Mikel Arteta: Aston La Vista To The Title?

[Jury]

You also speculated the dressing room would have been chaotic during the season we finished 2nd tbf, not really Wengers last days. You don't finish 2nd in a league as tough as the PL, with your best midfielder out early without a totally united dressing room. All the players had a total respect for the manager and were clearly on friendly terms.

I don’t know how you can use words like “clearly” here. Ramsey, Özil and Alexis among others have all had rumours going around about them. We know there were most probably damaging cliques too. Wenger’s job would have been much harder on a day-to-day basis in my opinion.

But no, you don’t need a totally united dressing room to win anything let alone finish runners up to Leicester. That’s quite speculative and there’s a lot of evidence in football to the contrary. Chances are you absolutely won’t have a united dressing room if the club is in the ****ter though.

My post was more to do with dealing with the characters that Wenger had to deal with more than the results we got with them anyway. I didn’t want to spark a debate about it. I just think having a fly on the wall documentary back then would’ve been far more interesting and revealing than this one and would have put whatever people are seeing now in AON in good perspective.

 

[Big Poppa]

If the supposed búms we had under Emery could half arse it and finish on 70 points and reach a European final, but Micky's team of hard workers can't even match that, then what does that say about the latter?

Agree.

We're getting into ideology wars here when all that really matters is the ability to get the best out of the players at your disposal.

Arteta's come from a certain culture at Man City that he's trying to recreate at Arsenal, and I get that because they created a world class winning environment. However, most importantly, they made the right signings at the right times for the right price at a club that was already winning.

He needs a more flexible approach otherwise player turnover could disrupt his own progress. He would struggle with this current approach if he was working with more experienced players who come from big clubs outside of one he knows.

Some players simply don't train well but they're absolute animals on match day. Tevez was a notorious example of that and there are many many others.

 

[Slug457]

Ramsey, Özil and Alexis among others have all had rumours going around about them.

In regards to what, contract situations? If so I don't think that is relevant to the general dressing room situation. The players all seemed to get along and be totally united every time they appeared together in training/social media. Rallied together in the protest during the Norwich game if I recall, if there was a disunity that was the time to demonstrate it, instead the players all fist pumped wildly as they scored and celebrated together as a collective.

But no, you don’t need a totally united dressing room to win anything let alone finish runners up to Leicester.

Fair enough, not need, but generally speaking teams that do not have united dressing rooms don't finish 2nd in a league as tough as the EPL, bar the Chelseas/Citys who just throw silly money at it which means the superior quality of the players trumps any disunity (although Chelsea finished a terrible 10th in our 2nd season so it is possible). And yes we finished behind Leicester which must always be a disappointment for a club our size, but they only lost three games all season, had some of the best players in the world/league in their respective positions (Kante, Mahrez, Vardys), and no Europe/injuries. If a freak happens this season and a Wolves or something win it and we finish 2nd we'll all feel a disappointment but 2nd is ultimately 2nd, and we will never get 2nd with disunity.

I just think having a fly on the wall documentary back then would’ve been far more interesting and revealing than this one and would have put whatever people are seeing now in AON in good perspective.

I think Wengers final season absolutely, to see how Wenger and the players coped and reacted to what was happening, the 2nd season in my view would be much like last, we had the chance to get the "All" and ultimately only got a decent something in 2nd, not pretty much nothing in 5th but still not the all. Would have been very little drama in my view. Not that Weng would ever allow cameras in the dressing rooms and what have you

 

[db10_therza]

Strange though, Arteta's having to spend the most of any team in Europe and took his 3rd season to get back to what Unai acheived with players arsing about in one season. Very odd.

This is such a tired and short termist way of looking at things. With things like transfers, think instead of whether it increases or decreases the probability of our net enterprise value being higher or lower in 5 years time. This is why and how arteta managed to get josh to open the purse strings. He has a long term vision. You can of course argue the merits (or lack thereof) of the vision but at least it’s there. Emery had none. He was a pure coach, he needed others around him and bringing in “others” increases the risk of failure because there’s always a risk that one of them is a turd (turned out most of them were). Emery’s trajectory spoke for itself… Artetas trajectory is upwards, albeit very slowly. You seem to be annoyed that arteta has money to spend, are you written into Stan’s will or sth?

