Mikel Arteta: Aston La Vista To The Title?

[A_G]

All clubs will have senior players who collect fines. At Utd it was Keane, and after that it was Neville.

Managers are busy doing other stuff.

I don’t know where you’re getting this players took the piss in the end stuff.

I guess I just imagined the 17/18 squad downing tools in the second half of the season.

 

[Trilly]

Feel like you're being a tad harsh on Cedric and Mari, who were always signed as a back ups for low fees, Willian was crap but again cheap, and Ramsdale who was excellent for large parts of the season.

Tomiyasu can't be considered a bad purchase because he got injured in his first season in the EPL, and most would say he's a very good RB

And why is White a questionable purchase? He's the first CB on the team sheet when fit.
Also I have no problem with him being Pep-lite, it works

Fair enough on the potential/new guys but they look like quality players to me, its nice to be linked with players that actually excite me and I think are likely to improve the squad.

Also worth noting that I don't massively rate Partey but I know a few here do. Gabriel, though, looks to be a potentially top class CB.

Mari wasn’t seen as good enough for the role he was brought in for. Him and Runnarson (wiped him from my memory) are literally failed transfers.

Cedric fair enough, club seem happy with him as a back-up and he wouldn’t be much of a problem if Tomi stays fit.

I’ll give Tomi another season, maybe this is just a freak run of injuries in his first season. I’m not as convinced by him as most when he’s fit though. Think he’s just ‘good’.

White is questionable because there’s a lot of debate on how good he actually is. I think he’s decent personally but 50M on him while loaning Saliba out for personal reasons will always be a questionable transfer.

I don’t think the transfer success rate is that good, the duds have been cheap and easy to get rid of and we got very, very, very lucky with Willian walking away from 20 million. The talent ID is not great but it’s trending upwards I’ll admit that.

Also I have no problem with him being Pep-lite, it works

If the club are in support of this then I guess I don’t mind either. I’ve always thought this spending is short term to get to the CL but if this is just what it is now then that’s fine.
I’ll always feel in the back of the the mind that somebody else could do better with the same money but no complaints if he spends his way up the table and stays there.

 

[GDeep™]

I guess I just imagined the 17/18 squad downing tools in the second half of the season.

Did they down tools or was it just the end of an era or us just having a rough few months. Wenger himself wanted to leave 18 months earlier.

It’s hard to read too much into the last season of Wenger. Everything was in the air.

 

[A_G]

Did they down tools or was it just the end of an era or us just having a rough few months. Wenger himself wanted to leave 18 months earlier.

It’s hard to read too much into the last season of Wenger. Everything was in the air.

The amount of leaks coming out would suggest it was the first one.

 

[Rimaal]

I’m saying he gave them freedom and autonomy. The fact that Mertesacker and Arteta were in charge of collecting fines proves this. I consider that a positive trait of his management even if the players took the piss in the end, that’s on them not him.

A positive trait that fostered a rotten culture? That doesn't make sense, you're not making sense. The more you try to dig yourself out the less sense you make.

It's time for you to reflect on your posts of the past couple of days, and reconsider.

 

[DJ_Markstar]

Mari wasn’t seen as good enough for the role he was brought in for. Him and Runnarson (wiped him from my memory) are literally failed transfers.

Cedric fair enough, club seem happy with him as a back-up and he wouldn’t be much of a problem if Tomi stays fit.

I’ll give Tomi another season, maybe this is just a freak run of injuries in his first season. I’m not as convinced by him as most when he’s fit though. Think he’s just ‘good’.

White is questionable because there’s a lot of debate on how good he actually is. I think he’s decent personally but 50M on him while loaning Saliba out for personal reasons will always be a questionable transfer.

I don’t think the transfer success rate is that good, the duds have been cheap and easy to get rid of and we got very, very, very lucky with Willian walking away from 20 million. The talent ID is not great but it’s trending upwards I’ll admit that.


