Amadou Onana

[drippin]

And how about when we extended his loan and he was trash for a whole season?

Ceballos & consistency in the same sentence is some good humour. Nice one from the Great Mitcho.

 

[2Smokeyy]

The highlight of his career at Arsenal:

Our fans were getting gassed about this lad just spinning to blind alleys.

 

[TakeChillPill]

I heard LeBron James said he has great potential.

 

[2Smokeyy]

I heard LeBron James said he has great potential.

Westbrick-esque. LeBron’s talent ID is in the mud.

 

[Red London]

Ceballos’ performance against Burnley was quite sexy to be fair, and then he did contribute to that FA cup win with some good form and solidity.

He was a nightmare the next season though.

 

[Trilly]

https://fbref.com/en/jugadores/828657ff/Amadou-Onana

Ufff just had a look at his FBref, confirms what his youtube video looked like, just your typical destroyer that really has no place whatsoever in our style of play or in any top side's midfield. Perhaps Lille's playing style has an effect there, don't know what kind of style they play, but still, poor man's Bissouma profile in Ligue 1 is not promising at all. Much prefer to spend our time developing Lokonga at the 6, a player who at least has the potential to be starter level at the 6...

Lokonga the far more interesting prospect: https://fbref.com/en/jugadores/1b4f1169/Albert-Sambi-Lokonga

Need to put an end to A-M's obsession with incredibly limited destroyers. Look around the world and no top side uses these players--the profile of good destroyers like Casemiro, Fabinho, and Kante have no comparison, they have never had anything like the passing involvement or lack thereof that people like this or Bissouma do. The absolute god level of this type of player, N'Didi, is still at Leicester.

Unless he develops as a player and all of this changes.

I wouldn’t rule out a 20yo talented limited player from using their talent to improve their their game over time. We see it with all the top players, why couldn’t we be seeing that with him?

I don’t actually know anything about this player but his physical profile is nuts, could be worth a cheap punt if they think the talent is there.

 

[Heavy Duty Rom]

Unless he develops as a player and all of this changes.

I wouldn’t rule out a 20yo talented limited player from using their talent to improve their their game over time. We see it with all the top players, why couldn’t we be seeing that with him?

I don’t actually know anything about this player but his physical profile is nuts, could be worth a cheap punt if they think the talent is there.

Didn't i bury you enough yesterday?

 

[Mitch]

Ceballos & consistency in the same sentence is some good humour. Nice one from the Great Mitcho.

You can't re-write history. Go on Ceballos thread during the time the PL resumed untill the end of season and played a joy part of us winning the FA Cup with his peformances.

The following season Yes he was no where near the level he was then.

 

[Big Poppa]

I don't think we had much chance or interest in Bissouma.

Bissouma gets now UCL and Sp**s can basically promise him a starting spot over their midfield players. Here he would have Partey in front of him.

We don't have two important midfield players going to AFCON in the future.

We definitely had a chance. Interest, probably not.

I don’t think he signed for them because he’s being promised starts. A chunky pay rise, a world class coach and CL football are all things he had no hope of at Brighton. Not a hard sell tbh.

Anyway it’s moot as we weren’t in for him. My point was more that we are using players like Lokonga and Partey as a 6 when I think we can actually use them as an 8, if we have a more physical, dynamic, mobile 6.

We rely so much on Partey for our ball progression that I think expecting him to also be our primary physical defensive pivot is putting too much load on him.

 

[OnlyOne]

Didn't i bury you enough yesterday?

Where can I find this chief?

 

[A_G]

Where can I find this chief?

Aaron Hickey

Why is this MF thread moving again? Please tell me this move isn't back on!?

arsenal-mania.com

 

[Heavy Duty Rom]

Where can I find this chief?

Hickey thread, page 19, time of death 1:07pm

 

[OnlyOne]

H

Hickey thread, page 19, time of death 1:07pm

Gotta back my boy @Trilly here and say he was only clowning, he knows ball.

 

[Heavy Duty Rom]

Gotta back my boy @Trilly here and say he was only clowning, he knows ball.

Not if he's backing this tree Onana.

 

[OnlyOne]

Not if he's backing this tree Onana.

Not sure @Trilly said anything wrong? He's a young player with brilliant physical attributes and can develop their game over time. I think he's spot on.

 

[Heavy Duty Rom]

Not sure @Trilly said anything wrong? He's a young player with brilliant physical attributes and can develop their game over time. I think he's spot on.

Get a room.

 

[AbouCuéllar]

Unless he develops as a player and all of this changes.

I wouldn’t rule out a 20yo talented limited player from using their talent to improve their their game over time. We see it with all the top players, why couldn’t we be seeing that with him?

I don’t actually know anything about this player but his physical profile is nuts, could be worth a cheap punt if they think the talent is there.

There is simply no comparison between Kanté and the profile of players like this and Bissouma.

I'll say it again, players this uninvolved in possession is a huge red flag, like with Willock when I made the argument that he just doesn't have the potential to play as a midfielder at Arsenal, they are hidden for a reason, and it's really a profile that just isn't suitable at all for the top level.

Onana attempted 42 passes per game (42nd percentile), with 53.53 touches per game (29th percentile), and 2.95 progressive passes (23rd percentile).

In Kanté's season most uninvolved in possession, he attempted 59.3 passes (69th percentile), with 70.99 touches per game (70th percentile), and 3.75 progressive passes (36th). *

*unfortunately data pre 17-18, from when he was at Caen as a younger player here isn't available

Fabinho at 23 in in Ligue 1 for Monaco:

58.12 passes attempted (79th percentile), 67.88 touches (75th), and 5.32 progressive passes (79th percentile).