 

[Tir Na Nog]

I think as Arteta gets older he will realise he has to be a tad more compromising, especially if he's to fulfill the potential he supposedly has. You walk into Bara, Real, PSG, etc and you mightn't get the luxury of falling out with several star players and being backed 100% in every decision you make. Not every club has guys like Edu, Vinai and Garlick, or owners who're wrapped around your finger. At a different club those above mightn't have accepted the Auba decision, especially making him train away from the squad and essentially ostracise him. Arteta has a lot of improving to do if he is to go up a level. I think with time, experience and growth he'll realise he'll have to make small compromises.

 

[db10_therza]

Agree.

We're getting into ideology wars here when all that really matters is the ability to get the best out of the players at your disposal.

Arteta's come from a certain culture at Man City that he's trying to recreate at Arsenal, and I get that because they created a world class winning environment. However, most importantly, they made the right signings at the right times for the right price at a club that was already winning.

He needs a more flexible approach otherwise player turnover could disrupt his own progress. He would struggle with this current approach if he was working with more experienced players who come from big clubs outside of one he knows.

Some players simply don't train well but they're absolute animals on match day. Tevez was a notorious example of that and there are many many others.

Nah man. How can you say all that matters is getting the best out of the players at your disposal - is that all Wenger did to take this club to new heights? Get the best out of the players at his disposal?

 

[Trilly]

@GDeep™ with some absolute haymakers on page 3732. @Jury defeated by a unanimous verdict and @Blood on the Tracks looking like he’s been hit by a train.

 

[TornadoTed]

Strange though, Arteta's having to spend the most of any team in Europe and took his 3rd season to get back to what Unai acheived with players arsing about in one season. Very odd.

I think that team was pretty mediocre but had bags of experience throughout the team and players in their prime years, Sokratis, Mkhi, Özil, Auba, Laca, Ramsey, Cech, Koscielny etc. As well as an experienced coach. That team reminds me of Sp**s now, nothing special but all their players are fully developed, both physically and mentally and have a coach that has been there, seen it, done it.

I think our current squad has a far higher ceiling than 2018-19 but they have a lot of developing to do.

 

[db10_therza]

Yeah I stand by it. That's a coach and leader's number one job. Wenger went over and above his call of duty and despite contributing some great things at the beginning, I think both he and the club actually suffered as a result, because he needed more help.

Ok I see what you’re saying. Not sure I agree but I respect it. Even if you forget about all the transfers, the cultural changes wenger made on joining (alcohol, diet etc) were instrumental in our success. And easy to take for granted now as everyone adopted them

 

[Trilly]

Some players simply don't train well but they're absolute animals on match day. Tevez was a notorious example of that and there are many many others.

His non-negotiables simply wouldn’t work at the level we are trying to get back to, that’s part of why I think there’s no point of letting him get there.

Auba was practically a trial run for Arteta on how to handle top class players (bear in mind a lot of top players are worse than Auba who was more cheeky than anything), a trial that he failed miserably.

 

[Big Poppa]

His non-negotiables simply wouldn’t work at the level we are trying to get back to, that’s part of why I think there’s no point of letting him get there.

Auba was practically a trial run for Arteta on how to handle top class players (bear in mind a lot of top players are worse than Auba who was more cheeky than anything), a trial that he failed miserably.

The Auba situation was genuinely sad. The same thing happened with Özil, and I doubt either would've had the same treatment if they weren't on £300k+ a week, approaching the January window.

You're right though, at some stage these young players will grow in pedigree, play regularly for their countries, and be courted by Europe's biggest clubs.

That's when they'll start flexing their muscles when Arteta to lay down the law. Not now.

It's like the parent that tries to pull out a cleaning rota you had as a kid after you've lived away from home as an adult and come back. Just like them though, he'll learn through experience.

 

[db10_therza]

His non-negotiables simply wouldn’t work at the level we are trying to get back to, that’s part of why I think there’s no point of letting him get there.

Auba was practically a trial run for Arteta on how to handle top class players (bear in mind a lot of top players are worse than Auba who was more cheeky than anything), a trial that he failed miserably.

Which of the current crop of city or pool players do you think would not meet his “non negotiables”? The “level” you’re thinking of is from 5 years ago. The game has changed

 

[Oxeki]

His non-negotiables simply wouldn’t work at the level we are trying to get back to, that’s part of why I think there’s no point of letting him get there.