If the club are in support of this then I guess I don’t mind either. I’ve always thought this spending is short term to get to the CL but if this is just what it is now then that’s fine.
I’ll always feel in the back of the the mind that somebody else could do better with the same money but no complaints if he spends his way up the table and stays there.

Hold up, did we just have a polite disagreement without calling each other ****tards and dozy ****s. Half the posters here could learn a thing or two

I agree with you on the Saliba situtation, both in isolation and in context of the White 50m spend. I think Arteta just needs to give the lad game time this season to see if he sinks or swims, there's clear ability there.

 

[A_G]

A positive trait that fostered a rotten culture? That doesn't make sense, you're not making sense. The more you try to dig yourself out the less sense you make.

It's time for you to reflect on your posts of the past couple of days, and reconsider.

Wenger giving his players freedom was one of his biggest strengths, Patrick Vieira spoke about this on his documentary with Roy Keane. The rotten culture came because the new generation of players weren’t built like Vieira, Henry etc. and they took advantage of the autonomy they were given.

 

[Tir Na Nog]

Did they down tools or was it just the end of an era or us just having a rough few months. Wenger himself wanted to leave 18 months earlier.

It’s hard to read too much into the last season of Wenger. Everything was in the air.

The banners and protests didn't help things either. I think the rotten culture is in the fanbase tbh.

 

[Entropics]

Hold up, did we just have a polite disagreement without calling each other ****tards and dozy ****s. Half the posters here could learn a thing or two

I agree with you on the Saliba situtation, both in isolation and in context of the White 50m spend. I think Arteta just needs to give the lad game time this season to see if he sinks or swims, there's clear ability there.

It's not the forum you knew more than a decade ago, the culture wars are now a staple of this place.

 

[GDeep™]

Wenger giving his players freedom was one of his biggest strengths, Patrick Vieira spoke about this on his documentary with Roy Keane. The rotten culture came because the new generation of players weren’t built like Vieira, Henry etc. and they took advantage of the autonomy they were given.

This is what I mean, you’re pulling this stuff from the sky.

 

[Rimaal]

Wenger giving his players freedom was one of his biggest strengths, Patrick Vieira spoke about this on his documentary with Roy Keane. The rotten culture came because the new generation of players weren’t built like Vieira, Henry etc. and they took advantage of the autonomy they were given.

Oh I see. So, according to you, when a class of students becomes undisciplined and fails the subject it has absolutely nothing to do with the teacher. Or when employees of a shop continually slack off and pinch stock from the shop to sell on the street, it has nothing to do with the shop manager. Or when your kid smokes marijuana in his room every evening for a year unhindered, it has nothing to do with the your parenting skills.


Like I said, silly arguments that make no sense. There is no absolving Wenger from responsibility here, not if you accuse him of having a rotten dressing room. He was in charge, the buck stops with him.

Just stop. You are done.

 

[Rex Stone]

Just came across a Sid Lowe Guardian interview with Lauren from 2017. It's titled Lauren : How I rose from humble beginnings to an Arsenal 'Invincible'




Strong characters, personalities that had an immense self drive to succeed and win. Elite mentalities to a man. Arsène being hands off with these guys was absolutely fine. They didn't need motivating or having the law laid down to them. They would police themselves.

People will say 'Well they're exceptionally talented players, that's what made them so good' But with the greatest respect the likes of Lauren, Keown, Freddie weren't the most naturally gifted players ever but they became exceptional through their mentalities and desire to win and succeed. That's down to their personalities.

See this is an interesting point and you make good points but I disagree overall.

Think football is a simple game and if you want to win you need world class players above anything.

SAF said in his book every season he wanted a top class goalkeeper and striker and he’d figure out the rest.

I don’t think guys he had like John O’Shea or Darren Fletcher were necessarily “winners” compared to Coquelin or Monreal.

The issue was they just had better players in key positions.

This is just the icing on the cake. Alexis the guy that Hector thought wanted to win 'Too much' is the one Lauren thinks could have made it in the 'Invincibles' not just because of his talent but because of his mentality.

