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Charlie Patino: No Swan Song Afterall

AbouCuéllar

AbouCuéllar

Author of A-M essays 📚
Idiotologue said:
Doesn't have the physical profile or the defensive attributes required in a #6. He clearly projects as a #8 going forward imo.
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Perhaps. Seriously limits his potential in that case. He came through the academy often playing as a 6. Busquets showed that you don’t have to necessarily be physically robust to be effective in that position. But I take the point that Busquets is a special case and that that kind of positional sense is rare to find. I was hoping Patiño might have it, though.
 
G

Geofranco

Would let Saka date his daughter

Player:Saka
AbouCuéllar said:
Perhaps. Seriously limits his potential in that case. He came through the academy often playing as a 6. Busquets showed that you don’t have to necessarily be physically robust to be effective in that position. But I take the point that Busquets is a special case and that that kind of positional sense is rare to find. I was hoping Patiño might have it, though.
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Don't see how it limits his potential. Plus he could start out as an 8 and grow into the role of a 6. Just feel like that 6 role is pretty difficult to play for a young midfielder. I believe Patino's positioning is already pretty good, but he is going to be a liability off ball on defense at this point. He has a pretty good passing range though and I have seen him completely control the tempo of games at U23 level when he is on form.
 
AbouCuéllar

AbouCuéllar

Author of A-M essays 📚
Geofranco said:
Don't see how it limits his potential.
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Well, quite simply there are very few controller 6s in the game, it's a really rare and precious commodity. Controllers who operate in a double pivot and have less defensive responsibility are much less rare, and anyways they have to be really, really elite in possession (see: Kroos) if they don't influence that much in the final third (which Patiño doesn't really profile to do) to be an asset as an 8 at the top level, which means there will be an extremely high bar for his quality in possession for him to be a success here...so you can see why I think it limits a bit his potential / possibilities.
Geofranco said:
Plus he could start out as an 8 and grow into the role of a 6. Just feel like that 6 role is pretty difficult to play for a young midfielder. I believe Patino's positioning is already pretty good, but he is going to be a liability off ball on defense at this point.
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Yeah, that would be my hope, here I agree, and take your point.
Geofranco said:
He has a pretty good passing range though and I have seen him completely control the tempo of games at U23 level when he is on form.
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Yeah, which is why, ultimately, I would see him as a 6. But I guess I was kinda hoping he was born for this position like Busquets or Rodri (less similar, as he's more physically able) and could play it from the start.
 
Ibadan

Ibadan

Thread Bump Police
AbouCuéllar said:
Well, quite simply there are very few controller 6s in the game, it's a really rare and precious commodity. Controllers who operate in a double pivot and have less defensive responsibility are much less rare, and anyways they have to be really, really elite in possession (see: Kroos) if they don't influence that much in the final third (which Patiño doesn't really profile to do) to be an asset as an 8 at the top level, which means there will be an extremely high bar for his quality in possession for him to be a success here...so you can see why I think it limits a bit his potential / possibilities.

Yeah, that would be my hope, here I agree, and take your point.

Yeah, which is why, ultimately, I would see him as a 6. But I guess I was kinda hoping he was born for this position like Busquets or Rodri (less similar, as he's more physically able) and could play it from the start.
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Great reading from both of you. And I agree with you Abou, long term - I hope to see Patino develop as an exceptional single pivot. But I don't think we should underestimate how difficult it will be for him to get there.

When I was rewatching Pep's first season coaching Barca, I was struck by how uncommon it was to have 20 year old Busquets playing in midfield with two creative midfielders ahead of him, (whether that was with Xavi and Iniesta or their deputy in Hleb). When Busquets did play, he was more likely to be paired with Keita or Yaya Toure, providing a platform for Xavi to control the game.

It wasn't until the next season season we'd see Busquets entrusted as lone pivot in midfield.

It's incredibly difficult to play as a lone 6, and we can't underestimate how long it will take Patino to get there. I'm all for keeping him around the club for the next 2-4 years, giving him more and more game time whilst he develops.

We should also not undervalue the physical edge needed in midfield. Keita and Toure were superb technicians, but they were also blessed with running power, potent ballstriking, durability, thick thighs and calves, and hip mobility. Patino doesn't have these qualities. He will need Yakubu or Mo next to him to hold his hand for the foreseeable future.

@Geofranco
 
AbouCuéllar

AbouCuéllar

Author of A-M essays 📚
Ibadan said:
When I was rewatching Pep's first season coaching Barca, I was struck by how uncommon it was to have 20 year old Busquets playing in midfield with two creative midfielders ahead of him, (whether that was with Xavi and Iniesta or their deputy in Hleb). When Busquets did play, he was more likely to be paired with Keita or Yaya Toure, providing a platform for Xavi to control the game.
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Yeah, very good point. And Busquets is such a rarity, it might be a bit unrealistic to lay this out as a development goal for any player, since players like him who have been able to play that role with his physical characteristics at a young age you can pretty much count with...one finger.

Won't stop me from hoping, though. Hah...I wanted Guendouzi to be developed that way under Arteta too, before their falling out. What can I say, that type of player as a 6 I just feel adds so much value to a team.

And Rodri, the only other somewhat similar example I could think of, of course is much more gifted physically, and also had his difficulties adjusting to being a lone 6 at City at the top level (at Atléti always in a double pivot and in a more defensive scheme, Villarreal I can't remember honestly, think it was with Trigueros? but not quite top level there, and not as much exigency as in a top team).

Ibadan said:
He will need Yakubu or Mo next to him to hold his hand for the foreseeable future.
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But yeah, you're right about this. I guess given this, we should definitely prioritise Lokonga's development at 6 and look for a loan for Patiño this season.
 
DJ_Markstar

DJ_Markstar

Based and Artetapilled

Player:Martinelli
Rasmi said:
Yeah for youngsters it comes down to manager. Arteta is a conservative manager who don’t like to take gamble on youth. I think last season was more of him realising youth gives him time and it was to save his job rather than being a progressive manager
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I completely agree, even when Arteta does something good its best to twist it into a negative anyway, this is a very healthy mindset.

In other news, I just stubbed my toe. **** Teta.
 
Hunta

Hunta

Established Member
Trusted ⭐

Country: England
Blackpool fans impressed with his 20 min cameo.

Patino !!!!!!

Why the fcuk didn't he start Best player on the pitch when he came on even though the game was lost Seriously if we have a player whos this good on the ball he has to start games Virtue not good enough and Fiorini kept giving the ball away Dougall or Connolly as the holder please with Patino...
avftt.co.uk
 
Gooner416

Gooner416

Master of Stonks
Trusted ⭐

Country: Canada
Hunta said:
Blackpool fans impressed with his 20 min cameo.

Patino !!!!!!

Why the fcuk didn't he start Best player on the pitch when he came on even though the game was lost Seriously if we have a player whos this good on the ball he has to start games Virtue not good enough and Fiorini kept giving the ball away Dougall or Connolly as the holder please with Patino...
avftt.co.uk
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Seeing other supporter forums always reminds me what top top quality work @albakos has done.
 
Penn_

Penn_

Established Member
Trusted ⭐
Expected him to look a little more nervous but was far more composed than any of his team mates. If that’s a baseline then he’ll be starter before long.

Primed to take Partey’s spot next season.
 
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