Unfortunately I can't think of a player in the destroyer's role who was at the age of Onana post 2017-18, I guess you could compare to Tchouameni's age 19 season, for example:

54.54 (70th), 5.44 (82nd), 64.34 (59th)

I just don't think there's such scope for players so limited and uninvolved in possession to develop into much. It's less provable in Onana's case where, despite his even weaker profile in involvement than Bissouma's, there's at least the confounding variables of team set-up, age, and rawness, but yeah, to see a player that uninvolved and absent in possession is really a massive red flag, and you can pretty much safely discard them just with a look at their stats. None of the few destroyers successful at the top level have an even somewhat similar profile.

In short, players like Bissouma and Onana lack basic midfield skills that are essential if you want to play in the midfield at a high level team: a) personality to get on the ball and not be a hidden man in possession, often leaving you like playing with a man less in possession AND/OR b) quality on the ball, so that their managers are forced to hide them to an extreme extent. a) and b) often go together of course.

 

[drippin]

There is simply no comparison between Kanté and the profile of players like this and Bissouma.

I'll say it again, players this uninvolved in possession is a huge red flag, like with Willock when I made the argument that he just doesn't have the potential to play as a midfielder at Arsenal, they are hidden for a reason, and it's really a profile that just isn't suitable at all for the top level.

Onana attempted 42 passes per game (42nd percentile), with 53.53 touches per game (29th percentile), and 2.95 progressive passes (23rd percentile).

In Kanté's season most uninvolved in possession, he attempted 59.3 passes (69th percentile), with 70.99 touches per game (70th percentile), and 3.75 progressive passes (36th). *

*unfortunately data pre 17-18, from when he was at Caen as a younger player here isn't available

Fabinho at 23 in in Ligue 1 for Monaco:

58.12 passes attempted (79th percentile), 67.88 touches (75th), and 5.32 progressive passes (79th percentile).

Unfortunately I can't think of a player in the destroyer's role who was at the age of Onana post 2017-18, I guess you could compare to Tchouameni's age 19 season, for example:

54.54 (70th), 5.44 (82nd), 64.34 (59th)

I just don't think there's such scope for players so limited and uninvolved in possession to develop into much. It's less provable in Onana's case where, despite his even weaker profile in involvement than Bissouma's, there's at least the confounding variables of team set-up, age, and rawness, but yeah, to see a player that uninvolved and absent in possession is really a massive red flag, and you can pretty much safely discard them just with a look at their stats. None of the few destroyers successful at the top level have an even somewhat similar profile.

In short, players like Bissouma and Onana lack basic midfield skills that are essential if you want to play in the midfield at a high level team: a) personality to get on the ball and not be a hidden man in possession, often leaving you like playing with a man less in possession AND/OR b) quality on the ball, so that their managers are forced to hide them to an extreme extent. a) and b) often go together of course.

Do you think it's the same if you compare stats of a 20 year old midfielder to a 23 year old midfielder, when the other plays for a team that finished 10th, while the other played for a team that finished top 3 every year in Monaco? And is that season you compare to the title winning season?

Can Onana improve those stats in the future, in a better team? 20 years old for a midfielder is very young.

 

[AbouCuéllar]

Do you think it's the same if you compare stats of a 20 year old midfielder to a 23 year old midfielder, when the other plays for a team that finished 10th, while the other played for a team that finished top 3 every year in Monaco? And is that season you compare to the title winning season?

Can Onana improve those stats in the future, in a better team? 20 years old for a midfielder is very young.

Yeah, like I said, there isn't data available on those on fbref, pre 2017-18, and admit that the analysis is limited by this.

I just don't think there's such scope for players so limited and uninvolved in possession to develop into much. It's less provable in Onana's case where, despite his even weaker profile in involvement than Bissouma's, there's at least the confounding variables of team set-up, age, and rawness, but yeah, to see a player that uninvolved and absent in possession is really a massive red flag

But I'm skeptical that there can be that much evolution in a player's general profile. Yves attempted 59.84 passes (80th percentile) at Lille in his age 20 season, which then went down to 37.4, 44.4, 48.4, and 50.3 in the premier league. Not sure what to make of that...on the one hand Yves was more involved than Tchouameni at age 19, on the other hand it shows the difference in level between Ligue 1 in how he's adapted, only in 4 years to get himself to a very bleak for a CM 53rd percentile level after 4 years.

I guess the conservative takeaway would be: there is definite room and precedent for significant evolution in Onana's game in possession, but he is coming from an extremely low bar, and any likely gains could be offset by the change in league.

Whoscored has Fabinho at 46.9 passes completed (39 in his age 19, when he was 10 months younger than Onana) in his age 20 season (just realised Onana's season last was really his age 20 season, as he turned 20 on aug 16), and Onana's at 41.1, so, that gives perhaps some hope for Onana.

 

[Rasmi]

I love people think they can determine exactly how good a player is based on date when we seen even top managers who watched players train everyday let them go and we see that player reach a level they didn’t expect

As far as this kid. He has had massive rise in quick time. 2 years ago he was playing U19 football. 1 year ago he was in bundesliga 2. Lille brings him over and at 19 he becomes a starter for them playing 43 games. 9 in the champions league. He is far ahead of the players being mentioned like kante, Fabinho etc at 20. Doesn’t mean he will be better. All I’m gonna say if Arsenal ever is gonna become elite club. It will be through discovering young talents before they explode. Because after they do they will not choose Arsenal.

Arteta extended both xhaka and el neny. That’s the senior players he choose to put his faith on. It doesn’t mean we don’t have space for a young midfielder.