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Raphinha

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El Duderino

That's, like, your opinion, man.
Moderator
The fact you are using statistics to compare them shows that you do not understand the debate. It literally has to be an eye test.

No player has displayed the physicality, skill, speed, dribbling ability and two footedness of R9. Genuinely, the next closest player is Ronaldinho.

Is there a statistic for Ronaldinho assisting with his back for Guily to go 1v1 vs the keeper? No it just counts towards an XA stat. What about when he catches the ball on his chest and runs between two players. Or how about what he is constantly flicking the ball over defenders heads, doing kick ups like it's a joke. Statistics do not quantify Ronaldinho just as much as they do not for R9. The guy did stopovers to get around keepers. Flip flaps on the touchline to evade defenders. He was absolutely incredible. Henry was a fantastic player, but not on R9s level.

It literally comes down to the type of player you prefer. Both were amazing, but bringing stats to a discussion like this is like trying to debate who was better between Messi and Cristiano.

You pull an xG stat or something of the sort to try and prove a point between who's the better of the two and your mates would laugh you off the park.
 

Badger_Revenge

Active Member
So, it really seems like Leeds wants this resolved quick, but they really want a large fee. Raphinha's camp would like to see the Barca situation get resolved first, so would prefer delay. Other clubs are sniffing about.

I still give this only a 60:40 chance despite the confidence from Arsenal. Too many things could go wrong despite the prep.
 

Yousif Arsenal

On Vinai's payroll & misses 4th place trophy 🏆
Trusted ⭐

After G.Jesus deal done Arsenal will accelerate the negotiations to close Raphinha deal
 

Batman

Head of the Wayne foundation for benching Nketiah

Country: USA

Player:Saliba
Not for me and thats hard for me to say as a big R9 fan. I think we look back on him with nostalgia and through the eyes of a kid, whereas Messi, most of us have witnessed him as an adult. You'll always remember the player you watched as a kid more fondly.

Messi is a freak. Everything about him, the goals, the passing, the dribbling, the ridiculous amount of free kicks he has scored, the big moment goals.
Big moment goals you say? R9 scored twice in a World Cup Final to lift a trophy that Messi will never touch after the top 2 knee specialists on earth told him his career was probably over. Messi will never in his life score a bigger goal than the 2 R9 scored with everything on the line in 2002. Messi has a whopping 6 goals and 5 assists in 18 World Cup matches and has gone on 6 and 7 game goalless droughts in that tournament. R9 has 15 goals and 3 assists in 19 World Cup matches. 18 goal contributions in 19 matches in the most important football tournament there is and unlike Messi he scored his goals after the group stage when the pressure was on him. Messi is a wonderful player but the reality is that he is not the same player outside of the Barca cocoon. He's been pitiful more often than not for Argentina when they've really needed him to be Messi and two little Mickey Mouse trophies don't change that. He was also absolutely dreadful for PSG last season in a joke league with statistically nearly the worst conversation rate of any player in France. Think about that. These are inescapable facts and if you want to speak about nostalgia, ask yourself why every excuse under the sun is made for his failings because of what he did more than half a decade ago in the CL. Everyone else in the GOAT discussion turned up for their country in the World Cup. Leo hasn't and so I don't want to hear about big moments. Diego, Pele and R9 are clear in that regard.
 

Heavy Duty Rom

Outdated Tweets Merchant
Big moment goals you say? R9 scored twice in a World Cup Final to lift a trophy that Messi will never touch after the top 2 knee specialists on earth told him his career was probably over. Messi will never in his life score a bigger goal than the 2 R9 scored with everything on the line in 2002. Messi has a whopping 6 goals and 5 assists in 18 World Cup matches and has gone on 6 and 7 game goalless droughts in that tournament. R9 has 15 goals and 3 assists in 19 World Cup matches. 18 goal contributions in 19 matches in the most important football tournament there is and unlike Messi he scored his goals after the group stage when the pressure was on him. Messi is a wonderful player but the reality is that he is not the same player outside of the Barca cocoon. He's been pitiful more often than not for Argentina when they've really needed him to be Messi and two little Mickey Mouse trophies don't change that. He was also absolutely dreadful for PSG last season in a joke league with statistically nearly the worst conversation rate of any player in France. Think about that. These are inescapable facts and if you want to speak about nostalgia, ask yourself why every excuse under the sun is made for his failings because of what he did more than half a decade ago in the CL. Everyone else in the GOAT discussion turned up for their country in the World Cup. Leo hasn't and so I don't want to hear about big moments. Diego, Pele and R9 are clear in that regard.
Messi was actually good in that final vs Germany. He didn't have a Romario or a Ronaldinho or a Rivaldo etc... He had Higuain.

But we'll just agree to disagree here. R9 is my favourite ever player outside of Arsenal, but, for me, Messi is the greatest of all time.
 

tap-in

Nothing Wrong With Me
Nah, we've got money and want the player. We'll pay what they're asking if that's the only way to do the deal.

Agreed. I think there comes a time when you have to learn from your mistakes, and we've made plenty. If we want him why risk missing out for the sake of £10m or even £20m. We've lost a hell of a lot more in recent years!
 
Spending 60 million on Raphina when we have pretty much the same type of winger who likes to cut in with his left foot eg Saka/ Pepe feels like when we spent 50million on Ben white when we had Saliba/ Gabriel. Is it really necessary? Is it an improvement? Jury's out on that. I think in Artetas set up Raphina and Pepe will pretty much end up the same way. On the bench they are basically the same player and we will see that if he is signed IMHO.
 

Batman

Head of the Wayne foundation for benching Nketiah

Country: USA

Player:Saliba
Messi was actually good in that final vs Germany. He didn't have a Romario or a Ronaldinho or a Rivaldo etc... He had Higuain.

But we'll just agree to disagree here. R9 is my favourite ever player outside of Arsenal, but, for me, Messi is the greatest of all time.
DiMaria got them to the final and their defense kept a Germany who had just scored 7 against Brazil quiet for 112 minutes, something that Messi apologists always ignore. The greatest player in history should be able to elevate a decent team, especially in a one off. Maradona would have. But yes, we can agree to disagree.
 
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