That Arsenal squad around 2017 when Alexis left couldn't have coped with players of the mentality and drive and will to win of the Invincibles era.

This is the stuff I'm talking about when it comes to culture in the dressing room. A lot of it is very hard to define. No one player made the Invincibles such monsters mentality wise, it was collective personalities and how they meshed together and lifted each other up that made those guys so, so special. But that elite culture was there in spades.

Controversial take but Alexis wasn’t a world class player because you couldn’t win the biggest honours with him as your main man.

He wanted to win his way with his crazy solo pressing which looks good to fans but is just going against team instructions.

Key point was that at Barcelona he was a bit part player and once they signed him he threw their balance off. He needed the majority of play to run through him and Guardiola then Tito got frustrated with him.

Also telling that for a major “winner” they couldn’t get it done with him in the team but once they upgraded to Neymar who was a world class player they immediately won the CL.

 

[GDeep™]

See this is an interesting point and you make good points but I disagree overall.

Think football is a simple game and if you want to win you need world class players above anything.

SAF said in his book every season he wanted a top class goalkeeper and striker and he’d figure out the rest.

I don’t think guys he had like John O’Shea or Darren Fletcher were necessarily “winners” compared to Coquelin or Monreal.

The issue was they just had better players in key positions.





Controversial take but Alexis wasn’t a world class player because you couldn’t win the biggest honours with him as your main man.

He wanted to win his way by doing which looks good to fans but is just going against team instructions.

Key point was that at Barcelona he was a bit part player and once they signed him he threw their balance off. He needed the majority of play to run through him and Guardiola then Tito got frustrated with him.

Also telling that for a major “winner” they couldn’t get it done with him in the team but once they upgraded to Neymar who was a world class player they immediately won the CL.

Superb posting this. 10/10.

 

[Rex Stone]

Superb posting this. 10/10.

Been on my back recently so appreciated g

 

[GDeep™]

Been on my back recently so appreciated g

I have this thing where I pick 1 guy and constantly go at them for abit.

 

[DJ_Markstar]

It's not the forum you knew more than a decade ago, the culture wars are now a staple of this place.

I learned that very quickly. What a shame.

 

[Kav]

I don’t want the arteta fans to think that I am saying that he hasn’t done anything positive.

However the talk about cultural changes and impact as evidence of his efforts is a bit of stretch when there are more important things to discuss like the football (whether that is good or bad is another discussion ).

We really haven’t discussed his football philosophy as yet.

 

[Kav]

The amount of leaks coming out would suggest it was the first one.

The leaks existed loooooong after Wenger so that’s not something that can actually be attributed to his management. History tells us that others were feeding the press. Some of whom have left the club, players and executives.

 

[A_G]

Oh I see. So, according to you, when a class of students becomes undisciplined and fails the subject it has absolutely nothing to do with the teacher. Or when employees of a shop continually slack off and pinch stock from the shop to sell on the street, it has nothing to do with the shop manager. Or when your kid smokes marijuana in his room every evening for a year unhindered, it has nothing to do with the your parenting skills.


Like I said, silly arguments that make no sense. There is no absolving Wenger from responsibility here, not if you accuse him of having a rotten dressing room. He was in charge, the buck stops with him.

Just stop. You are done.

Wenger’s earlier teams policed themselves, players like Vieira and Ray Parlour have said as much. That worked with a certain generation of players, but not the latter years Emirates group. It doesn’t meant Wenger can’t man-manage, Vieira said as well that the trust he put in players was simultaneously his biggest strength and weakness.

If players take advantage of that freedom it’s their problem, not the manager.

 

[A_G]

The leaks existed loooooong after Wenger so that’s not something that can actually be attributed to his management. History tells us that others were feeding the press. Some of whom have left the club, players and executives.

I’m saying the leaks gave the impression of a broken dressing room. The fact that leaks continued afterwards is irrelevant because 1) I never blamed Wenger for them and 2)they happen at every club.