take it easy on Abou, he is willfully blind but comparing him to Sean “Dr. Goebbels” Hannity is maybe a wee bit harsh. Funny no doubt but harsh for fellow Gooner, a deluded one for sure, but ouch Hannity, you guys are merciless

 

[2Smokeyy]

I’m in tears so many strays being caught in here. @Trilly called an inner una

 

[ArsenesCoatMaker]

Auba literally won Arteta the FA cup, what do you mean pensioner?

I'll give you some of the defense part, but mostly because his talent ID for defenders is alright and because Kolasinac is barely a footballer, but let's not forget Arteta actively tried to give Mustafi and Luiz extensions.

the Arteta tax on attackers is a real thing.

It's the one big constant regardless of personnel and is his biggest challenge going forward.

Auba won the FA Cup took his 300k wage and retired never to be seen again. Auba was poor for a long time and it was like playing with 10 players when he played. It's not a coicidence we started playing better football when he was dropped.

Maybe Arteta does drain the life out of strikers, this is an unknown. I've heard the argument that Guardiola also doesn't get the best out of strikers. With his decision to use Aguero sparcely, not gelling with Ibrah, not getting the numbers with Lewa that other managers have. So yes both probably demand their strikers drop deep to help link up play alongside pressing relentlessly. It probably makes it harder to be the last man on the end of move.

As for the Luiz and Mustafi being offered extensions thing, on the face off sounds like poor decision making. But then you have to think they are both ball playing defenders and we had to splash £50m for White when Luiz left.