Auba was practically a trial run for Arteta on how to handle top class players (bear in mind a lot of top players are worse than Auba who was more cheeky than anything), a trial that he failed miserably.

It's why I have doubts about him being a top manager at a top club unless of course he learns amd improves his man management. If you ostracize a popular member of the squad or captain at a big club especially if you're a rookie without pedigree, there would be a massive revolt and you'll lose your job.

We've seen players at successful clubs like Chelsea and madrid close ranks when their colleague is being treated bad by the manager.

 

[Blood on the Tracks]

@GDeep™ with some absolute haymakers on page 3732. @Jury defeated by a unanimous verdict and @Blood on the Tracks looking like he’s been hit by a train.

I'm shook ngl.

Arteta should probably should follow your guys takes anyway. Let him turn up for training at 3.57pm as long as he wore cool clothes and had 17m followers on Tiktok etc.

I've heard rumbling that you and your cronies want the starting 11 picked solely on the basis of how well dressed / who's got the most expensive watch.

Gdeep's in the banterweight category ( 6 stone and under) I doubt he could knock out a small fly or Riou.

 

[Jury]

@GDeep™ with some absolute haymakers on page 3732. @Jury defeated by a unanimous verdict and @Blood on the Tracks looking like he’s been hit by a train.

He must be paying you to say this ****. He’s been battered from pillar to post by everyone and anyone as per. I’m actually waiting for a couple of new accounts to rock up just to destroy him and leave like a couple years ago. Man lives in the mud

 

[Oxeki]

 

[albakos]

.... I’m actually waiting for a couple of new accounts to rock up ....

Speaking from your own experience !?

 

[Makingtrax]

I think that team was pretty mediocre but had bags of experience throughout the team and players in their prime years, Sokratis, Mkhi, Özil, Auba, Laca, Ramsey, Cech, Koscielny etc. As well as an experienced coach. That team reminds me of Sp**s now, nothing special but all their players are fully developed, both physically and mentally and have a coach that has been there, seen it, done it.

I think our current squad has a far higher ceiling than 2018-19 but they have a lot of developing to do.

Of course they’ve got a higher ceiling. You’re spot on.

How many managers do you know whose been given the luxury of clearing out nearly all of the previous two manager‘s players, by giving them away if necessary, and even clearing out several of his own poor acquisitions in just 2 and a half years. Investing the most in Europe. They have a massive potential.

If he can’t do better than Unai or Arsène now there’s something grossly wrong with him.

 

[Makingtrax]

This is such a tired and short termist way of looking at things. With things like transfers, think instead of whether it increases or decreases the probability of our net enterprise value being higher or lower in 5 years time. This is why and how arteta managed to get josh to open the purse strings. He has a long term vision. You can of course argue the merits (or lack thereof) of the vision but at least it’s there. Emery had none. He was a pure coach, he needed others around him and bringing in “others” increases the risk of failure because there’s always a risk that one of them is a turd (turned out most of them were). Emery’s trajectory spoke for itself… Artetas trajectory is upwards, albeit very slowly. You seem to be annoyed that arteta has money to spend, are you written into Stan’s will or sth?

It’s brilliant that KSE is out spending the oil clubs, no complaints from me about that. And if this is their long game it’s all good for Arsenal.

But you still need an over performing manager. Wenger was that, Potter is that. So far Arteta has shown no evidence of being that. This should be a title challenging squad, let’s see what happens.

 

[grange]

But you still need an over performing manager. Wenger was that, Potter is that. So far Arteta has shown no evidence of being that. This should be a title challenging squad, let’s see what happens.

Wrong on all accounts. August 2021, this was a 6th place squad and most pundits didn't even believe that and had us finishing lower. You don't have a proven track record of knowing what you're talking about (see: your Ben White comments in his thread) so we will go off the general feel of knowledgeable fans and pundits. The season started with 3 straight losses due to our injuries and covid and they were laughing at us saying we're getting relegated. Even after dumping Auba, we finished 1 point off of 4th place which was disappointing but that was over performing whether you like it or not.

The squad Arteta inherited and had to overturn was an 8th place squad at best so spending money to replace an 8th place squad doesn't mean title expectations are now on the cards because we've out spent everybody. We had to in order to build a competitive squad and get back to CL places.

Potter wouldn't do any better here. You should just stick to waxing poetic over missing Wenger in the appropriate threads.